OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in Literature

[bags27]

All really great poets and prose writers receive many substantial awards on the way to getting a Nobel. Dylan has , to my knowledge, received none of them and had no standing in the literary community.
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Dylan's Pulitzer Prize doesn't count; how about his Oscar, his Kennedy Award, his Grammies?

Great academic scholars of poetry, such as Sir Christopher Ricks and Sir Frank Kermode, have said for decades that Dylan's poetry ranks at or near the top in the world. Courses on Dylan are offered at Harvard University, University of Minnesota, University of Chicago, and Brown University, among others. One of the most important books written on Dylan is by a Pulitzer Prize winning Princeton University history professor.

I recognize that this is a shocking event--pretty much took everyone by surprise. But we humans have a difficult time with change. The Nobel Committee failed, for example, to give the award to James Joyce because his work was so radically different than anything previously. Looking back, it was a massive, massive failure. Joyce is now widely rewarded as the most important literary voice of the entire 20th century. And were we living in the late 19th century, we might well discount the musings of a shy young woman living in Amherst, MA. Fortunately Thomas Wentworth Higginson, an important literary patron of his day, did not, and so we have the poetry of Emily Dickinson, poetry that transcends the ages. No one then, not even Higginson, could possibly have predicted that.

Dylan is 75 and not always in the best of health. When he dies, he's no longer eligible. The Committee certainly appreciated that burden of history.

 

[itsasport]

I thought Obama was an equally stupid choice and was surprised when I went through the list and saw Churchill's name. But he, at least, was a good writer, not a great one.

Concerning the spelling issue, the Nobel winner doesn't spell his own name correctly...it is Zimmerman. I learned that years ago from my stepmother who was a friend of his family and knew him as a child. She had only good things to say about them and him.
I understand the reasoning. My grandmother changed the family name from Fuchs.

On the subject of song writing and poetry. A nephew is a musician and his girlfriend majored in poetry in college. I once asked him if he had ever used her work in his songs. He said no because
good poetry had to be watered down and simplified to be useful as lyrics.

 

[Husky25]

I thought Obama was an equally stupid choice and was surprised when I went through the list and saw Churchill's name. But he, at least, was a good writer, not a great one.

Concerning the spelling issue, the Nobel winner doesn't spell his own name correctly...it is Zimmerman. I learned that years ago from my stepmother who was a friend of his family and knew him as a child. She had only good things to say about them and him.
I understand the reasoning. My grandmother changed the family name from Fuchs.

On the subject of song writing and poetry. A nephew is a musician and his girlfriend majored in poetry in college. I once asked him if he had ever used her work in his songs. He said no because
good poetry had to be watered down and simplified to be useful as lyrics.

Thanks for your opinion, but that is not what I asked. I asked about the Times.

Incidentally, it appears The NYT were puzzled with the Obama selection, but it had little to do with notoriety. The Times moved the goal posts to "condemn" the selection of Dylan as far in the opposite direction as the Nobel Committee did in awarding it.

 

[itsasport]

I thought that Obama's award was equally stupid and reinforces my point about the questionable judgement of the Nobel Committee.

Churchill didn't deserve it either. But it might have been a reward for saving Europe from the book-burning Nazi's.

Has Dylan received any award from the Poetry Society of America, etc. or was he ever the Poet Laureate of America?

 

[8893]

Concerning the spelling issue, the Nobel winner doesn't spell his own name correctly...it is Zimmerman.

That explains your use of "Dylon" how?

Do you have a problem with him changing his name? Let's hear all the other excuses why you don't think he's worthy.

He's been pissing people off since 1962, so your rage is a valuable part of the dynamic.

 

[bags27]

this is fun....

Nobel Committee can't get a hold of Bob Dylan - CNN.com

maybe itsasport will get his wish, and Dylan won't bother to show up

 

[itsasport]

The "o" was simply a typo. The "Zimmerman" was a joke; but, I now remember that some of his family were bothered by the name change.

The Times was only used as the source of the negative opinion in the poetry community. It is not an excuse to state that Dylan never received any of the increasing levels of recognition that would be expected for someone who was regarded highly by fellows in his discipline.

My guess is that the reason that he has not responded to the award is that he has the same respect for great poetry as I do and he knows that the award is not justified. His is probably dumbfounded and a little embarrassed. I doubt he will accept the award personally.

What bothers me is the dumbing down that is occurring; and again, that the Nobel for Literature is seldom awarded for poetry (there should be a separate award) and that there are many more deserving, and that one of them will never receive the recognition he/she deserved.

Perhaps all this will will encourage us, including me, to read more poetry and even buy some.

