Notre Dame football: Tremors still shake Irish independence

[Rumrunner]

Notre Dame football: Tremors still shake Irish independence

It’s the still-shaking college sports terrain that keeps Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick away from absolutes.

The Big East reacted to recent defections of Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia by getting bigger but less Eastern.

Central Florida, SMU and Houston will be joining in all sports, Boise State and San Diego State in football only. And Navy has pledged to join the football-only contingent sometime after 2013.

http://www.wsbt.com/sports/sbt-notr...e-irish-independence-20111217,0,1947084.story

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The writer is the beat writer for the South Bend Tribune.

 

[CTGoonie]

Not much in the article but I find it curious that Swarbrick would agree to do an interview about this subject unless he was hinting about a future course of action. If there was no chance of ND joining a conference he would not have said this "There is so much going on,” Swarbrick told the South Bend Tribune in a phone interview. “Right now there’s a lot of discussion about postseason and what the future’s going to look like. That’s obviously a factor for us."

 

[businesslawyer]

I am not saying that Notre Dame will join a conference for football in the near future. But, if and when they join, it will be the announcment of a done deal with very little warning to alumni ahead of time that it is a possibility.

And they have to be consdidering it. Because if the BCS tie in with all bowls but the championship game is abolished, they run the risk that all the major bowls want to lock up picks from the major conferences and aren't willing to keep a slot open hoping Notre Dame has a good year (especially given how few years they've had for the past generation).

 

[MattMang23]

BL, to play devil's advocate, if all bowl tie-ins were abolished, wouldn't bowls not need to keep a slot open just in case ND has a strong year? After all, they would choose who participates at the end of the reg. season. If ND is good, they'd be selected. If they're not, they wouldn't be. No slot would be kept warm, they'd just choose someone else. Such a system would favor ND, no? For ND no tie-in to worry about, just play well and you'll go.

 

[BlueMAB]

BL, to play devil's advocate, if all bowl tie-ins were abolished, wouldn't bowls not need to keep a slot open just in case ND has a strong year? After all, they would choose who participates at the end of the reg. season. If ND is good, they'd be selected. If they're not, they wouldn't be. No slot would be kept warm, they'd just choose someone else. Such a system would favor ND, no? For ND no tie-in to worry about, just play well and you'll go.

I think BL is saying if the "BCS" is abolished, those bowls may go back to tie-ins with the conferences directly, and Notre Dame could be left out. Negotiations would have to be made to decide how 8 slots in the major bowls go to teams from 5 (but likely 4) conferences.

The BCS could be done away with, the BCS bowls have shown they aren't very interested in the Big East (who's representative seems to always be picked by the BCS bowl that doesn't have a choice). IF AQ status is eliminated, I highly doubt that any major bowl outside the Orange would be interested in the Big East over the #1/#2 option from the other power conferences. I would bet my house that the Orange would only be interested in the Big East with a Notre Dame clause. Waylon will claim I am; but I'm not making the argument that this is a good decision by the Orange bowl. I don't think it would be smart for them to exclude a UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, etc. But I think they'd do it anyway if they were guaranteed an SEC and ACC or B1G/Big XII representative every year. The bowls could work out a rotation with the following hypothetical arrangement where they leave ND and the Big East out.

Rose Bowl-B!G #1/2 vs Pac 12 #1/2
Fiesta- B!G #1/2 vs Pac 12 #1/2
Sugar- SEC #1/2 vs ACC#1/2
Orange- SEC #1/2 vs ACC #1/2

Would the major bowls be willing to pass on ND if they are guaranteed to never have to invite Hawaii? I don't know, but I would bet the Sugar Bowl doesn't care about Notre Dame knowing they have an SEC playing against any ACC/B!G/Big XII team.

 

[whaler11]

I could see Notre Dame still being tied into the Fiesta. In those scenarios you don't actually get #1 and #2 from two of the conferences you get #2 and #3 or potentially this year #3 and #4.

I'd see it more like
Rose B10/Pac12
Sugar SEC/Big12
Orange ACC/(SEC/B10)
Fiesta Big12/(Pac12/B10/SEC/Notre Dame/Random 12-0 team)

 

[businesslawyer]

I think BL is saying if the "BCS" is abolished, those bowls may go back to tie-ins with the conferences directly, and Notre Dame could be left out. Negotiations would have to be made to decide how 8 slots in the major bowls go to teams from 5 (but likely 4) conferences.

That is what I am saying. The Orange would know before the seaston starts it would be ACC Champ vs the SEC #3 and other bowls would make similar arrangements. No one would leave a spot for the Irish, who may or may not get there, over the SEC #3 or the Big Ten #2

 

[Nostical]

Don't underestimate the influence and clout of ESPN/ABC/Disney and CBS (who have big investments in the SEC, ACC, Big !2, etc. and want to diminish the influence of NBC/Comcast) to lobby the BCS Bowls to not make an exception, or leave a valuable spot open, for an Independant Notre Dame.

