Old vs. New Big East | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Old vs. New Big East

Re: PItt

Pitt sucked for most of its history, then Howland came along, had two winning seasons, and then got the hell out of there. Dixon managed to build a pipeline to New York that got Pitt talent it had not seen in decades through Barry Rohrssen. Recruiting started to slip when Rohrssen left in 2006, and Pitt hasn't reached the second weekend of the Tournament since Rohrssen's last class graduated in 2009.

Pitt has no natural recruiting territory. Western PA is football country, and WVU competes in the area along with all of the Big 10 for a small amount of high level D1A talent. Now that Pitt no longer plays in New York, it is just another school trying to get players out of the Big Apple, and has not been particularly successful.
 
UConnJim said:
The New Big East has a very simple problem: money. Schools have to invest in their athletic programs in order to remain competitive and this is my biggest fear with the New Big East given the schools are relatively small private Catholic universities.

When was the last time the NBE hired a well recognized, successful college coach?
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There is not a single coach in the American that wouldn't take the first Big East job he was offered.
 
Beware of Creighton. They are in the conference for a reason. I too wonder how the conference fares against the P5 with their money to burn, but so far it has gone pretty well, and not just because of Villanova. They won two championships, but the year of the last one, they finished second in the league to Xavier. The feelings of Marquette fans toward Louisville and Cincinnati are different.

We used to play Louisville regularly even before being in the same conference, back in the Denny Crum days. In C-USA, we had some wars. In 2003, we had a battle for the conference championship with each team winning on the opponent's floor. They used to bring a good crowd to Milwaukee, and we actually liked them. They knew basketball. The teams respected each other. I was surprised to look at the record and see that they had run up a streak against us. It did not feel that way. Too many close games.

Cincinnati is a different matter. We were conference rivals with them going back to the early '90's in the Great Midwest, and then on to C-USA. But that was under Huggins. In the Big East, they were not one of the top teams until the final year before the breakup. Replacing them with Xavier seems to be an improvement, especially since we have a long history with Xavier as well. And there is another thing. The current Big East teams all have a collective chip on their shoulder for P5 schools. We're gonna die off? You're gonna bury us? Watch this!

I do not know that the departed teams are necessarily better. It is just that in the 16 team format, there were so many of them. UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Georgetown, Syracuse, West Virginia, Villanova, Notre Dame, could all be nationally ranked in a given year, and at least half of them were. Lots of opportunities for wins against ranked teams. Lots of ESPN. That is no longer the case, but there are no longer any USF or Rutgers. Teams rise and fall and rebuild and none of them are going to be walkovers. Men's basketball is the priority for all of them. All three of the recent additions have basketball traditions dating back decades. We might not be at the point where five out of ten team are ranked in a given year, but we are not far off, and the middle and bottom of the conference are stronger.

You guys might long for the days when the BE put three teams in the Final Four. I recall the days when we placed 11 teams and had three top seeds. But I am happy with this arrangement. F the P5!
 
superjohn said:
You would think so because of money but I'm confident they won't. None of them really fit in the ACC and will always be second class citizens to tobacco road. Pitt has no presence in NYC anymore and they used to live off of NYC recruits. I also don't see Cuse having much of a tri-state presence. We should control that area from now on and pick the kids we want to focus on from New England prep.
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I worry about Pitt and Cuse giving Danny Hurley $8m a year.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
There is not a single coach in the American that wouldn't take the first Big East job he was offered.
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That's BS and you know it. Marshall has been asked by everyone and hasn't been willing to move.
 
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FriarJ said:
I understand your point about PC but you are forgetting one factor involved with PC and that is Cooley. Now I'm not saying his path was not made easier by the split but in reality it flipped from the original start of the conference when PC was in a down cycle at the absolute worst time. PC was trending up when this recent split happened.
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It's multiple schools, not just PC. I just used one example.

I mean, people would be astounded to look at Georgetown's history post 1985.

It was not good. There were the Iverson years and that's it.
 
upstater said:
I worry about Pitt and Cuse giving Danny Hurley $8m a year.
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Might not be $8 mill, but it could be $5 or $6 million. Conference payouts in the SEC and Big 10 are going to be 10x+ the NBE payouts and the ACC could be 5x to 8x the NBE payouts. If a P5 wants to poach a NBE coach with maybe two exceptions, it will happen. Heck, many NBE head coaches are being paid in line with some P5 football offensive and defensive coordinators.
 
upstater said:
I worry about Pitt and Cuse giving Danny Hurley $8m a year.
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Didn't he turn down Pitt to go to UConn?

