Okay, I'll say it. Samson > Clingan? | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Okay, I'll say it. Samson > Clingan?

Psolo12 said:
Don't try and change the narrative, you said that before Clingan's illness came to light.
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I don't see the need to hammer people when they are giving you all they got.
 
Deepster said:
Right now, are we better with Samson in there?

a) There were times last season I said the same when Donovan outplayed Adama.
b) I think Donovan is not where he needs to be conditioning-wise yet.
c) Could Samson pull a Hilton Armstrong type jump in his development?
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No
 
There were many games last year when Sanogo was more effective than Clingan and vice-versa. Will probably hold true this year with Clingan and Samson. They're both valuable pieces to this team. Last night Clingan was sick and Samson was a monster at the rim. Won't be like that every game.

Get Clingan back 100% and then revisit this thread.
 
Deepster said:
Right now, are we better with Samson in there?

a) There were times last season I said the same when Donovan outplayed Adama.
b) I think Donovan is not where he needs to be conditioning-wise yet.
c) Could Samson pull a Hilton Armstrong type jump in his development?
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First of all the entire premise of this verges on divisive at best, gaslighting at worst. Sampson is looking better every game and I hope his upside is to the moon. Really came through last night. But as in all sports guys go through various stretches based on matchups and other circumstances. This take is based on one of those snapshots in time. Clingan coming off injury and now it turns out he's been sick. Kinda hard to ignore those two factors and honestly I don't care who's better. Want them both to be great..
 
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Jimdish255 said:
First of all the entire premise of this verges on divisive at best, gaslighting at worst. Sampson is looking better every game and I hope his upside is to the moon. Really came through last night. But as in all sports guys go through various stretches based on matchups and other circumstances. This take is based on one of those snapshots in time. Clingan coming off injury and now it turns out he's been sick. Kinda hard to ignore those two factors and honestly I don't care who's better. Want them both to be great..
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I agree with you but we really need to start spelling our players names correctly. I know it's not your intention but it comes across as disrespectful, it's Samson.
 
I'm content that we have two quality big men. Clingan had a below expectations weekend and Johnson exceeded them. Not every player needs to have A+ game for us to win and that is huge.
 
Psolo12 said:
Alot of the takes in here look pretty ridiculous now that we know Clingan was sick the last two games and fighting through an illness.
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Exactly, samson had one nice game and we are debating if he is better than a lottery pick. Clingan is clearly lacking explosivness due to missed time. He will be fine and there is no comparison. Does not mean samson is not a good player. When Samson lays an egg and he will, let’s remember this nice game.
 
A huge question coming into the season was less about who would replace Sanogo than about who would replace Clingan's minutes as he took over for Sanogo. If we have an answer to that question we should consider it a blessing.
 
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(Edit: this is data for just this season) Here is a data driven comparison of the 2...

Advanced metrics (ShotQuality, Torvik, Evan Miya & KenPom)

ShotQuality Points Per Possession (expected points per shot)
Clingan: 1.22 (88th percentile)
Johnson: 1.49 (99th percentile)

Torvik Box Score +/-
Clingan: +7.8
Johnson: +5.6

Evan Miya Bayesian Performance Rating (a metric that looks at offensive and defensive value to the team)
Clingan: 9.23 (2nd nationally among qualifying D1 players)
Johnson: 0.62 (1356th nationally among qualifying D1 players)

KenPom Offensive Rating
Clingan: 121.8 (28.1% usage) (398th nationally among qualifying D1 players)
Johnson: 126.2 (16.4% usage) (286th nationally among qualifying D1 players)

Other stats (from CBBanalytics.com)

Points / 40 min
Clingan: 24.4 (95th percentile)
Johnson 17.6 (76th percentile)

Offensive Rebounding %
Clingan: 21.5% (98th percentile)
Johnson: 10.6% (73rd percentile)

Hakeem Percent (% of blocks + steals on defensive possessions)
Clingan: 12.8% (95th percentile)
Johnson: 8.6% (84th percentile)

Personal Foul Efficiency (ratio of steals + blocks to fouls)
Clingan: 1.56X (94th percentile)
Johnson: 0.82X (76th percentile)

Clingan is clearly better (especially when defense is factored in) but Johnson has been very good this year, too.
 
Last edited:
McLovin said:
Here is a data driven comparison of the 2...

