NY Post Big East to extend invitations to 6 schools by Tuesday

[gars44]

Isn't hindsight a beautiful thing?

 

[Druken Friar]

You don't remember the Pony Express? At one time SMU was near the top of college football. Unfortunately it wasn't following NCAA guidelines. Right in the heart of Dallas, with some of the best high school programs in the country minutes away.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=wilson/101209_pony_excess&sportCat=ncf

 

[huskyrob1]

John Toner was on record when interviewed a couple of years ago as having been pro Penn State.

I would have thought Toner would have been pro PSU since he used to be the football coach at UCONN, but did not know for sure, thanks Coach.

 

[BugsyCT]

I'd be interested in knowing if Perkins and Toner voted for or against ND being allowed in for all sports except football and for or against Penn State back in 85/86. IMO Toner would have voted for Penn State in a heartbeat.

This from JoePa's Media Day interview in August 2003:

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/080903aaa.html

Reporter: "At Big East Media Day Mike Tranghese said they would not take Penn State 20 years ago."

Paterno: "Mike Tranghese is completely incorrect. I flew up to Hartford, Connecticut and sat down with Dave Gavitt, who by the way was a classmate and probably the roommmate of Jake Crouthamel (Syracuse athletic director) at Dartmouth, and I talked to them about what I thought would be the best interest of the East and that would be an all-sports conference. Connecticut, at that time, and John Toner, who was the athletic director there and an old friend of mine, was involved in that. We talked and they wanted to know if we had any interest in the Big East? I said, "No, we were only interested in an all-sports conference." I went home and I got several telephone calls, including from Bill Flynn, who at that time was the athletic director at Boston College and since has passed, trying to talk us into going into the Big East or apply to the Big East because they wanted to deter my efforts to get an all-sports conference. They were scared to death. Syracuse and BC were more concerned, at that time, in their basketball. Being with the Big East, they were there when Georgetown was hot and the whole bit. I don't blame them. This isn't pointing fingers. What happened, happened. When they called me, I said, "Look, we are not interested." They may have had a vote and said, "We are going to try to get Penn State." They may have taken a vote on their own, but we have never applied and showed any interest in the Big East as far as basketball. The only interest we had was in an all-sports conference. They then went to Pitt and Pitt decided that would be in their best interest. Pitt went into the Big East for their basketball. Again, I have no problem with anybody doing anything, but I don't want people to misrepresent what happened. I have never felt there was anything that was proper for Penn State athletics except an all-sports conference. We had gone through it with the Atlantic10 and the whole bit. The minute that thing folded on us, I sat down and said, "We have got to start to think about getting into an all-sports conference." I may be dumb, but I wasn't that dumb. I was seeing Notre Dame fooling around with their own television contract, the SEC breaking away from the CFA getting their own television contract. We are in University Park and we have to figure out how we are going to get some kind of an affiliation with somebody that has some clout for us to have the kind of television package that will protect us. If we hadn't gotten into the Big Ten, and we were fortunate that it worked out for us, we had some people in the Big Ten on the academic level, not the athletic level. We got in the Big Ten because of the academic level, the presidents and some faculty reps and people like that. If that hadn't happened, I was talking to a lot of my friends in the Atlantic Coast Conference at that time because I really felt that we had to be in a conference. Paul Pasqualoni played for me and he is at Syracuse. He and I have talked. I have friends at Pitt. I am an Easterner, sure, and I am not happy with what is happening to the Big East. Greg Schiano coached for me and he is the coach at Rutgers. I have talked to all of those guys. I would just like the record to be straight that we never applied to the Big East for basketball. The only thing we did with the Big East was try to talk some of the schools in that league to break away and become involved in an all-sports conference."

 

[RS9999X]

The guys at the Bocci club down the street say they got an invite....it's conditional but it's looking good.....

 

[businesslawyer]

I'd also be interested in knowing who if any of the remaining football schools (after Miami and company left) voiced concerns or opposition to Marinatto being Tranghese's handpicked successor, which of course continued the Gavitt oligarchy in controlling the conf.

There has never been a single story, or a single blog post by a reporter, to the effect that any football school had an issue with marinatto taking over.

 

[huskyrob1]

There has never been a single story, or a single blog post by a reporter, to the effect that any football school had an issue with marinatto taking over.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You realize that the delay is US, right? The hoops schools need to know that we're staying to allow USF, SMU and Houston into the basketball league. What power to you want the commissioner to have to make us give him a firm in or out so he can move?'

