Notre Dame Beat Writer

[jostar1]

ChiTribHamilton Brian Hamilton

Mizzou to SEC? Louisville & W.Virginia to Big 12? If so, gotta think #NotreDame, ACC talk everything-but-football deal sooner than later.
6 hours ago

http://twitter.com/#!/ChiTribHamilton



The league officially announced plans to expand earlier this week, but that doesn't necessarily mean the additions coalesce neatly with Notre Dame's ambitions, in Brey's mind.
"Losing Syracuse and Pittsburgh are big hits, absolutely, for us," Brey said. "And I don't know if we're going to be an eight-bid league anymore, losing that kind of power. So it's going to be interesting to see who we add -- and is it a fit for us?"
What Brey said he made clear to athletic director Jack Swarbrick was the need to mantain that connection to the East Coast no matter what occurs. That's about as close to crystal ball-reading as either coach came Wednesday, given that the ACC provides the only viable East Coast option outside of the Big East.
"I'm hopeful we can keep the Big East together," Brey said. "If not, I think we really need the East, something in the East. That's my opinion."
McGraw, meanwhile, lamented the possibility of losing the rivalry with powerhouse Connecticut.
"We've got such a great league, especially on the women's side," McGraw said. "We've had great success for the past 15 years, and Connecticut has been a big part of that.
"They definitely are the reason the Big East has the credibility and respect and reputation that it has, because of what they've done. They're the measuring stick for every team in the country. It's great to have them in our conference."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-13/sports/chi-notre-dame-hoops-coaches-uneasy-about-big-east-20111012_1_muffet-mcgraw-big-east-purcell-pavilion

 

[TRest]

I don't believe the ACC would allow ND in without bringing football. I do believe if NDhas a say in what school comes with them, it would be UConn.

 

[junglehusky]

Good find jostar.

 

[SubbaBub]

Good article. As long as we aren't the ones who push them out, we should get a favorable recommendation to tag along to the ACC or BIG. There is still much to play out.

ND preferences are pretty clear, but what they ultimately do will be interesting.

Clearly, they would prefer to stay in the NNBE. What if that fails?

I think their first move is to look for a nonFB deal with the ACC. Which might not trigger a need for 16 teams.

Next, they would.probably look a the catholic league an decide if playing in MSG is worth the lost firepower of the FB schools.

Then, they might look to the B12 for a nonFB deal, but pass for geographic reasons.

Now it gets interesting, full.membership in either the ACC or the BIG. The BIG would assure spots for Uconn and Rutgers. The ACC only guarantees one spot. All projections aside, we have no idea who gets it. The league would want Uconn but they likely let ND choose.



Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[Nostical]

In addition to the other football and market considerations already discuussed, both the ACC and The BIg Ten need UConn to support their non-football interests. For example, ND's Muffin McGraw spoke for every school that puts money into its women's BBall programs. Losing UConn is like the PGA Tour losing Tiger Woods. Some on this board are treating UConn like the girl who's always asking if she's really pretty. Susan Herbst isn't begging. She's just persistently making sure those other folks have noticed that the librarian in the bun and glasses has let her hair down and has contact lenses. We are actually drop dead gorgeous.

 

[CTFootball]

Nice find - this is the dreaded scenario that I had posted in another thread. ACC takes ND for nonfootball sports and realizes it doesn't need to add a 16th team to share the upside. 15 probably still works good for scheduling (3 5-team pods). I still believe the ACC would be better to add the 16th if Uconn to shore up B-ball once and for all.

 

[NutmegState]

Nice find - this is the dreaded scenario that I had posted in another thread. ACC takes ND for nonfootball sports and realizes it doesn't need to add a 16th team to share the upside. 15 probably still works good for scheduling (3 5-team pods). I still believe the ACC would be better to add the 16th if Uconn to shore up B-ball once and for all.

Coach K is dead set against any pod system. Roy Williams, Coach K, and Maryland are all openly lobbying to go to 16.

They'll be going to 16, question is who and when.

 

[CTFootball]

Coach K is dead set against any pod system. Roy Williams, Coach K, and Maryland are all openly lobbying to go to 16.

They'll be going to 16, question is who and when.

If he is adamant against pods, they could consider 3 divisions or keep just 1 large division (which is what I believe the Big 10 does). Bottom lin is 14 for football works and 15 for b-ball could as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The other question here is how appealing the BB BE schools can make the remaining league. If they land Xavier, Butler and St. Joes, is that enough to keep ND? In Men's hoops it might be, but women's takes a big hit, along with soccer, lacrosse etc.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Nice find - this is the dreaded scenario that I had posted in another thread. ACC takes ND for nonfootball sports and realizes it doesn't need to add a 16th team to share the upside. 15 probably still works good for scheduling (3 5-team pods). I still believe the ACC would be better to add the 16th if Uconn to shore up B-ball once and for all.

