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North Carolina Academics Report Out

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defaultroute said:
We have three separate threads all talking about the same thing. :) just saying..
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Good point, but you have to admit, this is the biggest story going in college athletics in a while. This and conference realignment are it.
 
walker11 said:
Good to see that even with the rampant cheating, the advisors are staying on top of the APR implications. And what is this about checks? Does AB relate to excessive absences?

gSjU1JB.png
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'Check' sounds like being checked off the list for being eligible (ie being declared eligible), in this context. That said, given the magnitude of this dumpster fire, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually money.
 
intlzncster said:
'Check' sounds like being checked off the list for being eligible (ie being declared eligible), in this context. That said, given the magnitude of this dumpster fire, I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually money.
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I initially thought thought this as well. But on a rereading, the first email says, "but since money is the main motivator."
 
If you visit any of the UNC boards you'll feel like you're taking crazy pills. Denial is running rampant. Anyone who tries to say even something as innocent as "oh man, this isn't good" is labeled a troll and shouted down.
 
UCONN-NYC said:
This is front page on CNN right now. Its a huge deal. My prediction is there will be zero sanctions to the athletic department.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/us/unc-report-academic-fraud/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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UNC is sacrificing its athletic department. They're trying their best to put separation between that department and the entire university. Remember this investigator was a university hire. He is not totally independent. So the university is cutting bait with the athletic department hoping this will be enough to satisfy most who want blood. It remains to be seen whether the NCAA or Congress will look into this in more detail.
 
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Sorry this is going to be very soap-boxy, but I think true and therefore needs to be pointed out as at least part of this discussion.

This is a pretty big deal and I'm a little struck by folks engaging in schadenfreude about UNC getting suspended, losing postseason achievements etc... The violations at UNC harmed people and were fraud. I know it is more the media and public role to be outraged about this, but celebrating it or scoring it as some sort of win because UConn was unjustly penalized reflects badly on UConn. I know this is not the place for holier than thou 'what about the kids that were harmed' grandstanding, but there seems to be nothing but propping UConn up because our APR stuff looks tame in comparison (that reaction is 100% justified in my view), taking pleasure in UNC losing postseason accomplishments (really who cares, its petty and immaterial) and hoping for a recruiting advantage (over the top self interest IMO).

How would we want the UConn president or Warde Manual to react to this? What do you think Kevin Ollie thinks about it, I'm sure he is sincerely bummed that the system was abused and failed lots of people? Take note that UNC failed because all that those involved cared about was UNC athletic success - so celebrating these findings as a victory for UConn is falling prey to similar selfish concerns (albeit very different since there is a huge difference between that and deliberately manipulating the system and enabling kids to go to college without getting educated).

There should be legitimate shock and concern for the athletes who were affected. If not we are implicitly acknowledging that college athletics is mostly a scam and this is par for the course.

Most importantly then, the damage incidents like this do to the overall integrity of colleges and athletic programs is very real.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Sorry this is going to be very soap-boxy, but I think true and therefore
Most importantly then, the damage incidents like this do to the overall integrity of colleges and athletic programs is very real.[/QUOTE


I can't speak for others. When the APR ruling came out I felt it was a scam because universities were self reporting and there was no outside review process to determine any validity whether athletes were receiving an adequate education. Most of us are isolating our comments because we knew that there was a double injustice for UConn over the APR issue. And very few voices defended the instituion during its crisis. Just because we're pointing out one facet of this problem doesn't mean we're insensitive to other aspects regarding this problem.
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walker11 said:
I thought it likely meant a stipend but the whole string confused me. I just like that they are fully aware of how the APR will be affected.
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Yeah stipend for what though? Maybe I'm missing something, but the only thing it could be a stipend for is what, room and board? And they're going to condition receiving that money for a kid's lunch on a grade in a class? Something doesn't smell right there.
 
Dogdeacon said:
There should be legitimate shock and concern for the athletes who were affected. If not we are implicitly acknowledging that college athletics is mostly a scam and this is par for the course.
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I really don't care about the athletes who were affected. If they decided to waste their scholarship by taking BS "classes" that require literally zero work, that's on them. I'm of the opinion that athletes should receive some sort of monetary payment. But when you enroll in a college it becomes your responsibility to decide the academic path you want to take.

The university should be ashamed, and the athletics program should be punished since it's obvious this entire situation was set up to keep athletes eligible. At the very least they need to receive the same postseason ban that we did for playing by the rules and failing athletes when they didn't uphold the "student" portion of student-athlete.
 
tzznandrew said:
Take away their titles in 1993, 2005, 2009. We have two more titles than them! WOOOO! And with those vacated, they lose 8 Final Fours...down to 10!

(Obviously won't actually happen...)
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Well it should, atleast during the years the APR was in effect. Otherwise it's all bullsh1t.

As bad as the UNC scandal is, and it is very, very bad, the fact that NCAA, but for whistle blowers preventing the scandal from disappering, would have given them a pass, is far worse.
 