As has been stated, Pitt has an uphill battle. The core of the ACC is the old ACC. Pitt and BC are on an island of misfit toys. If you're a top recruit in the northeast, is Pitt going to make your top 10? I doubt it.
 
Pitt and BC won cash in realignment, but that's about it. They are ACC misfits that are in a recruiting bind making it tough to compete. The ACC does need some of these type of programs so the top of the conference can have winning records.

Sometimes money doesn't buy happiness.
44268
 
UConnJim said:
Might not be $8 mill, but it could be $5 or $6 million. Conference payouts in the SEC and Big 10 are going to be 10x+ the NBE payouts and the ACC could be 5x to 8x the NBE payouts. If a P5 wants to poach a NBE coach with maybe two exceptions, it will happen. Heck, many NBE head coaches are being paid in line with some P5 football offensive and defensive coordinators.
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Cooley is now over $3mil with escalators over the next 10 years to over $4M. I would say that is very competitive. It was enough to keep him there over Michigan, plus a bump for his assistants as well.
 
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Pitt hoops sucks, they draw just over 4k a game, and they get paid anyway. Do you think there is any incentive by that school to spend a nickel extra on their basketball coach?
 
Zissou said:
Didn't he turn down Pitt to go to UConn?

As has been stated, Pitt has an uphill battle. The core of the ACC is the old ACC. Pitt and BC are on an island of misfit toys. If you're a top recruit in the northeast, is Pitt going to make your top 10? I doubt it.
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The money for the P5 hasn't really kicked in yet, in terms of what it is projected to be. UConn can compete with Pitt now. I am talking about the future.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Are you arguing that Villanova wouldn't have won a national championship if Rutgers didn't get out of their way?

Pitt's success was an accident of history, and will never be repeated. Notre Dame is fading because they can't recruit the big northern cities like they used to. Louisville would barely be under the NBA salary cap, so they are a different situation. Cincinnati was always middle of the pack in the 2000's. Georgetown was very successful throughout the 16 team Big East era, and didn't fade until they lost some of the doormats that left.

Louisville, Syracuse and West Virginia were consistently good, and they are off our schedule. But a stronger case could be that Pitt and Notre Dame's success was in a large part due to the Big East, because both seem on a downward trajectory since leaving. USF and Rutgers were both bad in the Big East, and have improved a little because they weren't stuck at the bottom of their old league.
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Pitt not having NYC to recruit moves them from a top-15 program to top-50.
 
whaler11 said:
Pitt not having NYC to recruit moves them from a top-15 program to top-50.
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Moves them from Top 15/20 to maybe Top 100. Top 50 programs are going to the dance more often than they aren't. Pitt's attendance in the dance has been spotty in recent years.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Moves them from Top 15/20 to maybe Top 100. Top 50 programs are going to the dance more often than they aren't. Pitt's attendance in the dance has been spotty in recent years.
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If they hit hires they go to the tourney most years. The ACC can send 10-11 a year going forward as the Pac 12 melts.
 
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FriarJ said:
Disliking 2 schools is just not as easy for me anymore now that I'm older, but I will give it a shot.
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You’ll do fine
 
upstater said:
The money for the P5 hasn't really kicked in yet, in terms of what it is projected to be. UConn can compete with Pitt now. I am talking about the future.
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If you were in the B1G you could have Rutgers level football team. But alas you are not and will never be. This move restored excitement to a great fan base and some friggin dignity which are more important to your athletics department chances of survival than anything.

Is there anything you can’t argue about? This is a serious question.
 
Pitt is Exhibit A for an northeast BB program leaving the NYC area. I'm convinced this is why they torpedoed.
 
FriarJ said:
If you were in the B1G you could have Rutgers level football team. But alas you are not and will never be. This move restored excitement to a great fan base and some friggin dignity which are more important to your athletics department chances of survival than anything.

Is there anything you can’t argue about? This is a serious question.
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How stupid can you be?
 
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upstater said:
I worry about Pitt and Cuse giving Danny Hurley $8m a year.
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upstater said:
I worry about Pitt and Cuse giving Danny Hurley $8m a year.
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Let's wait till Coach Dan Hurley does something before we talk stupid numbers
He hasn't proven he can cross a puddle never mind walk on water
The administration helped pave an easier path for him with this move - let's see what he can do
Fingers crossed
 
I like how you always stick in something like "fingers crossed" at end of your scolding posts. Very P/A.
 
My least favorite segment of sports fans are the ones for whom nothing counts unless it was done at their school or for their team.
 
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