That would give them 15 football schools if they added ND for non-football and UConn for all sports which is a no go. If they took ND for non-football that would open the door for Georgetown or Nova to sneak in there as well and once the BE starts getting raided for basketball schools you know it's completely dead. I could see them adding ND and Georgetown and just having a 16 team basketball league like has worked out so well for the BE and staying at 14 for football. True nightmare scenario.

 

[CTFootball]

That would give them 15 football schools if they added ND for non-football and UConn for all sports which is a no go. If they took ND for non-football that would open the door for Georgetown or Nova to sneak in there as well and once the BE starts getting raided for basketball schools you know it's completely dead. I could see them adding ND and Georgetown and just having a 16 team basketball league like has worked out so well for the BE and staying at 14 for football. True nightmare scenario.

I'm afraid The ACC would take ND only. In your scenario (UCONN and ND), 16 for B-ball and 15 for football (ND could stay independent in the near term and convert to F-ball at a later date when necessary.

I'm not proposing this option, just pointing out that it exists. If ND joined ACC for nonfootball sports, I still think ACC could wait for number 16.

 

[nycscooby]

I don't believe for a minute that the ACC would consider ND unless it was for all sports. No one's going to give ND that deal anymore - - it's one of the primary reasons why the BE got into its predicament in the first place. Only the boys in Providence were stupid enough to do this.

 

[RS9999X]

Here is a mashup of the top 10 Catholic States and 10 States with the most Catholics.​

Check the ACC for a fit for ND, Not good before raiding MA, NY, and PA.​

Adding UConn and you wrap up New England with BC but still leave a whole in the Central Atlantic-- RI, NJ, DC, Philly but otherwise have great presence in traditional Catholic states. Lose quite a bit in basketball in the Central Atlantic. Without UConn or Rutgers the ACC's Catholic Presence isn't all that convincing.​

Need we talk about Italian Catholics in Jersey and Philly and Providence and Hartford and Boston and 'their thing'. Or the Irish? Film "The Sopranos: in Atlanta? Nyaah. Pittsburgh? Nyaaah​

By culture: Top 10% Catholics​

Rhode Island:​

Massachusetts:​

New Mexico:​

New Jersey: ​

Vermont:​

New York:​

New Hampshire:​

California:​

Connecticut:​

Arizona:​

Illinois: ​

By population not already listed:​

Florida:​

Michigan:​

Ohio:​

Texas:​

Pennsylvania: ​

Wisconsin is in the top 15 on both lists

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I'm afraid The ACC would take ND only. In your scenario (UCONN and ND), 16 for B-ball and 15 for football (ND could stay independent in the near term and convert to F-ball at a later date when necessary.

I'm not proposing this option, just pointing out that it exists. If ND joined ACC for nonfootball sports, I still think ACC could wait for number 16.

Just to clarify, my scenario is that ND for non-football would equal UConn not going. I see no chance that the ACC would go to 15 for football and 16 for basketball by adding UConn for all sports and ND for non-football.

 

[CTFootball]

I don't believe for a minute that the ACC would consider ND unless it was for all sports. No one's going to give ND that deal anymore - - it's one of the primary reasons why the BE got into its predicament in the first place. Only the boys in Providence were stupid enough to do this.

I tend to agree with you but it could be a short-term option. ND keeps its current TV deal while being a nonfootball member. ND plays 4-5 ACC games, which can then be added to the ACC football rights (ND away games) and then ND converts at a later date to full-time status at a mutually agreed upon date (ACC and/or ND rights renewal date, next Superconference realignment, etc).

 

[metsfan2323]

That would give them 15 football schools if they added ND for non-football and UConn for all sports which is a no go. If they took ND for non-football that would open the door for Georgetown or Nova to sneak in there as well and once the BE starts getting raided for basketball schools you know it's completely dead. I could see them adding ND and Georgetown and just having a 16 team basketball league like has worked out so well for the BE and staying at 14 for football. True nightmare scenario.

You make a good point. 15 football schools doesn't make sense because you would have unbalanced divisions. They could just add Nova as the 16th school and have a 14 / 16 team league. I'm sure BC would lobby for this.

This is why the focus needs to be on keeping Big East football alive at all costs, otherwise we may end up in C USA.

 

[nycscooby]

I tend to agree with you but it could be a short-term option. ND keeps its current TV deal while being a nonfootball member. ND plays 4-5 ACC games, which can then be added to the ACC football rights (ND away games) and then ND converts at a later date to full-time status at a mutually agreed upon date (ACC and/or ND rights renewal date, next Superconference realignment, etc).