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Dogdeacon said:
Sorry this is going to be very soap-boxy, but I think true and therefore needs to be pointed out as at least part of this discussion.

This is a pretty big deal and I'm a little struck by folks engaging in schadenfreude about UNC getting suspended, losing postseason achievements etc... The violations at UNC harmed people and were fraud. I know it is more the media and public role to be outraged about this, but celebrating it or scoring it as some sort of win because UConn was unjustly penalized reflects badly on UConn. I know this is not the place for holier than thou 'what about the kids that were harmed' grandstanding, but there seems to be nothing but propping UConn up because our APR stuff looks tame in comparison (that reaction is 100% justified in my view), taking pleasure in UNC losing postseason accomplishments (really who cares, its petty and immaterial) and hoping for a recruiting advantage (over the top self interest IMO).

How would we want the UConn president or Warde Manual to react to this? What do you think Kevin Ollie thinks about it, I'm sure he is sincerely bummed that the system was abused and failed lots of people? Take note that UNC failed because all that those involved cared about was UNC athletic success - so celebrating these findings as a victory for UConn is falling prey to similar selfish concerns (albeit very different since there is a huge difference between that and deliberately manipulating the system and enabling kids to go to college without getting educated).

There should be legitimate shock and concern for the athletes who were affected. If not we are implicitly acknowledging that college athletics is mostly a scam and this is par for the course.

Most importantly then, the damage incidents like this do to the overall integrity of colleges and athletic programs is very real.
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I am not taking joy out of seeing UNC fall like this.
I am however shocked to see the lengths some of these blue bloods go to stay competitive.
When you read a stat liek this, it makes you wonder how not a single coach on the basketball team had any clue:

Pat Forde of Yahoo Sports reported on the big news, noting that 10 players from UNC basketball's 2005 national title-winning squad were African-American studies majors.
 
Dogdeacon said:
Sorry this is going to be very soap-boxy, but I think true and therefore needs to be pointed out as at least part of this discussion.

This is a pretty big deal and I'm a little struck by folks engaging in schadenfreude about UNC getting suspended, losing postseason achievements etc... The violations at UNC harmed people and were fraud. I know it is more the media and public role to be outraged about this, but celebrating it or scoring it as some sort of win because UConn was unjustly penalized reflects badly on UConn. I know this is not the place for holier than thou 'what about the kids that were harmed' grandstanding, but there seems to be nothing but propping UConn up because our APR stuff looks tame in comparison (that reaction is 100% justified in my view), taking pleasure in UNC losing postseason accomplishments (really who cares, its petty and immaterial) and hoping for a recruiting advantage (over the top self interest IMO).

How would we want the UConn president or Warde Manual to react to this? What do you think Kevin Ollie thinks about it, I'm sure he is sincerely bummed that the system was abused and failed lots of people? Take note that UNC failed because all that those involved cared about was UNC athletic success - so celebrating these findings as a victory for UConn is falling prey to similar selfish concerns (albeit very different since there is a huge difference between that and deliberately manipulating the system and enabling kids to go to college without getting educated).

There should be legitimate shock and concern for the athletes who were affected. If not we are implicitly acknowledging that college athletics is mostly a scam and this is par for the course.

Most importantly then, the damage incidents like this do to the overall integrity of colleges and athletic programs is very real.
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People are responding to the hypocrisy in the system more than anything. I do care about vacating wins because the University was competing with an illegal advantage.

I'm jaded enough about college athletics to not be shocked at all. This sorry of thing goes on at more institutions than we'd like to believe. The only real surprise is how incompetent INC was in trying to pull this off.
 
Herman is the chief compliance officer. If UNC doesn't get a huge punishment I will be shocked, and I never thought it would come this far.

Have to give thanks for the UK fans on the national board for pulling all this up.

ec
 
Dogdeacon said:
Sorry this is going to be very soap-boxy, but I think true and therefore needs to be pointed out as at least part of this discussion.

This is a pretty big deal and I'm a little struck by folks engaging in schadenfreude about UNC getting suspended, losing postseason achievements etc... The violations at UNC harmed people and were fraud. I know it is more the media and public role to be outraged about this, but celebrating it or scoring it as some sort of win because UConn was unjustly penalized reflects badly on UConn. I know this is not the place for holier than thou 'what about the kids that were harmed' grandstanding, but there seems to be nothing but propping UConn up because our APR stuff looks tame in comparison (that reaction is 100% justified in my view), taking pleasure in UNC losing postseason accomplishments (really who cares, its petty and immaterial) and hoping for a recruiting advantage (over the top self interest IMO).

How would we want the UConn president or Warde Manual to react to this? What do you think Kevin Ollie thinks about it, I'm sure he is sincerely bummed that the system was abused and failed lots of people? Take note that UNC failed because all that those involved cared about was UNC athletic success - so celebrating these findings as a victory for UConn is falling prey to similar selfish concerns (albeit very different since there is a huge difference between that and deliberately manipulating the system and enabling kids to go to college without getting educated).