Advanced metrics (ShotQuality, Torvik, Evan Miya & KenPom)

ShotQuality Points Per Possession (expected points per shot)
Clingan: 1.22 (88th percentile)
Johnson: 1.49 (99th percentile)

Torvik Box Score +/-
Clingan: +7.8
Johnson: +5.6

Evan Miya Bayesian Performance Rating (a metric that looks at offensive and defensive value to the team)
Clingan: 9.23 (2nd nationally among qualifying D1 players)
Johnson: 0.62 (1356th nationally among qualifying D1 players)

KenPom Offensive Rating
Clingan: 121.8 (28.1% usage) (398th nationally among qualifying D1 players)
Johnson: 126.2 (16.4% usage) (286th nationally among qualifying D1 players)

Other stats (from CBBanalytics.com)

Points / 40 min
Clingan: 24.4 (95th percentile)
Johnson 17.6 (76th percentile)

Offensive Rebounding %
Clingan: 21.5% (98th percentile)
Johnson: 10.6% (73rd percentile)

Hakeem Percent (% of blocks + steals on defensive possessions)
Clingan: 12.8% (95th percentile)
Johnson: 8.6% (84th percentile)

Personal Foul Efficiency (ratio of steals + blocks to fouls)
Clingan: 1.56X (94th percentile)
Johnson: 0.82X (76th percentile)

Clingan is clearly better (especially when defense is factored in) but Johnson has been very good this year, too.
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Good stuff. You should post this again after the Gonzaga game before we get into the conference schedule. Will be interesting to see what kind of consistency we see.
 
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boog204 said:
Style of play is important to note here... While DC is agile for his size, the Indiana and Texas guys were superior athletes and DC was rushing everything offensively in the paint. He's an outstanding screener and passer and our offense runs better with him on the handoffs etc. But Samson brings elite athleticism and can better match up in fast paced play. I'm not advocating that we are better with him over DC, but he does bring something different to the table that can be a better matchup.
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We were incredibly spoiled last year between Adama and Donavan. I like being spoiled and Samson is doing that for me. DC will be fine.
 
Obviously I noticed yesterday was not Clingan's best game and Samson outplayed him.... but never did it cross my mind that Samson is better than Donovan. Not for a second. Last year at his best I didn't see anyone that could match up with DC. He's just too fast and nimble for his size. I gotta assume we will see that version of DC really soon.
 
Gurleyman said:
Clingan had a few good moments interspersed with the bad ones - a couple passes (bounce pass on a backdoor cut - the one that sailed out of bounds was a pretty good read but he had been sitting a long time and it sailed). A defensive rebound where he basically boxed out an entire side of the floor. A more relaxed finish. Just needs to get his rhythm back at game speed and starting playing big on the low block again. Johnson is going to run into some bigger players who keep their body on him and neutralize his athleticism, but man it looks like he can change the game with fresh legs off the bench when we need a spark. Glad we have both.

Samson had a personal highlight reel of personal plays - but I was impressed with a couple of the defensive rebounds he grabbed in traffic the second half. They were grown man’s rebounds - Texas was small, yes, but they were out of his area and he had to fight for them. That’s encouraging to me that he’s got some blue collar in him too.
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ny !!!!!!!!!!
 
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Hoophound said:
Clingan has a major influence on the game, but he’s lacking in several areas. He isn’t a polished finisher, can’t shoot free throws and he gets gassed easily. I like both of them, but Clingan is overhyped for now.
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Wow.
 
Gurleyman said:
Clingan had a few good moments interspersed with the bad ones - a couple passes (bounce pass on a backdoor cut - the one that sailed out of bounds was a pretty good read but he had been sitting a long time and it sailed). A defensive rebound where he basically boxed out an entire side of the floor. A more relaxed finish. Just needs to get his rhythm back at game speed and starting playing big on the low block again. Johnson is going to run into some bigger players who keep their body on him and neutralize his athleticism, but man it looks like he can change the game with fresh legs off the bench when we need a spark. Glad we have both.

Samson had a personal highlight reel of personal plays - but I was impressed with a couple of the defensive rebounds he grabbed in traffic the second half. They were grown man’s rebounds - Texas was small, yes, but they were out of his area and he had to fight for them. That’s encouraging to me that he’s got some blue collar in him too.
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Welcome back, NY.
 
i dont understand why clingan had to put on so much weight over the summer. what advantage was it supposed to create? he was already bigger than just about everyone, now he's noticeably slower too. that's a net negative. this isn't about his foot either. once he gets his conditioning back he's still going to slower than last year.
 
JMick said:
Well I don't count Twitter because our fans on Twitter are generally terrible. I just see people here saying that he just didn't look right. And he was sick so they weren't wrong.
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The UConn fan flexing on Twitter is hysterical.
 
bendm said:
i dont understand why clingan had to put on so much weight over the summer. what advantage was it supposed to create? he was already bigger than just about everyone, now he's noticeably slower too. that's a net negative. this isn't about his foot either. once he gets his conditioning back he's still going to slower than last year.
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Exactly how do you know how fast he will be? Missed a month with foot, certainly impacts his speed, power and conditioning. I assume same coaching staff that slimed him down last year did not decide to make him slow this year. Let it play out
 
Jimdish255 said:
First of all the entire premise of this verges on divisive at best, gaslighting at worst. Sampson is looking better every game and I hope his upside is to the moon. Really came through last night. But as in all sports guys go through various stretches based on matchups and other circumstances. This take is based on one of those snapshots in time. Clingan coming off injury and now it turns out he's been sick. Kinda hard to ignore those two factors and honestly I don't care who's better. Want them both to be great..
Expand ...
AGREE.. Hate this kind of post.
 
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