I really don't think so, it doesn't make sense for the ACC to jump now to add ND with a promise for its football at a later date. The ACC is totally fine at 14 and waiting to see what happens after the buzzards are done picking over the BE. I would suspect that the additions of Houston, SMU, UCF as full time members for all sports in and of itself is enough to have ND want to jump from the conference now let alone what might be coming if any of Ville, WVU or Cincy exit. ND will always have the choice to join any conference it wants as an all sports member. I think we all agree that the B10 and ACC are the likely destinations. ND does want access to the east coast media markets and its huge alumni base along the eastern seaboard so it may want to join the ACC over the B10. Either way, the ACC should just wait it out. If ND joins great for them and they can take us or Rutgers for 16. If ND joins the B10, they can take both UConn and Rutgers or stay at 14. There's no valid justification to treat ND differently from the other institutions in the conference and jump to take them without football.

 

[RS9999X]

16 works great for TV if they use one simple formula:

The teams plays 2 cross-division games based on their preseason polls and rankings including ACC Coaches.

In other words

Typical Tier 4: The Southern 7/8, Wake and Duke, would play Northern 7/8, BC and Rutgers most years
Typical Tier 3: The Southern 5/6, Miami and NC State, would play SU and UConn most years
Typical Tier 2: The Southern 3/4, G Tech and NC to play Maryland and Virginia most years .
Typical Tier 1: The Southern 1/2, FSU and V Tech would get Pitt and ND every year.

Looking at that its still a suck conference with few hopes of national games.

Isn't this a better schedule than ND can get in the ACC?

#15 Michigan State
#8 Stanford
Michigan
USC
Pittsburgh
Purdue
South Florida
Navy
Air Force
Boston College
Maryland
Wake Forest

 

[HuskyHawk]

16 works great for TV if they use one simple formula:

The teams plays 2 cross-division games based on their preseason polls and rankings including ACC Coaches.

In other words

Typical Tier 4: The Southern 7/8, Wake and Duke, would play Northern 7/8, BC and Rutgers most years
Typical Tier 3: The Southern 5/6, Miami and NC State, would play SU and UConn most years
Typical Tier 2: The Southern 3/4, G Tech and NC to play Maryland and Virginia most years .
Typical Tier 1: The Southern 1/2, FSU and V Tech would get Pitt and ND every year.

Looking at that its still a suck conference with few hopes of national games.

Isn't this a better schedule than ND can get in the ACC?

#15 Michigan State
#8 Stanford
Michigan
USC
Pittsburgh
Purdue
South Florida
Navy
Air Force
Boston College
Maryland
Wake Forest

This is why I don't believe the ND to the ACC noise. If they join, it's B1G. Three teams they play every year are there already. That leaves room to schedule USC every year, and Navy, maybe even BC. In any other conference all their normal rivalry games are out the window. If the B1G is smart, and I think it is very smart, they offer ND a package deal, where B1G takes UConn and Rutgers and agrees to put ND in the eastern division. Team 16 could be anybody, Iowa St., Kansas, they could try to poach BC or Maryland.

East: ND, Mich, Mich St., Penn St., RU, UConn, OSU, Purdue
West: Minn, Wisc, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern, Nebraska, IU, Kansas,

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

East: ND, Mich, Mich St., Penn St., RU, UConn, OSU, Purdue
,

I know it will never happen...but could you imagine our home schedule in this scenario? Our season ticket base would double within a year and our stadium expansion would be a no-brainer. Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn St, Ohio St....all as part of our routine schedule? Wow!.............now, back to reality!

 

[HuskyHawk]

I know it will never happen...but could you imagine our home schedule in this scenario? Our season ticket base would double within a year and our stadium expansion would be a no-brainer. Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn St, Ohio St....all as part of our routine schedule? Wow!.............now, back to reality!

Not only that, if they poached KU, the basketball league would top the new ACC. Adding UConn, ND and KU would probably kick-start Indiana recruiting again.

Unlikely yes, but not crazy or illogical.

 

[BlueMAB]

No one's going to give ND that deal anymore - - it's one of the primary reasons why the BE got into its predicament in the first place. Only the boys in Providence were stupid enough to do this.

I don't understand why people think the Big East would have been stable if they didn't allow ND to join for olympic sports.

What you guys honestly believe; is that BCU, V. Tech, Miami, sPitt, and Quse never leave the conference if Notre Dame wasn't a partial member? What could possibly make you think that?

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't believe for a minute that the ACC would consider ND unless it was for all sports. No one's going to give ND that deal anymore - - it's one of the primary reasons why the BE got into its predicament in the first place. Only the boys in Providence were stupid enough to do this.

It had 0.00% effect on the predicament the Big East is in today.

 

[gioff23]

It had 0.00% effect on the predicament the Big East is in today.

While I agree too much blame gets laid at ND's feet, I do believe the non-FB schools could always point to ND and those "other" programs and say, what are you talking about, we are a good football conference. In other words, ND was cover for the BB schools to thwart the FB schools from upsetting the status quo.

 

[toppencil]

It had 0.00% effect on the predicament the Big East is in today.

Agree, however, ND could help by scheduling more games with Big East teams.