 

[whaler11]

That is what I am saying. The Orange would know before the seaston starts it would be ACC Champ vs the SEC #3 and other bowls would make similar arrangements. No one would leave a spot for the Irish, who may or may not get there, over the SEC #3 or the Big Ten #2

With no #1 vs. #2 then Notre Dame's ability to get to those games would look a lot bleaker.

 

[huskyjawz]

Don't underestimate the influence and clout of ESPN/ABC/Disney and CBS (who have big investments in the SEC, ACC, Big !2, etc. and want to diminish the influence of NBC/Comcast) to lobby the BCS Bowls to not make an exception, or leave a valuable spot open, for an Independant Notre Dame.

They have no incentive to keep Notre Dame out of the game. If ND has a good enough record to be in the game, then the ratings will be higher with them in the game then not, so why wouldn't the broadcaster want them?

 

[Nostical]

Yes, they would want them in the game, but not as an Independant. There is no economic incentive for CBS or Disney to make the product watched on NBC more valuable. They would rather force ND to a conference where they could share in some of that gold in the golden dome, and also serve to weaken the NBC brand. Thus, if the new BCS rules (influenced by ESPN--the broadcast venue) also serve to make conference affiliation the key, so much the better for them.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

They have no incentive to keep Notre Dame out of the game. If ND has a good enough record to be in the game, then the ratings will be higher with them in the game then not, so why wouldn't the broadcaster want them?

Exactly, no bowl would make it impossible for Notre Dame to be invited. That really doesn't make sense for the Bowl. Notre Dame is the most well known college football program in the country. Any bowl would prefer them over almost any of the schools from any conference. If anything I see them making it easier to select Notre Dame if conference champs no longer get auto bids.

 

[BlueMAB]

Exactly, no bowl would make it impossible for Notre Dame to be invited. That really doesn't make sense for the Bowl. Notre Dame is the most well known college football program in the country. Any bowl would prefer them over almost any of the schools from any conference. If anything I see them making it easier to select Notre Dame if conference champs no longer get auto bids.

You guys seem to be forgetting

1) the conferences have a say in the matter
2) there are other networks willing to bid on broadcasting the bowl games.

Yout don't think CBS, the SEC, the B!G, and the Sugar Bowl would be willing to come to an agreement that excludes Notre Dame? CBS, the ACC, the Orange Bowl and Big 12 (especially with WVU and possibly Louisville in the Big 12)? The Rose Bowl would probably love to go back to B!G/Pac 12, I think they would exclude Notre Dame if it means no more TCUs.

I'm not saying ND will definitely get left out, but it's a possiblity, and it may be a risk they aren't willing to take.

 

[freescooter]

I think the Rose Bowl would got back to the B-10-PAC12 champ in a New York minute if they could. That is basically their identity. But I also think that neither the Orange Bowl nor the Sugar would be willing to make a dealwithout Notre Dame. The Orange mainly because it is the weakest of the "majors" and the Sugar because New Orleans is at its heart a strange but fairly Catholic city, at least by Southern standards. There might be a risk, but in my mind it would be pretty small that a major bowl would not take a top 10-15 ranked Irish team.

 

[SubbaBub]

The proposed BCS format of a single championship game will help ND. The Rose contracts with the BIG/P12. The Sugar contracts with the SEC. The Fiesta/Orange/Cotton fight over the B12. One of the losers gets the ACC champ. The other bowls compete for the next best picks from the SEC, BIG, B12. The rest are left with the scraps of the other leagues. ND if not frozen out gets to make its own deals on an annual basis with any bowl not to have committed slots. At least 2-3 of the big 5 bowls will be able to pick up ND.

ND lives in fear of the widespread 9 game conference schedule. That or a playoff with autobids will be the tipping point for ND to.give up its independence. I doubt all 5 of the future BCS level bowls will lock up both slots. ND will be fine if they win 9 games.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[Fishy]

First, I think the Big East should apologize if our death throes have caused Notre Dame 'tremors'. We really need to be more considerate in this holiday season as Notre Dame prepares to celebrate the birth of Jesus and his subsequent creation of their football program.

Second, I think Notre Dame is fine in every scenario imaginable, save one - the complete implosion of the Big East Conference. Everthing short of that is mere inconvenience, but if the Big 12 or Big 10 or ACC steps on our air hose one more time, Notre Dame will have some decisions to make.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I seem to recall Notre Dame playing in quite a few Orange, Sugar and Cotton bowls before the advent of the BCS. Why does anyone think it would be different once the BCS implodes?

Since the basic proposal is to keep the #1 v #2 game, the bowl tie-ins will all have caveats and outs. Yes the Rose will be Pac vs B1G, but if Oregon is in the title game, they'll have the right to pick who they want. The other bowls will do the same. Notre Dame will be fine if they win.

