Notre Dame targeting $75 million annual media rights payout in quest to remain independent (Dodd)

[bobbyinaz]

Could Fox offer ND 75-80M a year in the B1G and pay out the rest of the B1G at 60-65M? I don’t know. Would the B1G allow this. This could be the start of a tiered payment system. Would be interesting. If the math works based on advertising and I’m NBC I‘d pay ND what they are asking. There’s a lot of eyeballs on ND games and it also allows NBC to promote other NBC content.

No

 

[goldendomer]

Could Fox offer ND 75-80M a year in the B1G and pay out the rest of the B1G at 60-65M? I don’t know. Would the B1G allow this. This could be the start of a tiered payment system. Would be interesting. If the math works based on advertising and I’m NBC I‘d pay ND what they are asking. There’s a lot of eyeballs on ND games and it also allows NBC to promote other NBC content.

If we join the Big 10 it will be as an equal partner. They may make an allowance for our games on NBC if the contract goes to them.

 

[TerryD]

Terry, If I recall correctly Notre Dame also made a promise that it would only join the ACC, if it joined a football conference prior to 2036. Did I get that right? What’s the remedy for that if they breach?

I totally get that they don’t anticipate joining another conference, or any conference for that matter, but I wondered what the contract said and I am too lazy to Google it.

The contract states that if ND football joins any conference before 2036, it must be the ACC.

IF ND football joins another conference before 2036, it is in breach of that contract with the ACC. It would pay damages, probably a negotiated settlement.

Staying independent and getting a big NBC payout means no payments at all to the ACC. Let the clock run out on the GOR.

 

[Billy Jack]

If ND can get that kind of money with an independent deal with NBC, then it doesn't have to pay a dime to the ACC to get that.

Everything else stays the same. ND would get around $90-95 million a year (with ACC partial payment and ACC Network full share) and no legal fees, exit fees, GOR buyout, etc..

Then, the clock continues to tick/wind down on the ACC GOR and other contracts and ND is still sitting there, with options (unless the Big Ten or SEC won't want them then, a risk ND is willing to take).

I think that ND tripling it’s money from NBC is a pipe dream. (Currently getting $25 mill.) but even if they did, I don’t see how they are getting to $90-95 million. They’re currently getting less than $11 million from the ACC. In your scenario, there would have to be a massive infusion of new money without anything else changing. How is that happening?

 

[shizzle787]

I think that ND tripling it’s money from NBC is a pipe dream. (Currently getting $25 mill.) but even if they did, I don’t see how they are getting to $90-95 million. They’re currently getting less than $11 million from the ACC. In your scenario, there would have to be a massive infusion of new money without anything else changing. How is that happening?

They are getting 15 million from NBC, and I would not be shocked if NBC ponied up.

 

[TerryD]

I think that ND tripling it’s money from NBC is a pipe dream. (Currently getting $25 mill.) but even if they did, I don’t see how they are getting to $90-95 million. They’re currently getting less than $11 million from the ACC. In your scenario, there would have to be a massive infusion of new money without anything else changing. How is that happening?

ND gets a full conference member share of ACC Network profits, about $5-7 million.

It gets $10-12 million from the ACC/ESPN for its other sports.

That is about $15-19 million a year.

Add that to the hypothetical $75 million from NBC and you get to around $90-95 million a year for ND from media/conference payouts.

 

[hoopsfan22]

They are getting 15 million from NBC, and I would not be shocked if NBC ponied up.

$75m/yr is an insane amount of money for a teeny tiny school with a fan base that is dying off.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't see any reason for Notre Dame to join a conference. If anything, streaming makes it easier to stay independent. I am a little surprised USC and Texas didn't try it.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I don't see any reason for Notre Dame to join a conference. If anything, streaming makes it easier to stay independent. I am a little surprised USC and Texas didn't try it.

Conferences will use their size to freeze out others that refuse to join the cartel. You can try to stay independent, but we're heading toward a world where the college football championship will be between the top team in the $EC and the top team in the B1G. There will be no incentive for them to grant independents, and other P5 or G5 teams access. You're either in one of those conferences, or you're relegated to playing for a participation trophy.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Conferences will use their size to freeze out others that refuse to join the cartel. You can try to stay independent, but we're heading toward a world where the college football championship will be between the top team in the $EC and the top team in the B1G. There will be no incentive for them to grant independents, and other P5 or G5 teams access. You're either in one of those conferences, or you're relegated to playing for a participation trophy.

Right. The B1G and SEC will use their size and relative strength to induce other conferences to align with them for scheduling in other sports beyond football. You can align and play by their rules or sit on the outside and not participate. But the days of the Knights of the Round Table where every school and vote has equal weighting are over.