There should be legitimate shock and concern for the athletes who were affected. If not we are implicitly acknowledging that college athletics is mostly a scam and this is par for the course.

Most importantly then, the damage incidents like this do to the overall integrity of colleges and athletic programs is very real.
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Honestly I'm mainly loving this downfall because of the rich rich irony, considering the whole CAROLINA WAY thing.
 
Amazing how hard it is to find anywhere on ESPN.com. No mention of it on the front page and apparently isn't even enough for the main headline on the NCAAF or NCAAB pages. Just a small link on each page. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.
 
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MadisonSquare Gordon said:
Amazing how hard it is to find anywhere on ESPN.com. No mention of it on the front page and apparently isn't even enough for the main headline on the NCAAF or NCAAB pages. Just a small link on each page. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.
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Agreed. The story didn't even make the first 20 minutes of Sports Center last night.
 
If a death penalty was ever deserved, this is it. This is an NCAA issue, unlike the Penn State criminal issue. I can't imagine a multi-year death penalty being avoided, if they don't drop the hammer on THIS then what will they drop it on?
 
Lefty2one said:
If a death penalty was ever deserved, this is it. This is an NCAA issue, unlike the Penn State criminal issue. I can't imagine a multi-year death penalty being avoided, if they don't drop the hammer on THIS then what will they drop it on?
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Might be deserved but will never happen. The p5 will break away immediately if there was any thought of death penalty.
 
uchusky32 said:
Might be deserved but will never happen. The p5 will break away immediately if there was any thought of death penalty.
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I'm not so sure that they'll rally behind UNC.
 
Lefty2one said:
If a death penalty was ever deserved, this is it. This is an NCAA issue, unlike the Penn State criminal issue. I can't imagine a multi-year death penalty being avoided, if they don't drop the hammer on THIS then what will they drop it on?
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If they don't drop the hammer, then they lose whatever legitimacy they have left. Oh wait, never mind, there's none left.
 
amory said:
I really don't care about the athletes who were affected. If they decided to waste their scholarship by taking BS "classes" that require literally zero work, that's on them. I'm of the opinion that athletes should receive some sort of monetary payment. But when you enroll in a college it becomes your responsibility to decide the academic path you want to take.

The university should be ashamed, and the athletics program should be punished since it's obvious this entire situation was set up to keep athletes eligible. At the very least they need to receive the same postseason ban that we did for playing by the rules and failing athletes when they didn't uphold the "student" portion of student-athlete.
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Well at least you are honest that you don't care about the people. I think you kind of blame them though by saying the athletes decided to waste their scholarships and chose zero work.
A - Its human nature to choose the easiest path, some did some didn't but everyone finds a few 'gut' course in college and
B-college athletes especially football players have a lot on their plate especially if they are academically behind, so in a lot of cases the UNC athletes choose between losing both their sport and scholarship versus continuing with sports and a compromised education that is at least better than none.
So I do sympathize with the people affected (notice you just called them athletes), though I stop well short of a "woe is them stance." I'd say it is now up to them to DEMAND retribution in the form of a new/real college education on UNC's dime. Easily settled in theory.

So then going back to the reaction here, reveling in UNC's downfall is actually a step beyond admitting you don't care. It is essentially ignoring and totally dismissing the fact that people get used for the sake of big-time athletics. Not a giant step because again this is the very hypocrisy that storms like this expose and that might ultimately bring down the entire American college 'student athlete' sham.
 
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CL82 said:
I'm not so sure that they'll rally behind UNC.
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Not rally behind NC. But NC is a live image for the others to look at and maybe come to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to split before it's them.
 
death penalty or not. How long would you guess until there is a decision? is there possibility of poached recruits?
 
You have rules and people/programs face consequences when they break them. If not it is a sham. I'm sure I would feel for any young person who got caught up in this mess. I actually feel for Dean Smith too because he did a lot of good things.

But compassion and consequences are not opposing options.

Ultimately, they deserve both. But the irony/hypocrisy here is friggin delicious so let me have a victory lap before I return to my better angels.
 
cohenzone said:
I have a cousin who is a UNC grad, lives in NC. I've semi-ragged on him over this, but that story, if true, isn't just bad for athletics. The report suggests that the fraud extended to a fairly large number of non-athletes, too. Since it's unlikely that every last student involved will have a name revealed, a lot of grads will be painted with a brush of suspicion they don't deserve, not to mention the taint on the degree, involved or not. Big time sports - make that big time money in sports - is bad news. Winston at FSU has more protection than ebola nurses, SU has protected a few bad guys, and it's all about money. Maybe it's time to see it for what it is, let schools sponsor teams, let the players be paid, and if they so desire and can get into the school like everyone else, good for them.
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There is also a lot of collateral damage. The students that got degrees after taking these "classes" and then beat some out for a job even though they had a fake degree.
 
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