OT - a question for the veterans on this board

[UcMiami]

We have a week off from Uconn games and being a non-veteran, I have a question for our strong veteran contingent on the board that I hope does not go off track or raise hackles or become political. I wanted to post this earlier, but didn't want to post during a time of year where we celebrated or commemorated some important military/historic dates.

The question:
Does the use of military symbols, and the setting of some 'studio' shows on military bases or military surroundings offend you, or do you see it as recognition of or benefit for the current forces and acknowledgement of veterans.

I am asking specifically because as a non-veteran my reaction to the NFL adopting 'camouflage' designs during the past month has struck me as inappropriate. For example: a head coach wearing a camo headset seems to equate his role and his team playing a game to a military action where lives are at risk. It seems to me to trivialize the true hardship faced in the past by veterans and currently by active service personnel and their families. And from my reaction to that, I transferred some similar feelings to especially the sports studio shows relocating onto military bases.
And these feelings probably also originate in the distaste I now feel about the military show prior to NFL games when it came out that NFL teams were being paid to allow it, rather than being their own showing of national pride in active service.

I hope the question nor my personal reasons for asking as explained above does not offend. If veteran reaction is positive to the above, it will make me easier in my own mind about the displays.

 

[wire chief]

You can expect any culture to develop a sense of sacredness, and you have hit on one.
Following 9/11, Florida State briefly used the phrase, "Let's Roll". Well, that was borrowed from an action command of the passengers on the hijacked jet that crashed in Pennsylvania. The criticism was intense for the instant sacredness we attributed to the phrase under the circumstances.

 

[Huskie78]

NFL's Salute To Service: http://www.nfl.com/salute

 

[vtcwbuff]

I served 22 years active duty (1965-1987) and another 15 as a civilian DOD employee. I was fortunate to never hear a shot fired in anger. The ship I was on did sink a couple of sampans but nobody was angry about it.

Current public opinion of the military is hugely different than it was during the Vietnam era. If there is anything that offends me (offends is probably not the right word) about the civilian relationships with the military is hypocrisy. When someone my age says "thank you for your service" (the current version of habanada) my first thought is always where the duck* were you 40 years ago. Public opinion is fickle. Now the pendulum has swung, I believe in some part because of guilt by the Vietnam generation. They grew up and many realized it wasn't the military that screwed the pooch in Vietnam.

I'm not at all offended by movie and TV shows about the military. NCIS is one of my favorite tv shows. Although I am guilty of yelling "stoooopid" at the TV whenever I see some actor-admiral wearing his collar devices wrong.

I don't find the revelation of the paid NFL stuff offensive and not particularly surprising. Recruiting is big business and my understanding is that the money was coming from service recruiting budgets. However, now that the cost and funding source has been made public I suspect the NFL will change how the "show" is funded.

As for camo - that's not an exclusive military thing. I was wearing camo long before the military adopted it. Maybe we bow hunters should be offended by the military stealing our stuff.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The military and war parties terminology are so imbued in our language that we don't even realize where so many of our terms and symbols come from. Sure, those who who have had their lives on the line in actual battle may take a dim view about a lot of the stuff that goes on in sports talk and social mores, but there is no one really qualified to speak for all the soldiers who have gone into battle, and the military itself has been the source of much of the popularization of military terms in our lives.

 

[Wbbfan1]

I served 22 Years in the Air Force and my first reaction was why does the NFL have camouflage as part of the ball cap. I see so many wearing camouflage gear that I no longer associate it as solely a military item/symbol. Didn't associate it with the military until I read about it.

 

[Kibitzer]

I have watched NFL coaches wear camo caps and earphones or baseball players wear camo shirts. If those militaristic sartorial touches were meant to honor me as a veteran, it passed me by. I think the practice is phony and even a bit silly.

I cannot speak for the current generation of active duty men and women; to even try to do so would be presumptuous.

When people say to me, with sincerity, "Thank you for your service," I appreciate it. If that comment is expressed in the context of a conversation, I elaborate a bit with my response: "Thanks, but you might be interested in knowing that I served for 20 years and I loved every minute of it!"

Because I did.

 

[itsasport]

My military service was, in comparison to the above vets, relatively short-but intense- training and a year in Vietnam with the 101 Airborne Division as an infantrymen I have no issue with camo worn by non-vets, probably because the jungle fatigues we wore were not camo. And, there are so many versions that the Army has used since then that I don't know which were or are military-related, or by what country's military.