 

[billybud]

Media contract income has, heretofore, made up only a portion of the total budget for an athletic department...

Example..Clemson receives $36 million from ESPN and had an AD budget of $132 million and FSU had a budget of $150 million....both schools made budget cutbacks during covid to allow for lack of game attendance attendant monies.

The burgeoning media contracts in the SEC and B1G will be difficult to compete against...now...FSU's AD budget currently is more than Michigan State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Auburn, and Iowa....that will shift as the SEC and Big Ten start rolling up the Brinks trucks.

 

[dayooper]

Media contract income has, heretofore, made up only a portion of the total budget for an athletic department...

Example..Clemson receives $36 million from ESPN and had an AD budget of $132 million and FSU had a budget of $150 million....both schools made budget cutbacks during covid to allow for lack of game attendance attendant monies.

The burgeoning media contracts in the SEC and B1G will be difficult to compete against...now...FSU's AD budget currently is more than Michigan State, Arkansas, South Carolina, Auburn, and Iowa....that will shift as the SEC and Big Ten start rolling up the Brinks trucks.

Yes, it will. We already saw 1 major school jump their home to the a P2 conference because of an underfunded AD. You have to wonder how the AD’s of UNC, UVA and others that have comprehensive Olympic sports programs are getting along. Those schools don’t have huge football attendance and they can’t charge the higher ticket prices and PSL fees that the big football schools do.

 

[billybud]

UNC's AD has had a surplus after expenses...they don't operate at as much of a high expenditure as some programs...and they don't really attempt to be a top football program...they seem happy winning men's basketball, fielf hockey, soccer, womem's lacrosse and the like.

 

[billybud]

My guess is that the Tobacco Road schools are gleeful about the possibility of football in the ACC taking a back seat.....those football lowlifes from Clemson, FSU, Miami never really fit in the club.

Heck, they don't even have a lacrosse team.

 

[JeepCSC]

State and Carolina have boosters who are big into football, but the ROI has always been such that there has been concerns pushed by administrators for sure. You’ll see the power struggle with every football hire. Mack being brought back was a win for the football boosters for instance.

One of the problems with the state of NC is that while it has a lots of talent, there are 4 power conference teams, more than any other state besides Cali and Texas. And NC doesn’t have the talent depth of those two states. And then you got the 8 power conference programs in neighboring states. Both UNC and State would benefit from a winnowing of the power conference structure as long as they were in the right side of the bubble.

 

[ramses 2.0]

Yes, it will. We already saw 1 major school jump their home to the a P2 conference because of an underfunded AD. You have to wonder how the AD’s of UNC, UVA and others that have comprehensive Olympic sports programs are getting along. Those schools don’t have huge football attendance and they can’t charge the higher ticket prices and PSL fees that the big football schools do.

UNC has a large scholarship endowment that covers 70-80% of cost plus each individual sport has it's own operating endowment for each coach to use as they see fit.

 

[ramses 2.0]

My guess is that the Tobacco Road schools are gleeful about the possibility of football in the ACC taking a back seat.....those football lowlifes from Clemson, FSU, Miami never really fit in the club.

Heck, they don't even have a lacrosse team.

Not really, UNC needs both BB &FB to sustain the broad based AD it has long term with FB being thae largest untapped revenue on campus. So FB has to be somewhat relevant to keep the money coming in

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Conferences will use their size to freeze out others that refuse to join the cartel. You can try to stay independent, but we're heading toward a world where the college football championship will be between the top team in the $EC and the top team in the B1G. There will be no incentive for them to grant independents, and other P5 or G5 teams access. You're either in one of those conferences, or you're relegated to playing for a participation trophy.

Which conferences will use their size? The Big 10 and SEC? Maybe if they grew to 25 teams each. I doubt that 16 teams that are more or less regionally based and half of whom no one outside their own alums care about are enough to get market power.

And if the "P2" are somehow successful in excluding everyone else, they will have made college athletics small and concentrated enough that the NBA and NFL will be able to smother it with a pillow and take over college athletics' role as the minor league for those two sports. The other problem the NBA and NFL will see that apparently the colleges don't is that shrinking the fan base for basketball and football hurts everyone, not just the schools that are excluded. The NBA and NFL could wipe college athletics off the map with a stroke of the pen. All they would have to do is institute the same draft eligibility rules that MLB has for college players, and they would turn college basketball and football into college baseball. None of the top players would go to college.

Pro sports are about the name on the back of the jersey, but college sports are about the name on the front. If whatever the regulatory body for college is continues to exclude teams, they will simply be shrinking their fan base. Colleges realized this in the past when they would set objective criteria for colleges to upgrade their programs. The majors realized that a new school trying to compete didn't cost them much, and created more fans for the sport as a whole. They seem to have forgotten that recently.

