Oriakhi is the last of the 'old guard' (very long post)

[johnhuskies95]

Really? Did I see what I thought I saw from Alex on the bench last night? Did Alex use Twitter to whine this season? Alex is a nice kid but he is wrong on this. First, you treat your coach with respect, especially a 69 year old HOF'er. Second, you don't whine and air dirty laundry on Twitter. He's lucky he wasn't suspended.

The coaching staff had no problem with what he said on twitter. This board wants to make it into a bigger deal than it is. The actual coach had no issue with what he put on twitter.

The argument on the bench was bad on AO's part, but the same thing happened in the 90's, with kids the OP is lauding.

 

[Tommyboy]

The Oriakhi situation shouldn't be too much of a big surprise for those who have been close to the program for a while now. Oriakhi is part of the 'old guard' at UConn that has been purged for the most part. Here is the history:

Oriakhi came into the program at a time when we were bringing in a different type of player (different from the type of kids and players that UConn normally brought in). There was a run of recruiting classes that were full of players that were coming to UConn because of our earlier success and the reputation of UConn as an 'NBA factory'. Calhoun had worked well in the past with kids who were all about basketball, were gym rats, and had a very strong work ethic. For a few year run, we were getting elite and athletic basketball players, but they were not the same type of kid/player as we had in the past (and have gotten in the past couple years). They did not have the same priorities as the previous kids and did not react well to the coaching style of Calhoun and were not completely 'all in for the team no matter what'. They did not have complete respect for the coaches and the team concept.

This can all be traced back to the coaching staff at the time. Calhoun has the final say in the players and the recruits, so he is ultimately responsible. But he also relies heavily on the assistant coaches for the recruiting and evaluation of players and kids (as he always has). But unfortunately, the people he was relying on and trusting for this evaluation and recruitment for a few years just were not what Calhoun really needed. They were cutting corners and were attracting a certain type of kid to the program. We had a period of years in which we were bringing in kids who were here for themselves and their future NBA careers and were not completely bought into the program and the full 'team concept'. Calhoun learned the hard way that these assitants were driving the program into a bad place. This was manifesting itself not only on the court, but in the locker room, around campus, and throughout the university (the APR problems are also related to this as well)...just the entire aura of the program. There was just a different culture of this group of assistants which attracted a certain type of kid and player...who ultimately did not mesh well with Calhoun and the UConn program.

We had this whole discussion a couple of years ago and the focus and debate was centered around Dyson. It was an ugly fight here on the Boneyard that got very ugly. All the focus was on Dyson. But in reality, it wasn't just Dyson...he was just the poster child for the kids we had in our program for a few years running.

Here is a history of our recruting classes for context:


2006
Hasheem Thabeet
Gavin Edwards
Doug Wiggins
Ben Eaves
Stanley Robinson
Jonathan Mandeldove
Jerome Dyson
Curtis Kelly

2007
Donnell Beverly

2008
Ater Majok
Scottie Haralson
Kemba Walker
Nate Miles

2009
Darius Smith
Jamaal Trice
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel
Alex Oriakhi

2010
Shabazz Napier
Tyler Olander
Roscoe Smith
Michael Bradley
Jeremy Lamb

2011
Andre Drummond
DeAndre Daniels
Ryan Boatright

2012
Omar Calhoun

and keep in mind that Coombs-McDaniel and Oriakhi committed to UConn a couple of years earlier when they were sophmores...when the Wiggins/Dyson/Kelly/etc were also committing to UConn.
Take a look at that list and the history. Think about the kids and players recruiting during the late 2000's and then those in the past couple recruiting classes. There was a clear shift made between the 2009 and 2010 recruiting class in terms of the type of kids and players were were recruting and bringing into the program. Kemba Walker was the exception and was a Godsend to the program. He was reminder for Calhoun of the type of player UConn used to have and he works so well with. That is when Calhoun made a change in terms of the recruitment and players coming to UConn. Out were Andre LaFluer, Patrick Sellers, and Beau Archibald (although it did take a year for LaFleur to find another landing spot first). And these were the years where Tom Moore was in a leadership role on the staff too. That is not to say that those coaches are bad people or had evil motives. But they just weren't up to the level that we were used to and to the level that Calhoun needed. UConn and Calhoun got greedy and got away from the what made them successful and the culture and program that they had built. Notice since then, how Calhoun has brought back so many people from the earlier years to try to bring back the culture and program that we used to have and want to have (Ollie, Freeman, Hobbs, Miller).

