OT: NFT Art & NBA Top Shot

[GemParty]

What are your thoughts? Digital, crypto, blockchain, art. Is this a fad or here to stay?

Are you a fan? It’s becoming pretty popular and very expensive.

 

[HuskyFich]

Oh it's definitely here to stay...just might not be widely adopted and relevant for another decade. Get into the game planning on winning in 2030

 

[Lefty2one]

I'm fully "old man yells at cloud" with this stuff but clearly I don't fully understand it. You don't actually own the copyrights to the "moment" or whatever, correct? If I spend $1m and "buy" MJ's iconic Game 6 shot in '98, it's not like I obtain exclusive rights to that moment, right? The NBA can still use it as they see fit. I don't understand what you're actually getting and what's different from just going on YouTube to watch a clip.

 

[HuskyFich]

I'm fully "old man yells at cloud" with this stuff but clearly I don't fully understand it. You don't actually own the copyrights to the "moment" or whatever, correct? If I spend $1m and "buy" MJ's iconic Game 6 shot in '98, it's not like I obtain exclusive rights to that moment, right? The NBA can still use it as they see fit. I don't understand what you're actually getting and what's different from just going on YouTube to watch a clip.

You do obtain exclusive rights to that moment on that platform. You own it. Its just like having something authenticated...yes the knock offs are easily available and visible for everyone, but what are they worth?

We're moving toward a digital society where owning art, video game gear or collectibles, or sports moments in virtual world will hold just as much value as tangible collectibles. What hasn't happened yet is the adoption of the virtual world to enjoy the NFTs in, which will come over time.

But when we are able to authenticate and create scarcity in a digital world, the market will be MASSIVELY disrupted.

 

[auror]

You do obtain exclusive rights to that moment on that platform. You own it. Its just like having something authenticated...yes the knock offs are easily available and visible for everyone, but what are they worth?

We're moving toward a digital society where owning art, video game gear or collectibles, or sports moments in virtual world will hold just as much value as tangible collectibles. What hasn't happened yet is the adoption of the virtual world to enjoy the NFTs in, which will come over time.

But when we are able to authenticate and create scarcity in a digital world, the market will be MASSIVELY disrupted.

Yeah it's more like owning a signature than a foul ball. Dude can sign more of anything. They can just sell another, distinct but identical NFT of whatever you bought. Until as you say they remove the ability to create more of the item (which is incredibly easy with digital goods), there will never be scarcity or restrictive use.

 

[CCSUblue]

Christie's sold an NFT for $69 million. If a historic auction house like them is getting in on it, I feel like it's going to be here to stay.

I listened to the Topps podcast recently and was thinking that a lot of the artwork Topps is involved with recently would make great NTFs.

 

[BGesus4]

The smart contracts piece of it is huge and will transform the way the money flows in a lot of business areas over the next 10 to 20 years

 

[McLovin]

@HuskyFich addressed it above - an NFT is like having something authenticated.

You can buy a replica of a Picasso and hang it in your house. It may look legit, but it's not the real thing. NFTs do that with digital assets.

I get the concept of NFTs and find them intriguing. We are moving to a digital world, but the real question is do people want to collect things digitally? I think yes.

I would totally pay way too much to buy a NFT of a "1 of 250" Kemba Walker step-back over Pitt in the BET. To be one of 250 fans to exclusively "own" that moment would be awesome. Sure anyone can go watch it on YouTube. But anyone can print out a Lebron rookie card too and stick that in a display case. It just isn't the same thing.

The other thing I'd want to know is how the market is regulated from a reproduction standpoint. What is stopping the creator of an NFT (NBA top shot, digital art, etc.) from just creating more copies? Maybe a "second edition" of something popular would only increase the demand for the first edition of the NFT? IDK how that one will work...

As for the Kemba highlight, I'd just need to find a way to display it in my house (maybe a digital picture frame that has it on loop).

 

[WhereistheDove?]

@HuskyFich addressed it above - an NFT is like having something authenticated.

You can buy a replica of a Picasso and hang it in your house. It may look legit, but it's not the real thing. NFTs do that with digital assets.

I get the concept of NFTs and find them intriguing. We are moving to a digital world, but the real question is do people want to collect things digitally? I think yes.

I would totally pay way too much to buy a NFT of a "1 of 250" Kemba Walker step-back over Pitt in the BET. To be one of 250 fans to exclusively "own" that moment would be awesome. Sure anyone can go watch it on YouTube. But anyone can print out a Lebron rookie card too and stick that in a display case. It just isn't the same thing.

The other thing I'd want to know is how the market is regulated from a reproduction standpoint. What is stopping the creator of an NFT (NBA top shot, digital art, etc.) from just creating more copies? Maybe a "second edition" of something popular would only increase the demand for the first edition of the NFT? IDK how that one will work...

As for the Kemba highlight, I'd just need to find a way to display it in my house (maybe a digital picture frame that has it on loop).

Using your example, there’s a huge quality difference between an actual card and something you print out. If you’re displaying the moment on a digital picture frame, how much of a quality difference is there between the purchased one and one you can make yourself?