My point on that comment (which doesn't belong) was that the BE as a whole (in large part due to the hybrid nature) cannot be quick or decisive enough to react in times such as what we've experienced over the past sixteen plus months to survive.

The hoops schools can force a split (and will if we leave, may anyway if Louisville leaves) so as far as them being stuck in a conference with Houston and SMU without UConn or Louisville in that conference, there is no risk to them oin that scenario.

I'm still reliving the stretch from this time last year (when news heated up about Nova upgrading and shortly afterward, Nov 1 I believe, TCU's admission was announced) through this past spring when despite Nova not having any stadium plan that made any sense, it too a coup by a few football members to stop Nova's upgrade as Marinatto refused to consider the possibility that they couldn't pull it off and he refused to consider any other candidate as a possibility. This conference was on its last legs from before the 2003 raid (although many refused to see this). The botched attempt to expand to ten was what finally pushed it over the edge.

 

[upstater]

Paterno also said that he approached the BE in 1989/1990 with Maryland in his pocket both asking to join the BE for its inaugural football season, and he says he was informally turned down then.

 

[ctchamps]

Paterno also said that he approached the BE in 1989/1990 with Maryland in his pocket both asking to join the BE for its inaugural football season, and he says he was informally turned down then.

Say it ain't so Joe! So JoePa is spinning the story in his favor in the 2003 interview. Why doesn't this surprise me.

 

[RS9999X]

This conference was on its last legs from before the 2003 raid (although many refused to see this). The botched attempt to expand to ten was what finally pushed it over the edge.

I'm not so much sure that's true as the BE was victim of its own success with the scheduling alignment thing and providing ESPN with some decent games on odd nights like Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

The other factor is the changing media landscape which favors live sports for content holders like ESPN reflected in their insatiable price increases in carrier fees. The BiG further empowered conferences to seek value and streaming archived content from iTunes and Amazon Prime is around the corner

The best media properties are getting gobbled up. The 12-team conference is getting challenged as the paridigm of stability. What's happening is merger, much llike the AFL and NFL or WBA and NBA. The SWC and BE and Metro are the leading victims of change and merger and consolidation.

The march to four 16-team super conferences continues. If the B12 goes to 12 teams that's 64 teams in 5 conferences. Should RU and UConn be among the 64? Yes, but market forces aren't perfect due to the distortions of old alliances like Wake which adds nothing to the ACC or Vandy/SEC or Washington State/PAC-12.

The question is whether 14 is the new 12 and the BiG reaches out and ND or BYU align. The saddest state of affairs: the BiG adds ND and RU and the B12 adds BYU and ....... balks big at UConn.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The hybrid major conference in 2003 was as sustainable of a business as floppy drive manufacturing was five years earlier.

 

[Revrat]

I don't think there is a march to 16. If there was Rutgers and UConn would have a home already. I think they are trying to avoid 16 and go with 14. If any league feared that they need to be at 16 in the near future they would be gobbling up the best of whats available not nitpicking a team here and there and hoping a good one is left later.

 

[The Funster]

I think the march to 16 was being fueled by the Tex/OU to Pac speculation. Once the bottom fell out of that deal it lost momentum.

 

[Hoophound]

The ACC needs 16. Don't be so sure they would expand if necessary. The Big East should have expanded but didn't perceive the threat. The ACC may be underestimating the threat as well. The B12 and ACC will be on guard until the SEC and B10 are at 16. There is a lack of programming when there are fewer members. The Big East is so popular in bball because they have lots of product so people see more of it and get interested in it.

 

[upstater]

Say it ain't so Joe! So JoePa is spinning the story in his favor in the 2003 interview. Why doesn't this surprise me.

He didn't reveal this story though for media consumption. This is what he literally told big goombahs at a fundraising event in 1989/1990.

 

[RS9999X]

I don't think there is a march to 16. If there was Rutgers and UConn would have a home already. I think they are trying to avoid 16 and go with 14. If any league feared that they need to be at 16 in the near future they would be gobbling up the best of whats available not nitpicking a team here and there and hoping a good one is left later.

I don't see it happening over night. I do think it's inevitable that some strong teams outside the BCS will arise and there will be Media value there.