So our program hit a very rough patch that lead to not only problems on the court, but also in the class room and in the locker room. We had some spurts of success and had a lot of natural talent. But the culture was cancerous and a change needed to be made. Calhoun realized this and made some changes. But that created a transition of players, coaches, and cultures. And Oriakhi is the last of the 'old guard' who is now isolated and not part of the 'future'.

In terms of what is next for Oriahki....look for him to transfer to Hofstra or Providence. Is it a coincidence that Patrick Sellers is at Hofstra and that is where Jamal Coombs-McDaniel ended up? Don't be surprised if Oriakhi ends up there. Or Providence. LeFleur is now at Providence and they are now getting the type of kids that Uconn was getting back in the late 2000's. Ledo and Dunn are the types of players who came to UConn in the late 2000's, and now they are going to Providence. And Gerard Coleman is a good buddy of AO and Jamal Coombs-McDaniel. So Providence could be a landing spot too (if the APR suspension holds and AO has no restrictions on the school...and thus can go to a BE team without sitting out).

Again, this is not meant to say that the 'old regime' of coaches and players were bad people or should be attacked. But it is just a different type of person and does not mesh well with what Calhoun does well and what makes him successful. Take a look at the history. With the benefit of looking at it after the fact it is clear. Calhoun realized this and made changes...and we are better off for it. And those close to the program can attest to this history as well.


So that being said....attack away at me!

I count 9 kids on that list that have a national championship ring.

 

[Dann]

I count 9 kids on that list that have a national championship ring.

ok, but read what hes trying to talk about. 5 of those 9 you count are post coaching changes where now we are recruiting a diff kind of player then the midlate 2000's. of those 4 Jamal Coombs-McDaniel is gone, dbev was a good guy but wasn't exactly a major player, kemba enough said and ao is still here...

 

[UCDaveD]

Ledo and Dunn are the types of players who came to UConn in the late 2000's, and now they are going to Providence.

Ledo's the type of player who came to UConn? Ledo has a reputation of being a selfish who routinely clashes with teammates/coaches. I wouldn't want that kid anywhere near our program.

 

[UofCT]

If we are deemed ineligible for the tourney next year I wouldn't get upset if Alex decided to transfer... I think we can replace the 5 fouls, 2 points, 3 rebounds (on a good night), and zero leadership he gave to this UConn team as a Captain.

 

[gars44]

Ledo's the type of player who came to UConn? Ledo has a reputation of being a selfish who routinely clashes with teammates/coaches. I wouldn't want that kid anywhere near our program.

I think that's what he's sayin.

 

[Dann]

i agree for the most part with the op actually. there is a shift. were the guys from the 2000's good players? hell yea mostly and they got us to a f4 one of those years. no one is saying they were d3 players but its clearly a different type of off court kid were looking at. if you can't tell the difference then i dont know what to tell you. i thinks thats the sum of it.

blue-didn't pan out or hasn't got pt
red-troubles
oranges- some problems but did produce on court
green-good for the program

2006
Hasheem Thabeet- very raw, developed over years at uconn but never fully translated beyond potential. he was on track school wise if i remember right.
Gavin Edwards- clashed with coach alot and also didn't finish school-apr. ok player at end of career.
Doug Wiggins- several issues with the law not just at uconn, same problems elsewhere.
Ben Eaves- tansfered after 1 year, didn't pan out.
Stanley Robinson- had off court baggage and imho becuase of it never was able to fully develope as a skilled wing player. was a stud ath who played well but clearly lacked some film time and skills learning. did he finish school?
Jonathan Mandeldove- where to begin here with him????
Jerome Dyson-rocky uconn career, had off court issues with the law at uconn. pre getting hurt was a good player for us, got hurt and when he came back it was me me me to the nba not team. didnt finish a class correct? so apr etc...
Curtis Kelly-i thought was a good kid that just didn't get enough time to develope and was overlooked becuase of thabet. he transfered to kst and had a decent finish to his career but nothing special.