I do have an issue with non-vets wearing unit insignia, or actors wearing unit insignia, if the character the actor portrays dishonors the patch. From '"The Deer Hunter" to the present, many actor's uniforms have displayed The Screaming Eagle of the 101st. Others wore the distinctive !st Air Cav patch, the 82nd AA patch, etc. I view it as a statement of remembrance and because it is used to bestow on the character a level of respect.

I assume this is true for vets of every service. It is the ship or wing that you served in that are remembered with reverence, and which is represented by the unit patch and motto.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Simply said, "No". The ubiquitous "Thank you for your service" that is said insincerely offends me, but people being openly patriotic and showing support for their troops with sincerity is absolutely appropriate.

"...provide for the common defence..." (no, that isn't a misspelling) is something that the vast majority of US citizens seem to conveniently forget.

That said, I was happy to see no camo unis in the Army/Navy game, this year. I just didn't like them. I also thought Notre Dame's home camo unis looked like pajamas.

 

[meyers7]

We have a week off from Uconn games

Geez, thanks for reminding us.

The question:
Does the use of military symbols, and the setting of some 'studio' shows on military bases or military surroundings offend you, or do you see it as recognition of or benefit for the current forces and acknowledgement of veterans.

I think it's great. Wish they'd do more of it.

I am asking specifically because as a non-veteran my reaction to the NFL adopting 'camouflage' designs during the past month has struck me as inappropriate. For example: a head coach wearing a camo headset seems to equate his role and his team playing a game to a military action where lives are at risk. It seems to me to trivialize the true hardship faced in the past by veterans and currently by active service personnel and their families. And from my reaction to that, I transferred some similar feelings to especially the sports studio shows relocating onto military bases.

I have no problem with them wearing camo. Umm, sometimes it looks better than their normal uniform. Is it cheesy? Sometimes, but not a big deal. People wear camo all the time, doesn't necessarily correspond to the military. Lot's of hunters out there. And wanna be hunter it would seem.

And these feelings probably also originate in the distaste I now feel about the military show prior to NFL games when it came out that NFL teams were being paid to allow it, rather than being their own showing of national pride in active service.

Everything about the NFL is money.

 

[ctfjr]

The only thing I found as offensive (actually pretty outrageous) was the fact that the US government was paying the billion dollar NFL for the privilege of putting some of our military in the seats and allowing a visual military presence. The NFL should have been doing this on their own - or not doing it at all.

 

[UcMiami]

Thanks for the responses - my dad was a WWII vet having enlisted before pearl harbor and was assigned to AAA. He never saw enemy action being stationed first as an instructor and later on a troop ship in the pacific - malaria and a sense of pride in his service and the joy in the camaraderie being what he took home from the war. He died more than a decade ago.
He hated the jingoism that we seem prone to in this country, but never lost sight of the distinction between that and the people actually serving.

 

[TWG236]

I was in the Army during the last several years of the Viet Nam war. I saw first hand how some of the citizens of this great country treated our military. I still will never forgive Jane Fonda or watch anything she is in. But I am happy when I hear someone say "thank you for your service." Nobody serving their country should ever have their service vilified just because our politicians start a war. As far as wearing 'camouflage' items, it has become a part of our current wardrobe and is so common that most people don't even associate it with our military anymore. Although I didn't serve in Viet Nam, as one military serviceman to another, Itsasport let me thank you for your service. Let's go UCONN win number 11.

 

[Monte]

We have a week off from Uconn games and being a non-veteran, I have a question for our strong veteran contingent on the board that I hope does not go off track or raise hackles or become political. I wanted to post this earlier, but didn't want to post during a time of year where we celebrated or commemorated some important military/historic dates.

The question:
Does the use of military symbols, and the setting of some 'studio' shows on military bases or military surroundings offend you, or do you see it as recognition of or benefit for the current forces and acknowledgement of veterans.

I am asking specifically because as a non-veteran my reaction to the NFL adopting 'camouflage' designs during the past month has struck me as inappropriate. For example: a head coach wearing a camo headset seems to equate his role and his team playing a game to a military action where lives are at risk. It seems to me to trivialize the true hardship faced in the past by veterans and currently by active service personnel and their families. And from my reaction to that, I transferred some similar feelings to especially the sports studio shows relocating onto military bases.
And these feelings probably also originate in the distaste I now feel about the military show prior to NFL games when it came out that NFL teams were being paid to allow it, rather than being their own showing of national pride in active service.

