OT: - One Argument to Open Colleges | The Boneyard

OT: One Argument to Open Colleges

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huskyd

huskyd

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One thing to observe is that early on the Virus shut down, we had a significant amount of young people on the beaches of South Florida. Given the fact that 18 to 22 year olds have a sense of "invincibility" that will not keep them in one place especially on a College campus and a high degree of active hormones, the likelihood, of moderation is low.
 
As a University Educator, my own experiences with the specific education value of online lectures through zoom is technically very close to inperson lectures. In particular, the ability to save lectures to the cloud is invaluable and I guarantee, you work harder on malking the online lectures more precise and helpful.

However, one point that is unavoidable is the inability to properly assess technical classes (that can't be tested through multiple choice for example) through exams. I simply do not see a scheme that can provide secure exams and the ability for students to cheat makes it impossible to administer classes properly and motivate students to study.
 
I am surprised and a bit dismayed to discover that some on this forum have determined that colleges and universities are yet another institution to be derided. Like all institutions, colleges are imperfect.

But for many of us, who grew up in working class households, scraping together a living, the college experience was the most important factor in achieving a measure of success and prosperity, not only for ourselves, but for our children and grandchildren who followed in our footsteps.

College may not be for everyone, but it remains a critical step in the growth and development for many young people. Let’s not turn this thread into yet another political argument.
 
So all we need to do is give an instant test to every college student every day. 15 million instant tests a day, when we've given 5 million tests total in four months, each of which takes a few days to get results.

We can always hope.

In addition to the technical and economic sides, there's always the HIPAA side.
 
I'm not sure that higher education needs to crumble, but the current pre-corona model with the spiraling costs is not sustainable. My sister was a dean for the college of arts and sciences for a small private college in Baltimore and served several years on an accreditation board for several years where she visited many other campuses. She said the current model could not survive and predicted in 10 years traditional colleges and universities had to adapt to the economic realities or die.
 
Caint nobodee tell me that collage lerning aint good for noone. Upper skool lerning aint for evryone but somes peeple gets plenty of benifit from it. Youze get out what youun put inter it.
 
reno tony said:
Caint nobodee tell me that collage lerning aint good for noone. Upper skool lerning aint for evryone but somes peeple gets plenty of benifit from it. Youze get out what youun put inter it.
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Ain't dat da trooth.
 
huskyd said:
Here's a hopeful expression of the importance of opening America's colleges:
www.nytimes.com

Opinion | College Campuses Must Reopen in the Fall. Here’s How We Do It. (Published 2020)

It won’t be easy, but there’s a path to get students back on track. Higher education will crumble without it.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
.
This would, of course, be the harbinger of the resumption of college sports, too. I'm hoping.
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I certainly hope as well that what is shared in the article plays out and college campuses return to some sense of new "normalcy" during the fall. The plan outlined in the article calls for testing, tracing, and isolation as the keys to making the reopening successful. Each of those tasks has its own challenges. Students who don't wish to fully comply will figure out ways to get around each of those three phases. I foresee the potential to have so many asymptomatic carriers milling about in the general student population that the infection rate skyrockets.

Absent an effective vaccine being developed and widely distributed as well as testing availability and protocols being significantly more advanced, I remain doubtful that school leaders will attempt to and ultimately have success in bringing students together in the classroom again anytime soon.
 
oldude said:
I am surprised and a bit dismayed to discover that some on this forum have determined that colleges and universities are yet another institution to be derided. Like all institutions, colleges are imperfect.

But for many of us, who grew up in working class households, scraping together a living, the college experience was the most important factor in achieving a measure of success and prosperity, not only for ourselves, but for our children and grandchildren who followed in our footsteps.

College may not be for everyone, but it remains a critical step in the growth and development for many young people. Let’s not turn this thread into yet another political argument.
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I do not doubt for one second the truth of your argument for THEN, unfortunately, that is not what they offer NOW. Imperfect is one thing, intolerant and controlling of the free sharing of ideas and viewpoints is something entirely different.
 
It's almost exclusively old people that are dying. Just keep the kids on the campus and don't send them home. They'll be fine. Furthermore, they will build a herd immunity and keep the rest of us safer. About half the deaths have been in nursing homes. 84% of deaths are people who are over 65. The kids are fine, pretty much invulnerable to this very contagious but fairly weak virus. Oh, but here I go with facts, silly me.
 