2007
Donnell Beverly-was never more than a small bench part. was a good kid for the program and a competitor. no apr issues or off court issues.

2008
Ater Majok-raw as all possible, makes drummond look like god. off court baggage with handler and family and left. played overseas and eventually got drafted late 2nd round becuase he schools chairs. apr?
Scottie Haralson- wasn't getting time and didn't pan out. transfered after 1 year, doing ok now down south i think some 1 posted recently at uab was it???
Kemba Walker-enough said
Nate Miles-where to begin here? he lasted 4 weeks. arp and so on with him...
Chuck O.- raw big guy who was a role player at best towards the end of his career. no issues.

2009
Darius Smith- didn't pan out. transfered after year 1
Jamaal Trice-didn't pan out. transfered after year 1
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel- clashed with coach, off court troubles. transfered after year 2.
Alex Oriakhi-up and down on court 3 years, clashed with coach no doubt-effort/improvment issues, ao and dad are not using social media to well!!!! transfer after 3 years and being captain.

see the issue above? not alot of green... we need green guys and a bit of orange is ok and common in most programs. some blue is ok but not a lot. but clearly the amount of blue and red here was horrible for those years. maybe u guys understand that now with the colors.....
half of our green guys that we actually had were not big time players.
in 4 years we have 4 true green players. one was a stud, 1 was a potential big guy and 2 were career bench guys/role guys. thats not going to cut it.
ao is the last of this group as the op was talking about. the jury is still out on him and most here including myself hope the best for the kid but lets be real with things.

so far in these guys young careers:
2010
Shabazz Napier-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Tyler Olander-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Roscoe Smith-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Michael Bradley-2 years of no off court or grade issues, has yet to play
Jeremy Lamb-2 years of no off court or grade issues
N. Gif--2 years of no off court or grade issues
E. Wolf-2 years of no off court or grade issues, has yet to really play

2011
Andre Drummond-1 year so far, extreme small amount of baggage off court pre uconn that turned out to be nothing. no grades or issues. raw big guy with great potential and got major pt.
DeAndre Daniels-1 year so far, some pt, clearly potential to develope. no grades or off court issues.
Ryan Boatright-1 year so far with off court pre uconn baggage, great player with high grades.

glad i got to finish of this gem now. as u can see it may be a hard road ahead with having a typical uconn team talent wise if lamb/ad go pro, but its for the better program wise. based off the kids we have landed the past 2 years and omar comin', i bet we fill in this class with a player or 2 and we are ok in the end. rocky road ahead with the ncaa/apr/pf/coach talk etc going on. but we will be ok and the future is bright. the ole guard is now gone.

 

[Lefty2one]

Damn..all four of our 2009 recruits wound up transferring. Crazy.

 

[UConn5]

WAY off base when it comes to Alex.

I may agree with the underlying premise of this post, but do not think it is fair at all to lump Alex in with some of those guys. Alex didn't have any problems to speak of before this year. This year was a tough year for him but his previous two years had no issues at all. My only issue w/this situation is that he decided to make this public now, before it is certain that UConn won't be in the NCAA tourney next year, but claims that is the reason when it is apparent to everyone that there are ulterior motives. That being said, he never had any issues w/the law, never got in trouble at school, never had problems with grades at all. I understand that Alex's legacy at UConn may ultimately be defined by this decision in his life, but I don't think that is entirely fair.