 

[Husky25]

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Could be worth a Nobel by itself:

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You’d know what a drag it is
To see you

An ode to Joan Biaz
I think I described a poster here is positively 4th Street
I was an early fan and actually saw him perform at the old New Haven Arena.

 

[8893]

Perhaps all this will will encourage us, including me, to read more poetry and even buy some.

I don't know if it supports your point, but it certainly supports the same ends that Dylan turned me on to Verlaine and Rimbaud and made me seek out their work.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

He's been pissing people off since 1962, so your rage is a valuable part of the dynamic.

Back when the counterculture was the counterculture I'm sure Dylan did piss off more than a few folks.

But now that the counterculture has, in large measure, become the culture, I suspect that the contemporary
reaction to Dylan is more likely to be indifference or boredom than ire.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Sorry, but I don't agree with Dylan getting this award. Is he one of the greatest song writers of all time? Yes, without question. But, even if you believe he is the greatest song writer ever, comparing song lyrics to novels and books is ludicrous. Where is character development, layers of plot with twists and turns, or rich illustrations of history or location?
I love lots of his songs, but come on, they aren't on the level of the world's great literature. Not trying to blame or demean Dylan, he's great, but saying that song lyrics are equivalent to literature is like saying finger painting is equivalent to a Van Gogh work.

So William Shakespere should be excluded
Prose describes which is fine.I believe Tolkien was a genius.but
Poetry is experienced and its the most ambitious use of the written word.

 

[bags27]

What bothers me is the dumbing down that is occurring; and again, that the Nobel for Literature is seldom awarded for poetry (there should be a separate award) and that there are many more deserving, and that one of them will never receive the recognition he/she deserved.Perhaps all this will will encourage us, including me, to read more poetry and even buy some.

Laying my cards on the table: I don't think you know what you're talking about. I think you just don't like Dylan (which is entirely fair) and are boxed into a corner without a deep understanding or appreciation of the kinds of literature that merit such an award.

Having said that, I am interested in what poets you think deserve the honor ahead of Dylan (on the honor system: no fair googling an answer). I ask this so that perhaps I can be surprised to learn that you really do know what you're talking about, and, if not, so that you can appreciate that you don't.

 

[bags27]

Back when the counterculture was the counterculture I'm sure Dylan did piss off more than a few folks.

But now that the counterculture has, in large measure, become the culture, I suspect that the contemporary
reaction to Dylan is more likely to be indifference or boredom than ire.

The New York Times the next day ran THREE long articles praising the award, plus an op-ed to that effect. The New Yorker posted two articles in praise on its website within hours. The Rolling Stone article (which I think started this conversation) was posted immediately. "What took them so long" is I think how it started.
Dylan has gone so far beyond counterculture stuff. His three main albums of the late 90s to mid-00s contain a number of masterpieces reflecting on what it means to be getting old. In every way, this is a major intellectual event.

 

[Intpseeker]

An ode to Joan Biaz
I think I described a poster here is positively 4th Street
I was an early fan and actually saw him perform at the old New Haven Arena.

My first real concert. Dylan at the Bushnell, end of October 1965. Last row of the balcony for the acoustic first set, then right down front when many bolted in protest when he went seriously electric for the second set.

 

[Intpseeker]

So he isn't answering his phone. The committee can't get ahold of him.

 

[alexrgct]

Is Salman Rushdie ever going to win the Nobel prize for literature? The man deserves to.

 

[j66kicker]

Is Salman Rushdie ever going to win the Nobel prize for literature? The man deserves to.

Then the Nobel committee would all be on the hit list

 

[alexrgct]

Then the Nobel committee would all be on the hit list

Isay anyone who would add the Nobel committee to a hit list can take their Fatwa shine it up real nice, twist that thing sideways and stick it where the sun don't shine.

I read The Satanic Verses and thought it was the greatest book ever written. For that masterpiece and for Midnight's Children alone, he's deserving of the Nobel and then some.

 

[bags27]

 

[8893]

View attachment 16255

Who is Bob Zimmerman?

 

[jimazee]

View attachment 16255

Excellent!!

 

[wire chief]

Oh, and the NYT reports that a Nobel Committee member called Bob's silence "arrogant".

 

[Husky25]

Came to me via UConn alumni email just today; it is not my handiwork, I just copied the image that was in the photo (but I did immediately forward the stencil to my wife and kids hoping that one of us does a jack-o-lantern of it):

http://uconnalumni.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/1551/2016/10/pdf-husky-carve-simple.pdf

There is also this more advanced one:

http://uconnalumni.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/1551/2016/10/pdf-husky-carve-adv.pdf