The PAC-12 isn't done gobbling up properties. They are in digestion mode and that could be five years or more. I'll b surprised if the B12 contract in 2016 goes smoothly in 2016

I don't think the ACC is done either. Basketball is the premier property and a 16-team league would better reflect that.
Aa population growth continues in Texas and Florida there's a good possibility new properties arise--I think one of either UCF or USF will become a major power. New technologies arrive, new demographics, new business models. New competition to ESPN. A new emphasis on hyper-local markets. No they aren't done. Merely digesting

 

[Druken Friar]

I don't see it happening over night. I do think it's inevitable that some strong teams outside the BCS will arise and there will be Media value there.

The PAC-12 isn't done gobbling up properties. They are in digestion mode and that could be five years or more. I'll b surprised if the B12 contract in 2016 goes smoothly in 2016

I don't think the ACC is done either. Basketball is the premier property and a 16-team league would better reflect that.
Aa population growth continues in Texas and Florida there's a good possibility new properties arise--I think one of either UCF or USF will become a major power. New technologies arrive, new demographics, new business models. New competition to ESPN. A new emphasis on hyper-local markets. No they aren't done. Merely digesting

Why would the Pac-12 add more schools? Would it really add any $ to the bottom line? I don't see it.
As I recall, the Big East was criticized for going to 16 teams, we were too big. Why has that changed? Why would conferences want to be bigger than 12?

 

[Druken Friar]

The hybrid major conference in 2003 was as sustainable of a business as floppy drive manufacturing was five years earlier.

Why can't a league like the Big East work? You and several others say this like it's a fact but provide no evidence. How did you reach this conclusion?

 

[zls44]

Why can't a league like the Big East work? You and several others say this like it's a fact but provide no evidence. How did you reach this conclusion?

For me, one of the most surprising things of all of this has been how completely clueless the entire fanbases of the bb-onlies are. They have no idea why a conference where 50% of the teams make more money, generate more revenue, but have no more influence than the hangers-on basketball schools who contribute nothing, absolutely nothing, can't work. They don't understand why SU fans aren't up in arms over leaving Seton Hall & PC & St. John's behind to go play North Carolina.

No basketball-only school has won the basketball national title since Villanova in 1985 (UConn was transitioning to I-A in 1999). Only two have even PLAYED for the title since then.

The basketball-only fanbases really, truly, do not get it. And for gosh sakes, if you're only going to spend money on basketball, how come they almost never come close to the Final Four, yet alone winning the title? Talk about a waste of time.

 

[The Funster]

Why can't a league like the Big East work? You and several others say this like it's a fact but provide no evidence. How did you reach this conclusion?

Because the schools aren't equal. They don't have the same agenda. They don't have the same expenses and don't generate the same revenue. Gavitt had a clue: he knew that it was going to be unfair to the football schools. That is why he talked about them going to the ACC many years ago. When ND joined, with it's own agenda, the Big East was like a three-legged stool; the problem being that each leg was a different length. The three legs made the conference unstable and an easy target, IMO. I'd also say that it is only now that the basketball schools have realized the flaw. They were bleating about breaking away from the football schools until they realized that, at this point in time, the best basketball schools are also the football schools.

 

[Druken Friar]

For me, one of the most surprising things of all of this has been how completely clueless the entire fanbases of the bb-onlies are. They have no idea why a conference where 50% of the teams make more money, generate more revenue, but have no more influence than the hangers-on basketball schools who contribute nothing, absolutely nothing, can't work. They don't understand why SU fans aren't up in arms over leaving Seton Hall & PC & St. John's behind to go play North Carolina.

No basketball-only school has won the basketball national title since Villanova in 1985 (UConn was transitioning to I-A in 1999). Only two have even PLAYED for the title since then.

The basketball-only fanbases really, truly, do not get it. And for gosh sakes, if you're only going to spend money on basketball, how come they almost never come close to the Final Four, yet alone winning the title? Talk about a waste of time.

Nice clueless rant, no relevant facts that explain anything related to Big East football.

Football schools get a greater share of the money. The Big East generates more money from basketball than football anyway. Still, they have yet to negotiate a new TV deal which would give football schools all the football related money.

The tournament became the BCS tournament years ago. So that point is invalid. Only recently have mid-major basketball conferences gotten a few at large bids. Of course if the tournament excludes a majority of the basketball only schools, the winner is going to be a football school. And some of the football schools are in name only. Duke plays football, really? Have you seen them play? How about Indiana?

