Ollie's Contract

[intlzncster]

I am more willing to blame Ollie for prioritizing Abdul-Malik Abu and Leron freaking Black over Bonzie Colson in recruiting than I am to blame him for our current crop of bigs being limited. YMMV.

I'm the farthest thing from an expert on the high school/AAU hoop scene. And as a result, recruiting in general. But this does seem to be one of Ollie's problems.

I could be wrong, but he appears to go all in on guys, at the expense of a broader net. I'm thinking of players like Stone and Diallo. There's so much uncertainty in recruiting, especially in the current climate, it didn't seem wise from an outsider's perspective.

No problem with recruiting one and dones hard, but making next level guys absolute priorities is important.

 

[Stainmaster]

I'm the farthest thing from an expert on the high school/AAU hoop scene. And as a result, recruiting in general. But this does seem to be one of Ollie's problems.

I could be wrong, but he appears to go all in on guys, at the expense of a broader net. I'm thinking of players like Stone and Diallo. There's so much uncertainty in recruiting, especially in the current climate, it didn't seem wise from an outsider's perspective.

No problem with recruiting one and dones hard, but making next level guys absolute priorities is important.

It's funny, I've also read that Ollie offers way too many kids and casts a net that's much too wide.

 

[intlzncster]

It's funny, I've also read that Ollie offers way too many kids and casts a net that's much too wide.

I've read that as well. That might be initially, but this is just an observation of the end of the process, when he appears to be left holding the bag.

Again, a very non expert opinion on this process.

 

[Matrim55]

I'm the farthest thing from an expert on the high school/AAU hoop scene. And as a result, recruiting in general. But this does seem to be one of Ollie's problems.

Was one of his problems. He fixed it in 2016 & 17...

I could be wrong, but he appears to go all in on guys, at the expense of a broader net. I'm thinking of players like Stone and Diallo. There's so much uncertainty in recruiting, especially in the current climate, it didn't seem wise from an outsider's perspective.

Going all-in on Stone made no sense for us, given the fact that we had a REALLY good chance at Govan until we made it clear he was No. 2. Govan isn't the second coming of Emeka or anything, but he was a guy that we could've landed, and a guy who could've helped a lot over the last 1.5 years.

Even Govan was a top 50 recruit, though. We recruited almost exclusively top 75 bigs in 2014 & 2015, and the only one we landed (Enoch) A) was raw, and B) fell into our laps. KO & staff did a bad job of identifying "program builders" -- guys who are ranked from 100-200 or so and will likely stick around for four years, improving each season. Those are the types of guys that Kansas, Michigan State (they lack them this year and are struggling), Villanova, Gonzaga and even UNC have thrived with.

We didn't identify those guys early in the process in 2014 & 15, and we're reaping what we sowed on the recruiting trail over those two years.

No problem with recruiting one and dones hard, but making next level guys absolute priorities is important.

And now I think Ollie's learned that lesson. He got Diarra, Polley & Carlton wicked early in the recruiting cycle, and he got & stayed with Vance even as he dropped from ~40 to ~80 in the rankings. He also jumped on Vital as soon as Vital decommitted from UNLV.

That's five sub-elite recruits who will be with us for a long while, in addition to a trio of truly elite guys (Alterique, Durham, MAL). While none of those sub-elite guys has an exceptionally high ceiling (Jackson might turn into Jared Dudley, and Carlton's best-case is maybe Daniel Ochefu), they raise our floor as a program.

Just like getting 3-star recruits Colson & Devin Watson in 2014, instead of fighting for 4-stars like Perkins, Jackson-Cartwright & Abu, would've raised our floor over the last three years. In retrospect the decision to swing for the fences on the 2014 class was the biggest factor, other than injuries, leading to our current situation.