Addressing some other posters' characterizations of players, I am not sure Gavin Edwards deserves any criticism. My understanding that is that Gavin stayed at UConn despite his father's urging to transfer. He may not have finished his classes and he may have ultimately hurt our APR in the end, but that system was broken and I think he signed a professional contract which, under the new system, wouldn't have hurt UConn.

I think the original post ignores the fact that expectations have changed. JC used to be able to get guys, develop a team, have an NIT appearance one year and 2 years later be in contention for a final four. The level of recruit that UConn attracts has changed, the whole 1 and done phenomenon has changed things as well. I think that the shift is more a reality of where UConn is as a program and the general state of college basketball than any conscious decision.

 

[willie99]

wow, the entire 2009 class transferred out

 

[willie99]

This is complete BS. Oriakhi is a winner. Period. He's won AAU National Championships, Prep School National championships and a college National Championship. Name me another basketball player in the whole country who can say that.

On top of that, he has a 3.6 GPA this year and was named a captain by JC. Get real.

I'm going to go with an all-time great, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel (wasn't he Alex's teammate throughout all of that?)

and if that's the case, well..................................

 

[Kitaman]

I don't think its all that complicated. Alex and Coach did not get along, period. What's not discussed is whether or not there was a 'bad seed' stirring dissent and discontentment. In other words like at work where one employee has a problem with the boss and tries to recruit co-workers to rebel in subtle ways. Its the old saying "misery loves company".

Not Alex, but someone on that list (from 2006) could have planted the discontent seed awhile back, and it just grew underground so to speak. I think Alex ate it and did not spit it out. I thnk many other players were not having it and in some cases where kept outside of the malcontent discussions. Sort of like privately held.

To me the fact is that Calhoun is so demanding and wants the best effort (practice and game), some kids just can't meet or don't understand his demands/standards, and transfer. Giffey and Tyler may not be the most talented but their work ethic and hustle indicates they have brought into it. Bazz as well and a couple others. Bottom line it ain't easy.

Ray Allen talks about his NBA work ethic resulting from playing for Calhoun. So, its not the coach that's for sure.

 

[wpq4elamin]

I think the bottom line is this:

When you win, it cures a lot of ills and it sweeps a lot of issues under the rug. It also makes you turn a blind eye to things you may be seeing, and instead of harping or nitpicking, you celebrate and laud the good. The feel good story of 2011/"Kemba and the kids" made everyone high on UCONN basketball life...

When you lose, everything is magnified; every look, every roll of the eyes, every slumped shoulder, every argument with coach. All those issues that had been conveniently shuffled under the rug during our BET and Tourney run last year (inept offense, Kemba taking too many shots, relying on Kemba too much, AO's inconsistent play, relying too much on frosh, little production from seniors, transfer, APR, and eligibility issues, etc.) started surfacing this year and really came to a head with JC's suspension, Boat's suspension, the impending NCAA APR ban, and our poor play during and following those issues.

You see this in sports all the time- winning makes everyone forgive and forget and also usually gives you a pass for a couple years... unfortunately, because of our success during JC's tenure, we seem to want a FF team every year... I think in recent years, we've realized (as UCONN fans) that chemistry can trump overall talent, buying into a team concept can trump freak athleticism, and sometimes you just gotta appreciate a run like last year for what it was...

Every time I watched us play this year, I thought about Kemba and what our team did with him last year and I just smiled; everyone on this site saw how JC was with those guys last year and you realize how special that was to him, the players, and all of us as fans. Appreciate what JC has done with our program through numerous "cycles" and "guards" and "eras"... he won't be around forever, but what he's managed to accomplish and build in Storrs certainly will be...

 

[Marty Jackson]

Tom Moore left in 2007. He was at Uconn for 13 years and was chiefly responsible for most if not all the major recruits that brought us two NC's and went on to NBA superstar status.
If anything, I would suggest it was his leaving that may have had the biggest impact on our recruiting (in a negative way)...

 

[bobbygt]

Damn..all four of our 2009 recruits wound up transferring. Crazy.