I hope the question nor my personal reasons for asking as explained above does not offend. If veteran reaction is positive to the above, it will make me easier in my own mind about the displays.

I like what the San Diego Padres baseball team does. When they have a Sunday home game, they wear camo uniforms. Any active military service member is admitted free to the game. it is quite a sight to see them walk to their seats(in uniform) in an orderly manner. The National Anthem, as well as the 7th inning God Bless America are sung by military personnel. I am not a Padres' fan, but I give them credit for havingdone this every Sunday for
years. There are thousands of service men and women stationed in the San Diego area.

 

[CL82]

I was interested in seeing how our vets view the (now) ubiquitous "thank you for your service." As someone who never served, I very sincerely view it as a thank you to the men and woman who made a choice to protect our freedom, a choice that I did not make. While I glad that Kib enjoyed his run, and I recognize that military service can be a great career, I still view it as a sacrifice.

That said, if those words have become meaningless or irksome, I will avoid them.

 

[cabbie191]

And these feelings probably also originate in the distaste I now feel about the military show prior to NFL games when it came out that NFL teams were being paid to allow it, rather than being their own showing of national pride in active service.

Thanks UCM for posing this question. I'm writing not as a veteran, but as the younger brother of a veteran wounded in Vietnam. (And might I add, he's also a UConn women's basketball season ticket holder!) And the son, nephew and son-in-law of those who served in WWII and Korea.

Although I like watching professional football, there are now a few things closing in on that enjoyment. Way too many injuries, anger how the NFL for years swept under the rug the long term consequences of CTE, how they've dealt with off the field issues like Greg Hardy and others, etc.

To the topic at hand, the cravenness with which the NFL wraps itself in patriotism when it was all really for the benefit of the bottom line is, for myself, more than distasteful - it's despicable.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Just a comment from Tucson -

My wife and I attend shows at the local Gaslight Theatre. For their regular performances (musical melodramas or spoofs of regular movies) they recognize birthdays, anniversaries, out-of-town visitors and finally, all current and former military and all first responders, who are asked to "stand if they are able and be recognized".

"Thank you for your service" is a big thing in Tucson, as we have a lot of retired military and the active Davis-Monthan Air Force Base (as well as Raytheon, which employs a lot of ex-military). Do I think it is sometimes a bit trite - yes. Do I think to say it when I see military in the local restaurants, no. OTH, I do respect the heck out of their service and am grateful, I just don't say it. Hopefully no one thinks that makes me a bad person.

To the poster above who wanted to know where the people offering the greetings were years ago when they should have served - "undrafted" in my case. Not everyone is cut out for the service, I'm proud of my father's WWII service, relatives in WWI, a career Navy brother-in-law, and all the rest of the family that served. Had I been drafted, I certainly wouldn't have become a draft dodger. Don't know that I would have made a great soldier, but I would have tried. The situation just didn't arise.

 

[huskeynut]

I did not serve but our youngest son is serving in the Navy as a submariner - hence my avatar. My father served in the Navy in WWII as did my father-in-law. My uncle served in the Army in WWII in Europe and servived the Battle of the Bulge.

1. I have no problem with the military paying for half-time shows - its called publicity and marketing. And it is a budgeted item.
2. The use of camo wear and items is okay I guess. Just doesn't do anything for me.
3. For those who say "thank you for your service", if they are sincere then fine. Our son does appreciated it. And there have been times when a restaurant will pay for his meal. Considering what enlisted personaal are paid, that's a very nice thing to do.
4. Our son is a great one for pointing out there errors of many military shows. We often talk about them over the phone or facetime when we get a chance. But its difficult when you are doing 40 hour shifts!

The military is a great career for those who can deal with military discipline. Our son already has accumulated over 60 credit hours in IT. He has advanced a rank within 18 months, 4 letters of commendation and most importantly for a submariner - earned his Dolphin in under 12 months.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Camo's worn to me is just another part of "fashion"--who cares. Multicolor unforms? Bad taste all part of life. It doesn't bother me, there are other things to worry about, like getting NC number 11.--That's real!!
I have a question??????? How does anyone know when someone says"Thank you for your service!" when it is sincere or not?? To me it's important it is said!!
Anyone saying thank you for your service usually gets a handshake from me. I must admit it means more to me coming from another Vet.
Anything and everything the Entertainment industry does to promote and inform the public of the horrors our people have been through is super great with me.
Freedom isn't Free. I hate it when people say--we ONLY lost XXX men during yYYY campaign. How would they feel (prior) if they were killed during the YYYY action. Lives Matter---ALL Lives, during all wars, skirmishes, or firefights anywhere--honor those in Uniform because they represent 25o plus years and millions of people fighting many died so we may live.