Diallo is, I think, a separate case. Because of the depth & diversity of our 2016 & 17 classes we could afford to go all-in on him and miss, and still be largely ok going forward. I said before and I'll say it again here: The biggest reason we needed to land Diallo is because he's almost certainly a future pro, and we need to replenish our stock in the league. In terms of on-court impact, however, I'd rather have a proven postgrad shooter.

Ollie's gotten better as a recruiter over the last three years. The job now is to show he's gotten better as a talent developer as well. I've seen lots of individual improvements from the sophomores & freshmen to give me confidence it'll happen.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Facey was the POY in New York out of high school. His talent was pretty obvious from day one, but for whatever reason he didn't get many minutes his first 3 years. Let's not act like he was a 2 or 3 star recruit

daniels and giffey year 1, nolan/brimah/omar/hamilton, last year omar/miller/hamilton... he never got much time bc of players around him and ollie likes to go small at times

 

[donyell34]

Next year with realistic expectations and luck with injuries will at least to me will be very telling on Ollie and his recruits who will have a year or two of experience. Incorporating the injured guys with the new guys will take some time . Enoch needs to improve and Jalen has to stay. I'm a KO guy and but another year of this will kill us.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Was one of his problems. He fixed it in 2016 & 17...


Going all-in on Stone made no sense for us, given the fact that we had a REALLY good chance at Govan until we made it clear he was No. 2. Govan isn't the second coming of Emeka or anything, but he was a guy that we could've landed, and a guy who could've helped a lot over the last 1.5 years.

Even Govan was a top 50 recruit, though. We recruited almost exclusively top 75 bigs in 2014 & 2015, and the only one we landed (Enoch) A) was raw, and B) fell into our laps. KO & staff did a bad job of identifying "program builders" -- guys who are ranked from 100-200 or so and will likely stick around for four years, improving each season. Those are the types of guys that Kansas, Michigan State (they lack them this year and are struggling), Villanova, Gonzaga and even UNC have thrived with.

We didn't identify those guys early in the process in 2014 & 15, and we're reaping what we sowed on the recruiting trail over those two years.


And now I think Ollie's learned that lesson. He got Diarra, Polley & Carlton wicked early in the recruiting cycle, and he got & stayed with Vance even as he dropped from ~40 to ~80 in the rankings. He also jumped on Vital as soon as Vital decommitted from UNLV.

That's five sub-elite recruits who will be with us for a long while, in addition to a trio of truly elite guys (Alterique, Durham, MAL). While none of those sub-elite guys has an exceptionally high ceiling (Jackson might turn into Jared Dudley, and Carlton's best-case is maybe Daniel Ochefu), they raise our floor as a program.

Just like getting 3-star recruits Colson & Devin Watson in 2014, instead of fighting for 4-stars like Perkins, Jackson-Cartwright & Abu, would've raised our floor over the last three years. In retrospect the decision to swing for the fences on the 2014 class was the biggest factor, other than injuries, leading to our current situation.

Diallo is, I think, a separate case. Because of the depth & diversity of our 2016 & 17 classes we could afford to go all-in on him and miss, and still be largely ok going forward. I said before and I'll say it again here: The biggest reason we needed to land Diallo is because he's almost certainly a future pro, and we need to replenish our stock in the league. In terms of on-court impact, however, I'd rather have a proven postgrad shooter.

Ollie's gotten better as a recruiter over the last three years. The job now is to show he's gotten better as a talent developer as well. I've seen lots of individual improvements from the sophomores & freshmen to give me confidence it'll happen.

the guy has never coached before in his life prior to 2012-2013 and since then he has a NC, a conference tourney, beat coaches Wright/Izzo (2x)/The mayor/ Donovan (2x), Calipari, Boeheim, Matta, he has had several consecutive years in which his recruiting classes has improved drastically (the only thing is he has prioritized bigs but I think he has realized this), every year he has had 20+ wins, all this coming from inheriting a program that was in disarray...