And 3/4 of the 2008 class left the program as well (Kemba, Majok, Miles, Harralson).

If AO is indeed gone, that means the following:

All 8 players left uconn early
Not a single one of the 8 got a degree from uconn

 

[Tenspro2002]

And 3/4 of the 2008 class left the program as well (Kemba, Majok, Miles, Harralson).

If AO is indeed gone, that means the following:

All 8 players left uconn early
Not a single one of the 8 got a degree from uconn

Well, it's not really fair to characterize it that way.

7 players left UConn early in a dissatisfactory manner.

1 player left UConn early after delivering the best individual season in the history of the program.

Your overall point is absolutely correct though. Recruiting was simply not up to snuff from ~2006-2009, and we're still paying for it today with all these transfers killing our APR, plus the fallout from the Miles fiasco.

 

[caw]

Well, it's not really fair to characterize it that way.

7 players left UConn early in a dissatisfactory manner.

1 player left UConn early after delivering the best individual season in the history of the program.

Your overall point is absolutely correct though. Recruiting was simply not up to snuff from ~2006-2009, and we're still paying for it today with all these transfers killing our APR, plus the fallout from the Miles fiasco.

Did Kemba not graduate?

 

[Ts5034]

And 3/4 of the 2008 class left the program as well (Kemba, Majok, Miles, Harralson).

If AO is indeed gone, that means the following:

All 8 players left uconn early
Not a single one of the 8 got a degree from uconn

This right here says A LOT! Im not going to speculate on who was forced out or left on their own, but i think the type of kids they are recruiting needs to change. That is way too many transfers

 

[bobbygt]

And 3/4 of the 2008 class left the program as well (Kemba, Majok, Miles, Harralson).

If AO is indeed gone, that means the following:

All 8 players left uconn early
Not a single one of the 8 got a degree from uconn

I wasn't looking at it from success on the court standpoint, and I certainly wouldn't lump Kemba in a group with Miles.

In fact, all of these cases are so vastly different (except maybe the trio of Harraslson, Trice, and Smith, who were all just buried too deep on the bench).

I know things have changed, but I find it amazing that you have 8 players over a two year span, none of whom made it to their senior year. Kemba is the greatest husky of all time, and he did everything well, but I'm just looking at the data.

 

[District-Husky]

I wasn't looking at it from success on the court standpoint, and I certainly wouldn't lump Kemba in a group with Miles.

In fact, all of these cases are so vastly different (except maybe the trio of Harraslson, Trice, and Smith, who were all just buried too deep on the bench).

I know things have changed, but I find it amazing that you have 8 players over a two year span, none of whom made it to their senior year. Kemba is the greatest husky of all time, and he did everything well, but I'm just looking at the data.

I thought Kemba graduated in 3 years?

 

[ddooky]

I agree with Marty Jackson. I posted this the other day. Our staff hasn't been the same since Moore left in 2007. He was the driving force behind the personnel on the 2003-2006 teams. Go back and take a look at the number of future NBA players, depth of quality talent, and charcater of the kids during that time. The recruiting dropped off sharply after he left. I don't understand the lack of respect that guy seems to get from this board, but whatever.
The Oriakhi departure is a shame. Kid and Dad should realize the positives of staying at UConn outweigh any reasons for leaving.

 

[Palatine]

I don't buy this analysis at all. Calhoun has always taken chances on kids. He always will.

I think that most problems in the program stem directly from Jeff Hathaway. He was more concerned with his bonuses than with the school. He gutted compliance. He couldn't get along with the coaches. He basically left the teams on auto-pilot. That turned into a lack of support systems for the student athletes. And that led to trouble.

Heck, this was a school that kept Johnnie Selvie in good academic standing and out of trouble before Hathaway showed up.