 

[UcMiami]

I like what the San Diego Padres baseball team does. When they have a Sunday home game, they wear camo uniforms. Any active military service member is admitted free to the game. it is quite a sight to see them walk to their seats(in uniform) in an orderly manner. The National Anthem, as well as the 7th inning God Bless America are sung by military personnel. I am not a Padres' fan, but I give them credit for havingdone this every Sunday for
years. There are thousands of service men and women stationed in the San Diego area.

Thanks for this information. That sounds like a very nice tradition that i knew nothing about.
And on the NFL (and all sports leagues) receiving payments - I have no problem with the promotion of military service and the attendant budget expense - what bothered, and still bothers me, is that the participation by the military had the aura of being an altruistic expression by the leagues and teams of patriotism and support for the military rather than an expression of commerce. I would feel the same if I learned parade sponsors were requiring fees to allow military bands and color guards to march in them, or that airlines who grant service people upgrades as available were then billing the military for those upgrades.

 

[vtcwbuff]

A couple of years ago I was in the San Diego airport when a planeload of uniformed troops came through a gate after deplaning. The entire concourse stood and applauded them as they walked by. In contrast, I was stationed in the bay area in the late 60's. Things were so bad we were told not to wear our uniforms if we went into San Francisco.

I would never thank a young soldier or sailor for their service. I has become a meaningless platitude, even when well intentioned. However, when the opportunity presents I will always stop and shoot the bull with them for a bit. If they are returning I welcome them home and if they are leaving I wish them a safe return.

Like most career military, I would never trade my service and even though it occasionally sucked I never considered it a sacrifice. Mostly I considered it an interesting, often rewarding job with lots of ability based opportunities.

But then I wasn't getting shot at.

 

[filthy beast]

I am a Marine Corps Vietnam Vet. Certainly not a hero. I have the same "bad coming home" stories that many have shared. It hurt at the time, personally and professionally. Like most vets of the era it strengthened my resolve to do everything in my power to see that no other generation of veterans would ever receive similar treatment. That pro sports play on patriotism for publicity is not all good or all bad. If this is a vehicle to create a positive impression for those serving, I'll take it. I am far more offended / disturbed by the politicians and bureaucrats waving and posing in front of the flag for the cameras. All the while taking away funding for basic veteran's benefits and services. This is closing in on being a rant. Peace and happiness to all you Boneyarders, especially you fellow lurkers.

 

[cabbie191]

I would never thank a young soldier or sailor for their service. I has become a meaningless platitude, even when well intentioned. However, when the opportunity presents I will always stop and shoot the bull with them for a bit. If they are returning I welcome them home and if they are leaving I wish them a safe return.

I think it can be the way you describe, but not always. When the circumstance permits, I try to have a conversation with the serviceman, whether or not he/she is currently serving or is a vet. This happened Saturday night at a wedding reception - the couple, in lieu of gifts for themselves, asked that guests bring items in support of the Marine Corps Toys for Tots campaign. I spent ten minutes talking with the Marine who was stationed by the five collection boxes. There was a great response to the idea - all were filled to the brim - but only a handful of folks took the opportunity to spend time conversing with the Marine.

 

[willtalk]

The only thing I found as offensive (actually pretty outrageous) was the fact that the US government was paying the billion dollar NFL for the privilege of putting some of our military in the seats and allowing a visual military presence. The NFL should have been doing this on their own - or not doing it at all.

I think that is something that bothered me as well. Of course we do not have the draft as during my time so it could just be money well spent for recruitment purposes. The other stuff, even phony overkill is still a lot better than the anti military attitude that existed during the sixties and early seventies.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I think that is something that bothered me as well. Of course we do not have the draft as during my time so it could just be money well spent for recruitment purposes. The other stuff, even phony overkill is still a lot better than the anti military attitude that existed during the sixties and early seventies.

The only fair way to recruit for any war of any duration over 2 months--is the draft with no exclusions. The Anti- military was big with one group--the average American on the street always supported the people fighting for them. But some professors chose to make class not on European lit but the war--it's called hijacking one education. If their class was so unimportant it should have been dropped. A case for anti-tenure.