 

[Billy Jack]

Could Fox offer ND 75-80M a year in the B1G and pay out the rest of the B1G at 60-65M? I don’t know. Would the B1G allow this. This could be the start of a tiered payment system. Would be interesting. If the math works based on advertising and I’m NBC I‘d pay ND what they are asking. There’s a lot of eyeballs on ND games and it also allows NBC to promote other NBC content.

Why would the B1G want to do that?

 

[Billy Jack]

Which conferences will use their size? The Big 10 and SEC? Maybe if they grew to 25 teams each. I doubt that 16 teams that are more or less regionally based and half of whom no one outside their own alums care about are enough to get market power.

And if the "P2" are somehow successful in excluding everyone else, they will have made college athletics small and concentrated enough that the NBA and NFL will be able to smother it with a pillow and take over college athletics' role as the minor league for those two sports. The other problem the NBA and NFL will see that apparently the colleges don't is that shrinking the fan base for basketball and football hurts everyone, not just the schools that are excluded. The NBA and NFL could wipe college athletics off the map with a stroke of the pen. All they would have to do is institute the same draft eligibility rules that MLB has for college players, and they would turn college basketball and football into college baseball. None of the top players would go to college.

Pro sports are about the name on the back of the jersey, but college sports are about the name on the front. If whatever the regulatory body for college is continues to exclude teams, they will simply be shrinking their fan base. Colleges realized this in the past when they would set objective criteria for colleges to upgrade their programs. The majors realized that a new school trying to compete didn't cost them much, and created more fans for the sport as a whole. They seem to have forgotten that recently.

This is about making conferences bigger. It’s about getting the big revenue producers under a smaller number of umbrellas so they can keep more money and not share it with programs that don’t bringing their fair share.

I can see the B1G and SEC growing to 20 or 24 but only with the right combination of members.

I can’t see basketball contracting in the same way that football is. The tournament is too successful. With only 5 players on a basketball team, it’s much easier to build a basketball power house than one in football. If the B1G and SEC tried to control basketball, the other schools would simply have their own tournament and fans would come is the competition and quality were good enough - which it likely would be. There’s also the factor that basketball dynasties seem to develop at colleges at which football is not a power - Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina, UCLA, UConn, Kansas, etc. So, 2 or 3 conferences built around football are not necessarily going to be attractive to top basketball players and coaches.

 

[Waquoit]

Pro sports are about the name on the back of the jersey, but college sports are about the name on the front. If whatever the regulatory body for college is continues to exclude teams, they will simply be shrinking their fan base.

I really can't understand how the powers that be don't understand this.

 

[Hoophound]

I really can't understand how the powers that be don't understand this.

Maybe they don't care because they'll have money for now. Keep in mind, if you flood a business with money, the executives and upper management get their hands on much, if not all of it. They are making these decisions.

 

[CL82]

So, 2 or 3 conferences built around football are not necessarily going to be attractive to top basketball players and coaches.

Perhaps not, but the salaries the schools from those conferences will be able to offer, that no one else will be able to match, will almost certainly be.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Perhaps not, but the salaries the schools from those conferences will be able to offer, that no one else will be able to match, will almost certainly be.

Not only that but, they will continue to change rules to use that boatload of cash against everyone else.

Everyone was excited to see that UConn paid its hoops players the max Alston award of $2990. What happens when the Big 2 make the max $25K or more? How many outside of the Big 2 can afford that?

The hoops tournament is a double-edged sword in that it has immense popularity with the masses and the NCAA makes hundreds of millions, but it generates little money for the individual conferences in relation.

March Madness Daily: ACC, Big Ten Earn $36.4 million From Tourney

Units from the 2022 NCAA tournament will pay roughly $36.4 million to the ACC and Big Ten over the next six years. The Big 12 was third.

www.sportico.com

At some point the Big 2 will come for the hoops money. They look at an $800+MM pie and see the most they can earn is $36MM. To think there isn't a huge change coming, IMO, is just naive.

What the future hoops tournament looks like or how many schools will be involved is certainly yet to be determined but there will be changes. There's too much money at stake for there not to be.

 

[Billy Jack]

Perhaps not, but the salaries the schools from those conferences will be able to offer, that no one else will be able to match, will almost certainly be.

I don’t know why it is, but college basketball coaches seem to have their biggest runs earlier in their careers before they hit the big money. You can buy big names, but you can’t necessarily buy success.

The big football schools have always had more resources, but the money tends to go back into football. Basketball, not so much. Notre Dame has been to 1 Final Four in school history. Same with Texas and Penn State. Oklahoma has been to 2. LSU to 3. Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Nebraska, and USC, none. Not a NC in the bunch