Having seniors, minus facey, who don't have any bball IQ is what is hurting after committing to them. I believe he will fix this going forward and he has with leaders like Adams, MAL, Gilbert. He caught a terrible break this year with 3 major injuries and has had several games with 6/7 players this year. Should he be dominating the AAC yes and he should next year. I do believe he knows what needs to be fixed and it will be fine. Next year if we are 100% healthy I see us much much better. Biggest need going forward as ollie has shown he can get the guards and wings are big big men who want to rebound, go strong to the rim, and want to improve

 

[Matrim55]

the guy has never coached before in his life prior to 2012-2013 and since then he has a NC, a conference tourney, beat coaches Wright/Izzo (2x)/The mayor/ Donovan (2x), Calipari, Boeheim, Matta, he has had several consecutive years in which his recruiting classes has improved drastically (the only thing is he has prioritized bigs but I think he has realized this), every year he has had 20+ wins, all this coming from inheriting a program that was in disarray...

Having seniors, minus facey, who don't have any bball IQ is what is hurting after committing to them. I believe he will fix this going forward and he has with leaders like Adams, MAL, Gilbert. He caught a terrible break this year with 3 major injuries and has had several games with 6/7 players this year. Should he be dominating the AAC yes and he should next year. I do believe he knows what needs to be fixed and it will be fine. Next year if we are 100% healthy I see us much much better. Biggest need going forward as ollie has shown he can get the guards and wings are big big men who want to rebound, go strong to the rim, and want to improve

I agree with this. It doesn't, however, change the fact that he did a not-so-great job of recruiting in 2014 & 15, and that's the cause of much of our current troubles.

His improvement in terms of recruiting -- specifically in identifying the talent we want earlier in the cycle, and then landing it -- should give everyone confidence that we'll be improving as a program in a big way over the next 3-4 years.

This is our time in the desert. We'll come out of it soon enough.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Biggest need going forward as ollie has shown he can get the guards and wings are big big men who want to rebound, go strong to the rim, and want to improve

We do need another rebounding big, though a healthy Diarra might do that for us. The biggest need is shooting, at every spot on the floor. Right now we've got 2 reliable shooters, one from inside and one from outside, and that latter guy is a freshman.

 

[shizzle787]

I agree with this. It doesn't, however, change the fact that he did a not-so-great job of recruiting in 2014 & 15, and that's the cause of much of our current troubles.

His improvement in terms of recruiting -- specifically in identifying the talent we want earlier in the cycle, and then landing it -- should give everyone confidence that we'll be improving as a program in a big way over the next 3-4 years.

This is our time in the desert. We'll come out of it soon enough.

Recruiting isn't Ollie's problem. It's in-game adjustments (not including coming out of timeouts). He still hasn't figured out how to break down a zone.
He also doesn't put the ball down low enough, when we have two players, Enoch and Facey, that would shine offensively if he did. When Kentucky gets 4 and 5-star recruits, they play like it, when UConn does, they don't (at least not as freshmen).

 

[Matrim55]

Recruiting isn't Ollie's problem.

Recruiting in 2013, 14 & 15 was very much Ollie's problem, even if it largely wasn't one of his own making. And we are suffering because of it it now.

It's in-game adjustments (not including coming out of timeouts). He still hasn't figured out how to break down a zone.

Pretty thoroughly disagree but ok.

 

[intlzncster]

Pretty thoroughly disagree but ok.

I've said this ad nauseum, but it's (not so) amazing how having a couple of high end experienced PGs changes people's perceptions of a coach. Magically seems to cure a multitude of ills.

 

[Mr. French]

I agree with this. It doesn't, however, change the fact that he did a not-so-great job of recruiting in 2014 & 15, and that's the cause of much of our current troubles.

His improvement in terms of recruiting -- specifically in identifying the talent we want earlier in the cycle, and then landing it -- should give everyone confidence that we'll be improving as a program in a big way over the next 3-4 years.

This is our time in the desert. We'll come out of it soon enough.

That's huge, and i agree with your prevailing idea in this and other threads that the cycle of recruiting hit us this year, mostly.