No, there is no valid reason the conference could not have a football league. I suspect when everything is over it will. Schools are changing conferences from all sports conferences, Utah, TCU, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri as well as the Big East moves. Every school has a seperate agenda.

 

[Druken Friar]

Because the schools aren't equal. They don't have the same agenda. They don't have the same expenses and don't generate the same revenue. Gavitt had a clue: he knew that it was going to be unfair to the football schools. That is why he talked about them going to the ACC many years ago. When ND joined, with it's own agenda, the Big East was like a three-legged stool; the problem being that each leg was a different length. The three legs made the conference unstable and an easy target, IMO. I'd also say that it is only now that the basketball schools have realized the flaw. They were bleating about breaking away from the football schools until they realized that, at this point in time, the best basketball schools are also the football schools.

So you feel the football schools in the Big East have been underpaid, is that it?

Every league has problems with members getting along. The more members the more issues. Why is the Big 12(now 10?) struggling to stay together? Why did the Big 8 fail, the Sout West Conference fail or the 16 team WAC split in two? Do you think the BB onlies would object to the formation of a single sport football conference with it's own commissioner and TV deal? I don't.
Hybrid conference is way too simplistic an answer. The Big East is unique but that doesn't have to be a weakness.

 

[The Funster]

So you feel the football schools in the Big East have been underpaid, is that it?

No, "underpaid" is too simplistic. I think the Big East has been like the proverbial "apples and oranges" with a "pear" thrown in for good measure. An organization with divergent forces working within it is going to be either weaker or more fragile than an organization that is all pulling in the same direction. The member schools have to be willing to cede some of their own desires for the good of the conference.

Every league has problems with members getting along. The more members the more issues. Why is the Big 12(now 10?) struggling to stay together? Why did the Big 8 fail, the Sout West Conference fail or the 16 team WAC split in two? Do you think the BB onlies would object to the formation of a single sport football conference with it's own commissioner and TV deal? I don't.
Hybrid conference is way too simplistic an answer. The Big East is unique but that doesn't have to be a weakness.

The Big 12 is getting pulled apart because it isn't unified. It isn't moving forward as a unit. Texas has it's own deal it wants to protect, Missouri has tried to bolt twice. Even now, after allegedly offering WVU, the conference has done an about face. The SWAC was destroyed by recruiting infractions more than anything and the survivors of the conference and the Big 8 made the Big 12. The Big 12, again, is an alliance more than anything else. Look at the ACC. The best school for the conference, by consensus, would have been UConn. Instead the conference acquiesces to a member schools fear of competition and so they take another school. A strong, unified conference would have picked the best fit for the confererence overall. The ACC and Big 12 conferences do not project unity.

I'd say the SEC and Big 10 are prety stable and unified. The B1G looks at Missouri and as a group decide no. Northwestern asks for clarity about it's future as a B1G member and they get it. The Pac 12 wanted to expand it's footprint and did so logically and then, when it could have allegedly pulled a coup, backed away from Texas and OU because a) Texas would be divisive and b) as a conference decided that travel would not be fair to it more northern schools. Those are 3 conferences that project unity.

 

[Druken Friar]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I still think the Big East will have a football league when all is done. Who remains is another matter.

 

[The Funster]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I still think the Big East will have a football league when all is done. Who remains is another matter.

They very well could but it would have to function as a seperate entity from the bb onlies. It would still be a temporary holding place, IMO.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Why can't a league like the Big East work? You and several others say this like it's a fact but provide no evidence. How did you reach this conclusion?

My belief is that the only thing that had been holding this thing together is that (save one member) no school with the opportunity to move on to another major conference would remain. We've kept this conference solely because the bulk of the membership had no other legitimate choice.

People continue to speak about this conference as being successful but if this were true, why would are we continually losing schools? Why is ND trying to work out a deal with one (or more) of the ACC, B-12 & B1G? Why have Nova and Georgetown begun inquiring about what possibilities they may have if they were to leave the BE? The only non-football members who appear to be somewhat content with the hybrid arrangement are ND (as it allows them to compete in a major conference for their olympic sports while remaining independent) and Marquette (who I'm guessing views an association with ND, UConn, Nova et al as vastly superior than anything they've enjoyed since McGuire retired).