 

[Lefty2one]

Using your example, there’s a huge quality difference between an actual card and something you print out. If you’re displaying the moment on a digital picture frame, how much of a quality difference is there between the purchased one and one you can make yourself?

Right, that's what I don't get. A real Picasso or an autographed football is different. What do I get for my say $1,000 of Kemba's stepback that I don't get from playing it on a loop via YouTube on my Google Nest? The quality is more dependent on the device/source than anything else.

NFTs are obviously going to be huge, hell they already are, but there's a disconnect in my tiny old brain.

 

[McLovin]

Using your example, there’s a huge quality difference between an actual card and something you print out. If you’re displaying the moment on a digital picture frame, how much of a quality difference is there between the purchased one and one you can make yourself?

Great point. Maybe a better example would be a real, but reproduction of a historic card. Last year I pulled a Jeter rookie reproduction from a Topps pack. The card looks identical to the PSA 9 (S) graded Jeter Topps Gold Rookie I have sitting on my bar. The reproduction actually looks better since it's brand new and my PSA 9 (S) has a slight blemish on the back. But the reproduction when right in the trash, because it was a worthless piece of cardboard. A fake of the real thing. Could have maybe sold it on eBay for $0.15 compared to $150+ for my PSA 9.

I think it just comes down to the "authentication" and "exclusivity" of it being legitimized. Human beings love authentic and exclusive. That's why people buy a Lexus sedan for $35,000 when a Toyota sedan for $20,000 is basically the same thing.

Since most of the internet isn't "legitimized" or "exclusive" right now, NFTs are still pretty fringe. But the NBA top shot project has shown a massive demand for them and it can be profitable for the leagues and players. As all major sports leagues start to jump on the NFT trend and sell the exclusive "original" production of video highlights, the demand for exclusivity will start to explode. At least, that's the theory.

It's really intriguing. Since I don't have much interest in the NBA, I'm just sitting back and watching what's going on with the market. Is it a fad? Quite possibly. Is the beginning of a new age of "collectables"? Also quite possible. Is it a legitimate way to invest and make money? That's where I'm skeptical.

Sports cards are booming right now and people are "investing" in them. The old rare authenticated ones are great and will probably hold value due to their scarcity. But the newer ones need to be something super exclusive (1 of 1 rookies, for example) from the day they are produced to be worth anything years from now because everyone is putting every card from a pack into a case and sending them into PSA for grading. The market is flooded with highly rated authenticated cards from recent production runs. Since the leagues can produce as many NFTs as they want to meet the demand, we will have to wait and see what the long term pricing is for these. Because of this, I'm not sold that they are investable yet.

If they start making some cool exclusive NFTs for UConn or the Yankees, I'll probably buy some (as a collectable, not as an investment).

 

[McLovin]

Right, that's what I don't get. A real Picasso or an autographed football is different. What do I get for my say $1,000 of Kemba's stepback that I don't get from playing it on a loop via YouTube on my Google Nest? The quality is more dependent on the device/source than anything else.

NFTs are obviously going to be huge, hell they already are, but there's a disconnect in my tiny old brain.

Market is so hot right now for NFTs, as an investment you'd probably lose money on most you'd buy. There is no financial justification for a $500 highlight of Rudy Gobert dunking on the Nuggets in a meaningless February game, other than some really wanted to own that moment for whatever reason. I'm not sure they are investable at the moment. Collectable for sure. Not investable.

 

[HuskyFich]

Right, that's what I don't get. A real Picasso or an autographed football is different. What do I get for my say $1,000 of Kemba's stepback that I don't get from playing it on a loop via YouTube on my Google Nest? The quality is more dependent on the device/source than anything else.

NFTs are obviously going to be huge, hell they already are, but there's a disconnect in my tiny old brain.

What do you get from the Picasso sitting on your wall? Nothing more than the enjoyment of owning a rare piece of art and the appreciation of value due to its demand AND SCARCITY.

A central point thats being made by y'all is absolutely correct, artists can just create and duplicate so many copies of something it will destroy its value..

Soooo, make sure you take plenty of time (maybe years) to research artists, creators and trends that follow the proper scarcity mold. Why invest in something from a person you don't know or trust? (If only more people made the rest of their investment decisions this way.....)

The creator Beeple just sold a NFT painting for $69MM on Christy's. His NFT was a collage of 5000 1/1 NFTs he has created and shared on Social Media over a 5+ year period. But he didn't sell the ownership of any of them until last week.

 

[GemParty]

NBA Top Shot has been wildly popular. Anybody buy one? UConn guys?

 

[ElGuapo]

This was on PBS News Hour last Friday and helped explain this all to me.

Record-breaking sale of digital creation makes history in art and cryptocurrency markets

Christie’s, the auction house, sold a work of art Thursday for a record-breaking $69.3 million for a piece that exists only digitally. The sale, reportedly made to an investor known by a pseudonym, is seen by many as history-making development in both digital art and cryptocurrency markets...

www.pbs.org

I'm an old school, paper and hard goods, collector of things so I get it, just not sure if I will ever want to jump into it.
At the very least I could burn my rare Phish posters and Jordan rookie cards to stay warm if the lights are shut off.
1's and 0's with no access to them don't do much to help me in that situation.