 

[geohusky]

i agree for the most part with the op actually. there is a shift. were the guys from the 2000's good players? hell yea mostly and they got us to a f4 one of those years. no one is saying they were d3 players but its clearly a different type of off court kid were looking at. if you can't tell the difference then i dont know what to tell you. i thinks thats the sum of it.

blue-didn't pan out or hasn't got pt
red-troubles
oranges- problems but did produce on court
green-good for the program

2006
Hasheem Thabeet- very raw, developed over years at uconn but never fully translated beyond potential. he was on track school wise if i remember right.
Gavin Edwards- clashed with coach alot and also didn't finish school-apr. ok player at end of career.
Doug Wiggins- several issues with the law not just at uconn, same problems elsewhere.
Ben Eaves- tansfered after 1 year, didn't pan out.
Stanley Robinson- had off court baggage and imho becuase of it never was able to fully develope as a skilled wing player. was a stud ath who played well but clearly lacked some film time and skills learning. did he finish school?
Jonathan Mandeldove- where to begin here with him????
Jerome Dyson-rocky uconn career, had off court issues with the law at uconn. pre getting hurt was a good player for us, got hurt and when he came back it was me me me to the nba not team. didnt finish a class correct? so apr etc...
Curtis Kelly-i thought was a good kid that just didn't get enough time to develope and was overlooked becuase of thabet. he transfered to kst and had a decent finish to his career but nothing special.

2007
Donnell Beverly-was never more than a small bench part. was a good kid for the program and a competitor. no apr issues or off court issues.

2008
Ater Majok-raw as all possible, makes drummond look like god. off court baggage with handler and family and left. played overseas and eventually got drafted late 2nd round becuase he schools chairs. apr?
Scottie Haralson- wasn't getting time and didn't pan out. transfered after 1 year, doing ok now down south i think some 1 posted recently at uab was it???
Kemba Walker-enough said
Nate Miles-where to begin here? he lasted 4 weeks. arp and so on with him...
Chuck O.- raw big guy who was a role player at best towards the end of his career. no issues.

2009
Darius Smith- didn't pan out. transfered after year 1
Jamaal Trice-didn't pan out. transfered after year 1
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel- clashed with coach, off court troubles. transfered after year 2.
Alex Oriakhi-up and down on court 3 years, ao and dad are not using social media to well. transfer rumors are flying but we will see what happens....

see the issue above? not alot of green... we need green guys and a bit of orange is ok and common in most programs. some blue is ok but not a lot. but clearly the amount of blue and red here was horrible for those years. maybe u guys understand that now with the colors.....
half of our green guys that we actually had were not big time players.
in 4 years we have 4 true green players. one was a stud, 1 was a potential big guy and 2 were career bench guys/role guys. thats not going to cut it.
ao is the last of this group as the op was talking about. the jury is still out on him and most here including myself hope the best for the kid but lets be real with things.

so far in these guys young careers:
2010
Shabazz Napier-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Tyler Olander-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Roscoe Smith-2 years of no off court or grade issues
Michael Bradley-2 years of no off court or grade issues, has yet to play
Jeremy Lamb-2 years of no off court or grade issues
N. Gif--2 years of no off court or grade issues
E. Wolf-2 years of no off court or grade issues, has yet to really play

2011
Andre Drummond-1 year so far, extreme small amount of baggage off court pre uconn that turned out to be nothing. no grades or issues. raw big guy with great potential and got major pt.
DeAndre Daniels-1 year so far, some pt, clearly potential to develope. no grades or off court issues.
Ryan Boatright-1 year so far with off court pre uconn baggage, great player with high grades.

When looking at the list of kids recruited and those who left the program it really is amazing that during that time period we had one Final Four and one National Championship. It certainly is a testament to the Coach.

 

[bobbygt]

Did Kemba not graduate?

My bad- Kemba did graduate in the summer of 2011.

 

[pmoney247]

AO leaving has absolutely no impact on the UConn program, just like he had no impact on the UConn bball program this year. He had a run of good games last year, but withered away this year. A kid who raises his hands and grimaces after every earned hack call has no personal accountability. He was always looking to blame others for his faults (or fouls.) Overbearing Dad looks like he kindled that fire within this less-than-talented basketball player. Good riddance.