That's clear, and I have the same confidence as you do that he has recognized the roster building aspects and everything you noted.

I'd personally hesitate to say he made mistakes, they ended up looking like mistakes because we lost certain guys and other guys have shown they'd be great fits. But that's partially hindsight, and like you noted I think he has learned from those experiences, however one defines them.

 

[Sonova]

[QUOTE:all this coming from inheriting a program that was in disarray... [/QUOTE]

In DISARRAY?! The four years before Ollie got the job consisted of 2 Final Fours, a Big East tournament championship, a freaking NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, 4 lottery picks and the pieces that would win another National Championship a year later. Yes, I know we were docked a scholarship and that there was a tourney ban in his first season, but you might want to pick another word to describe the situation he inherited.

 

[UConnSwag11]

We do need another rebounding big, though a healthy Diarra might do that for us. The biggest need is shooting, at every spot on the floor. Right now we've got 2 reliable shooters, one from inside and one from outside, and that latter guy is a freshman.

Adams and Vance have improved immensely. Vital needs confidence but agreed one more would be good... a kid like AO would be great too

 

[champs99and04]

First, I disagree with this: Facey has clearly developed into a functional chess piece, even if it only finally happened 10 games into his senior year. God I wish we'd redshirted him as a freshman.

Second, from 2013 through 2015 we landed four big men out of high school. One (Lubin) wasn't good enough for this level, while the other three (Facey, Brimah, Enoch) came to the game late and lacked the baseline fundamentals -- how to set & reverse a screen, where to look first when passing out of a double, how to freaking box out -- that kids who've played the game their entire lives have baked into them by thousands of hours on the court.

The good news is that in the last two classes we've added three big men (Durham, Diarra & Carlton) who've all played the game for a decade before coming to Storrs. They're limited in different ways, but it's a safe assumption that their developmental paths will be different than what we've seen from our current group of bigs.

I am more willing to blame Ollie for prioritizing Abdul-Malik Abu and Leron freaking Black over Bonzie Colson in recruiting than I am to blame him for our current crop of bigs being limited. YMMV.

I agree with most of this, which is why I'm still optimistic about the future. Regarding our recent run of big men, you're right, none of them came here with any degree of polish - aside from maybe Facey, though your observation about his limited experience is noted - and my hunch is that that's an easy trap to fall into as a young coach. Not to suggest Ollie overrated his own ability to develop players, but when you're a novice to the coaching profession I imagine it is easy to fall for unharnessed talent under the premise that you can coach anybody up. Perhaps with some seasoning comes a greater appreciation for players who make the job easier for you, and my hope is that a kid like Carlton represents a shift in philosophy that makes us a little more watchable these next few years.

Even if you're grading on a curve, though, you have to admit that you expected more from some of these kids. Brimah and Nolan - both four year kids with ample opportunity to grow instinctively and as students of the game - combined for 48 assists in the 7.5 seasons they've played so far. It's an enormous luxury for a defense to optimize their help structure to account for the knowledge that virtually all paint touches from the big's are going to result in either turnovers or shot attempts.

On Facey, you're still talking about a kid taking 5 shots per game on the 244th ranked offense in the country. Granted, his stats are depressed by a slow start to the season that cut into his minutes, but even on a per 40 rate he's taking less than 8 shots per game, averaging just over 1 assist, and turning it over almost twice as much. Deeming him a legitimate chess piece seems awfully liberal, especially considering he balks at the first inkling of a double, isn't comfortable putting the ball on the floor, and struggles to finish through contact. He never developed into an effective screener, he doesn't monopolize the defense with rim-runs like Brimah does, and he's strangely reluctant to ever pop to the three point line - or even a couple steps in - for jump shots that his touch would seem to indicate he's capable of hitting. As a result, his offense is reduced to low-reward floaters and short jumpers in the paint, which, while he hits them at an efficient clip, don't necessarily translate to any sort of sustainable offense.