 

[Lefty2one]

What do you get from the Picasso sitting on your wall? Nothing more than the enjoyment of owning a rare piece of art and the appreciation of value due to its demand AND SCARCITY.

The creator Beeple just sold a NFT painting for $69MM on Christy's. His NFT was a collage of 5000 1/1 NFTs he has created and shared on Social Media over a 5+ year period. But he didn't sell the ownership of any of them until last week.

Right, but the Piccasso is a tangible thing sitting on your wall. What's the new owner of the Beeple painting doing with it? Displaying it on a digital picture frame?

I've never been a collector but it always seemed that displaying collections was a big part of the appeal. Decorate your home, your office, your garage (with a fleet of expensive cars) with whatever you collect. With NFTs, do you just store them digitally like anything else and pull it up on your phone when you want to show it off? Again, not sassing here. Trying to learn more about it.

 

[UChusky916]

Any guesses on which cryptos might take off with the NFT trend?

Considering Decentralized MANA and filecoin.

 

[McLovin]

I think most of the early NFTs are using ethereum

 

[ZenConn]

I'll have to check it out. This will essentially get rid of the business grading the cards (PSA). Also you don't have to worry about a decrease in value because of things outside of your control like off center cuts, gum stains, etc. And also prevents kids from using these as bike spokes ?

 

[ZackB05]

The problem with using crypto to buy NFTs is then you owe capital gains tax on your appreciation in the crypto.

I've been really unlucky with NBATopShot pack drops. I joined early February and I think Im 0-10 outside of the one pack release they did which everyone was guaranteed one. I have purchased around 15 moments on the marketplace. My first was of course a UConn player (Drummond). Since then I have been basing my purchases on younger star players with 15k or less in the series. I also bought a moment for each 1st round draft pick since 2010. Think the only one im missing is Kyrie (waiting on the price to drop). I created a showcase, check it out....

NBA Top Shot | Number 1 Picks - by ZackB05

 

[HuskyFich]

Right, but the Piccasso is a tangible thing sitting on your wall. What's the new owner of the Beeple painting doing with it? Displaying it on a digital picture frame?

I've never been a collector but it always seemed that displaying collections was a big part of the appeal. Decorate your home, your office, your garage (with a fleet of expensive cars) with whatever you collect. With NFTs, do you just store them digitally like anything else and pull it up on your phone when you want to show it off? Again, not sassing here. Trying to learn more about it.

This is the major problem in the space, you have it exactly right.

Once the space to share, display, and easily access your assets is more mainstream, that's when things should really take off.

Just an aside: Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other alt coins are still not widely adopted or mainstream yet, they're barely scratching the surface. Most people have no idea how to use the systems and and exchanges to purchase crypto, and definitely takes some effort to learn. Ease of use is definitely a problem. So, people who are jumping in and expecting NFTs to explode should probably consider how long it will take for crypto and blockchain to stabilize first; before jumping in with two feet and betting on NFTs that operate on the blockchain. Yes, now is when the millionaires are made because they are in so early. But I fully expect a decade plus of hype as well as disappointment before we see real long term adoption.

 

[MexicoHusky]

What are your thoughts? Digital, crypto, blockchain, art. Is this a fad or here to stay?

Are you a fan? It’s becoming pretty popular and very expensive.

I'm not sure I get it. So I have a digital piece of art. And I can trace it's chain of custody back to the artist..... but it still looks identical to a normal digital copy. I may not understand the tech either.

 

[J187Money]

7 Deadly Sins - Greed - Artwork by mq | OpenSea

Part of a series - mq's visual interpretation of the 7 deadly sins

opensea.io

Just to mess around with this (related to a side hustle) - I put a piece of my son's art up on Opensea just to understand how it works. It is aptly titled "Greed" - one of the 7 deadly sins. If someone buys it - I will send them the original piece of art - if they so choose.

 

[Lefty2one]

Cover story on SI.com...

What's All the Fuss About Virtual NBA Trading Cards?

Welcome to Top Shot, where millions of dollars change hands—where money is hard to withdraw and a potential for evil-doing complicates it all.

www.si.com

 

[Poe]

NBA Top Shot has been wildly popular. Anybody buy one? UConn guys?

I have bought 2 packs, each pack contained 3 moments. The first pack I bought for $14, and it had Goran Dragic, P.J. Tucker and James Harden. I sold the Dragic moment for $14. The Harden moment is selling for around $250-300 for serial numbers over 1000 (haven’t listed mine yet).
The second pack I bought for $9 dollars had Chris Paul, Tacko Fall and Lamarcus Alridge.
I think low numbered, rarer moments out of /25, /50, /250 will have some value in the future. But I can’t see a Goran Dragic moment, serial #18185 increasing in value. Also, unopened early release packs will probably be pretty valuable, since as of today there is no way to sell them.