For those of you thinking the NBE will be fine, Boise St. our new flagship, has been stuck in the crappy Vegas bowl two years in a row. Florida, at 6-6, landed a much better bowl (home field for sure) , as did several others.

 

[BlueMAB]

I seem to recall Notre Dame playing in quite a few Orange, Sugar and Cotton bowls before the advent of the BCS. Why does anyone think it would be different once the BCS implodes?

I don't think they get shut out either, but there is a possibility. I can see the Rose and Sugar not caring about Notre Dame one bit. The Orange and Fiesta would be the key. Does the Orange "settle" for ACC and SEC#2/3? Does the Fiesta "settle" for Pac 12 #2/B!G #2 and Big 12#1?

There are more teams in the major conferences than ever before, so their pool of "top tier" teams has grown.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I don't think they get shut out either, but there is a possibility. I can see the Rose and Sugar not caring about Notre Dame one bit. The Orange and Fiesta would be the key. Does the Orange "settle" for ACC and SEC#2/3? Does the Fiesta "settle" for Pac 12 #2/B!G #2 and Big 12#1?

There are more teams in the major conferences than ever before, so their pool of "top tier" teams has grown.

Just because those teams are in top conferences doesn't mean that the bowls would actually like the idea of shutting Notre Dame out in favor of them though.

 

[John Greene]

The only way to come with a scenario where an independent ND is shut out of anything but the Rose Bowl is to spin some sort of convulated conspiracy yarn involving the SEC, Big12? and ACC. Short of that ND is back in the position it enjojed before of regularly being invited to a "big" bowl with a worse record than any other invited school.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The only way to come with a scenario where an independent ND is shut out of anything but the Rose Bowl is to spin some sort of convulated conspiracy yarn involving the SEC, Big12? and ACC. Short of that ND is back in the position it enjojed before of regularly being invited to a "big" bowl with a worse record than any other invited school.

Definitely. If they get rid of the AQ bids Notre Dame will be going to way more big time bowls.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

I think BL is saying if the "BCS" is abolished, those bowls may go back to tie-ins with the conferences directly, and Notre Dame could be left out. Negotiations would have to be made to decide how 8 slots in the major bowls go to teams from 5 (but likely 4) conferences.

The BCS could be done away with, the BCS bowls have shown they aren't very interested in the Big East (who's representative seems to always be picked by the BCS bowl that doesn't have a choice). IF AQ status is eliminated, I highly doubt that any major bowl outside the Orange would be interested in the Big East over the #1/#2 option from the other power conferences. I would bet my house that the Orange would only be interested in the Big East with a Notre Dame clause. Waylon will claim I am; but I'm not making the argument that this is a good decision by the Orange bowl. I don't think it would be smart for them to exclude a UConn, Rutgers, Louisville, South Florida, etc. But I think they'd do it anyway if they were guaranteed an SEC and ACC or B1G/Big XII representative every year. The bowls could work out a rotation with the following hypothetical arrangement where they leave ND and the Big East out.

Rose Bowl-B!G #1/2 vs Pac 12 #1/2
Fiesta- B!G #1/2 vs Pac 12 #1/2
Sugar- SEC #1/2 vs ACC#1/2
Orange- SEC #1/2 vs ACC #1/2

Would the major bowls be willing to pass on ND if they are guaranteed to never have to invite Hawaii? I don't know, but I would bet the Sugar Bowl doesn't care about Notre Dame knowing they have an SEC playing against any ACC/B!G/Big XII team.

The BCS provided a precise definition for when ND could be invited to a major bowl. Prior, 3 loss ND teams were being chosen, especially by the Cotton (then a "major"), over, according to non-TV media, more deserving teams.

Somehow, even with a number of mediocre to bad seasons, ND remains relevant. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that, lacking the BCS, the "major" bowls (other than the Rose Bowl) will try to tie-up a major conference for one slot and hold out for a "most worthy" (not best) opponent.

Most of this will be dictated by TV.

 

[BlueMAB]

Just because those teams are in top conferences doesn't mean that the bowls would actually like the idea of shutting Notre Dame out in favor of them though.

The conferences would. And they are a party to all of this, not just TV and the bowls. As I said, I don't think ND gets shut out, just pointing out it is a possibility. Based on comments out of South Bend, they are not ignoring it, no matter how unlikely.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

ND will not get shut out of a new bowl set up. No bowl in it's right mind would willfully do that. They're still an enormous ticket draw, and if they're good enough to be in a BCS bowl, a huge TV draw. You think they're ready to take ACC champ Clemson over ND? Keep dreaming. The bowls also know ND can put up one hell of a stink in the media, and everyone will listen. The minute ND becomes one of the "outsiders", you can bet public opinion on the bowls will change quite a bit. It won't be that a bunch of low-level nobodies are complaining that they don't have a shot, it'll be the storied ND, no matter how little the program has achieved in recent years. The big bowls want ND on their side. They'll be in any new set up.