Littlemin said:
I do not doubt for one second the truth of your argument for THEN, unfortunately, that is not what they offer NOW. Imperfect is one thing, intolerant and controlling of the free sharing of ideas and viewpoints is something entirely different.
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I don’t know what your experience has been so I will not make an assumption. I was speaking for my experience as well as my son’s, along with many friends and family members who have attended college over multiple generations, up to and including today.

I have stayed involved with both my alma maters as well as my son’s and I would not describe either as intolerant and controlling, nor would I describe any other college or university in that fashion. My primary complaint of colleges in general is the accelerating costs for tuition and fees.
 
Roger G said:
It's almost exclusively old people that are dying. Just keep the kids on the campus and don't send them home. They'll be fine. Furthermore, they will build a herd immunity and keep the rest of us safer. About half the deaths have been in nursing homes. 84% of deaths are people who are over 65. The kids are fine, pretty much invulnerable to this very contagious but fairly weak virus. Oh, but here I go with facts, silly me.
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Herd immunity is not yet proven for this virus, and there are certainly examples of young people who have died from this virus. What about faculty and staff, many of whom are not spring chickens? What about cafeteria staff, maintenance staff and campus security? This is going to be complicated.
 
Considering the source of this article, I will not read it.:)
Someone brought up the idea that online courses could lead to cheating. With 99% of students having a smart phone with them 24/7, doesn't that same possibility exist in a school room setting?
 
As oldude pointed out, college classes aren't taught by college students, and campuses aren't staffed by them. And let's not forget that there are teenagers as well as middle-aged people who are immunocompromised. My closest friend is 47 and on required medication that suppresses his immune system. He's also a teacher. It's shocking to find how little (currently) healthy people seem to care about people like him.
 
Centerstream said:
Considering the source of this article, I will not read it.:)
Someone brought up the idea that online courses could lead to cheating. With 99% of students having a smart phone with them 24/7, doesn't that same possibility exist in a school room setting?
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With a proctor walking the aisles of an exam room, that can be greatly minimized.

There is no real solution with online testing no matter the innovations in software.
 
Roger G said:
It's almost exclusively old people that are dying. Just keep the kids on the campus and don't send them home. They'll be fine. Furthermore, they will build a herd immunity and keep the rest of us safer. About half the deaths have been in nursing homes. 84% of deaths are people who are over 65. The kids are fine, pretty much invulnerable to this very contagious but fairly weak virus. Oh, but here I go with facts, silly me.
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Really ? Do you have any idea the average age of tenured professors on a U.S. campus ? It may be true that the student age population are somewhat less vulnerable, but they are the biggest segment of infected & asystematic which would lead to outbreaks all around a campus.
 
Roger G said:
It's almost exclusively old people that are dying. Just keep the kids on the campus and don't send them home. They'll be fine. Furthermore, they will build a herd immunity and keep the rest of us safer. About half the deaths have been in nursing homes. 84% of deaths are people who are over 65. The kids are fine, pretty much invulnerable to this very contagious but fairly weak virus. Oh, but here I go with facts, silly me.
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I wish the relatively simply path suggested above turns out to be an enlightened one. If college students begin to succumb to the disease in increasing numbers after returning to campuses, then our problem becomes a much bigger one. I think that it may be a little premature and naive to characterize COVID-19 as a "fairly week virus." As more and more is discovered anecdotally by physicians and nurses about how the virus attacks the body and leads to death, the realization by many is that our current treatment options aren't enough to save patients who weeks earlier were relatively healthy.

As a parent of a college student who is receiving instruction remotely, I am in no hurry for college classes to resume in the physical classroom until more is known about the transmission of the disease and comprehensive testing protocols are discussed and vetted.
 
Here's something from the Washington Post for those among us who find anything in the New York Times dubious to the point of unreadability. (For those who find the Post dubious—and maybe don't even believe in Watergate—this story was also reported in the New York Post. Hope that's a solid enough source for you.) I myself have no interest in contracting a "fairly weak virus" capable of causing deadly strokes even in vibrant thirtysomethings.
 
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