New Mexico State & Liberty Model - what can we learn? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

New Mexico State & Liberty Model - what can we learn?

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How Sway?! said:
Pretty sure we outspend New Mexico State by a significant amount. It's all relative to your competition. If we played a C-USA schedule we would be closer to their results but considering we are trying to compete against P4 schools and scheduling like it, the results are what they are.
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Liberty outspends UConn. Yes, NM St. spends less, but they brought in a known good coach who has well known health issues and, sure enough, he is retiring. I still come back to pick the results you want and hire and spend accordingly.
 
How Sway?! said:
No one is arguing that they are not on the rise, that's a fact. It's the assumption that they are P4 bound that is getting push back
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I guess it depends on how many programs are included in the P4 and where the other Virginia and North Carolina programs end up. Who knows, the ACC carcass would be an ideal candidate to make another bad decision.
 
NMSU has made two bowl games the last two years because they had a good coach. They were only independent for about 7 years. They were in a conference for decades and sucked. They made one bowl game in about 60 years.

Liberty has one of the few football budgets in the G5 that is bigger than ours. Liberty was good two years ago as independent as well.

Point being that being in a conference has had zero effect on the success (or in NMSU's case- usually failure) of these programs.
 
shizzle787 said:
NMSU has made two bowl games the last two years because they had a good coach. They were only independent for about 7 years. They were in a conference for decades and sucked. They made one bowl game in about 60 years.

Liberty has one of the few football budgets in the G5 that is bigger than ours. Liberty was good two years ago as independent as well.

Point being that being in a conference has had zero effect on the success (or in NMSU's case- usually failure) of these programs.
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How can you say zero effect? First, 6 years is too small a sample size to measure any correlation. That said, Liberty just went 13-0 in its first year in a conference. Number of wins in those 6 years: 6, 8, 10, 8, 8, 13
 
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Kolumbo said:
How can you say zero effect? First, 6 years is too small a sample size to measure any correlation. That said, Liberty just went 13-0 in its first year in a conference. Number of wins in those 6 years: 6, 8, 10, 8, 8, 13
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They also played the worst SOS in possibly a decade. The played almost all of the bottom 10 teams in the country. That doesn't say much.
 
Kolumbo said:
But it did have a direct effect on their success this year. It got them ranked and playing in the Fiesta Bowl. Sometimes it IS the Destination.
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The only reason they got in the Fiesta Bowl was because every other G5 champ had at least TWO losses. That in itself was a miracle.
 
DMTCYNAW said:
ok, so what's the formula?

it sounds like nothing Liberty is doing, is putting them in a position to make the jump to the big table, according to your responses

  • multiple P5 wins vs. ACC/SEC opponents
  • massive stadium expansion & renovation, rivaling P5 southern schools, which are the CFB "gameday atmosphere" benchmark. See Kolumbo's picture above.
  • massive facilities/amenities upgrade (and i mean MASSIVE, SEC/NFL level)
  • the RIGHT coaching hires for the transition from FCS to FBS (freeze + chadwell - home run BOTH times)
  • 13-0 season 2023 (SOS aside, this is still hard to do and deserves some respect)
  • $$$$$
  • Idk their NIL collective situation, but i'm almost positive they're already ahead of most G5's on this, given their other investments. There's clearly an open checkbook somewhere.

not judging, just asking - are you simply not a Liberty fan? because if you take the "liberty" brand off and put "Tulane/ECU/Memphis" on these accomplishments, wondering if that would make a difference.

If none of the bullets above are good enough, then what the heck is even the point of trying/yearning for p5 invite, if you're UConn? I mean come on. this is why i'm trying to determine if you just hate liberty, or objectively there's another standard i'm not seeing.
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"massive stadium expansion"? It seats (after expansion) 25,000.
 
Viet Vet said:
"massive stadium expansion"? It seats (after expansion) 25,000.
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yes. note i said expansion + renovation (or upgrade)

massive stadium expansion is a multi-faceted term and applies here, given where Liberty was until very recently. (FCS - big south conf)
Their stadium grandstand 12 years ago was barely bigger than memorial stadium. From that, to williams stadium's current layout today, is friggin massive and is indicative of how serious they are about making it to the top echelon of CFB.

Liberty is just starting out, and the sky's the limit for them at this rate. For a just-starting-out program, that stadium is LEGIT.

Massive Upgrade (expansion + renovation) in the 21st century is not just sheer seat numbers, but quality of atmosphere, technology, modernity, sightlines etc. if Williams was 70,000 wooden bleachers from 1955, Liberty haters would cry cuz it's not nice enough. Go check out Rice Stadium in Houston to see how worthwhile a big stadium is in 2023 when it has nothing else to offer but... seats.

pro teams are REDUCING capacity to provide a modern gameday experience. So numbers isn't all it's charged up to be. not anymore.
 
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How Sway?! said:
I think history has shown that beating P4 schools had little bearing in getting invited to a P4 conference.
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I think it helped UCF, Houston, BYU, Cinci that they were very competitive against their P5 schedules over the years.
 
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DMTCYNAW said:
yes. note i said expansion + renovation (or upgrade)

massive stadium expansion is a multi-faceted term and applies here, given where Liberty was until very recently. (FCS - big south conf)
Their stadium grandstand 12 years ago was barely bigger than memorial stadium. From that, to williams stadium's current layout today, is friggin massive and is indicative of how serious they are about making it to the top echelon of CFB.

Liberty is just starting out, and the sky's the limit for them at this rate. For a just-starting-out program, that stadium is LEGIT.

Massive Upgrade (expansion + renovation) in the 21st century is not just sheer seat numbers, but quality of atmosphere, technology, modernity, sightlines etc. if Williams was 70,000 wooden bleachers from 1955, Liberty haters would cry cuz it's not nice enough. Go check out Rice Stadium in Houston to see how worthwhile a big stadium is in 2023 when it has nothing else to offer but... seats.

pro teams are REDUCING capacity to provide a modern gameday experience. So numbers isn't all it's charged up to be. not anymore.
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The stadium has cabanas! That beats indoor luxury suites.

"At the South end zone, 23 cabanas will be added above a newly graded berm with additional space for students and overflow seating. Complete with seating for eight and a roof to keep the sun and weather out, each cabana will be furnished with a TV, fan, heater, and waiter service."

www.liberty.edu

Liberty Athletics announces Williams Stadium expansion plans | Liberty News

In anticipation of the best home football schedule in program history, Liberty University Athletics will be making several renovations to Williams Stadium prior to the 2022 season. The renovation plans include new seating options, including a seating upgrade for nearly...
www.liberty.edu www.liberty.edu

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Neither of those schools will get a P4 invite. P4 schools will wave the “no football tradition” flag as a way to keep any deserving program out. Even us if we ever got our FB together.

Will there be a league of the top 50 programs and then another league between that one and FCS?
 
so i take it that there is nothing to learn lol - this post turned into a personal Liberty hate fest.
 
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Waquoit said:
No, I do not. It is not a real school, it’s a football team with a cult attached. No real university should have anything to do with them.
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My wife graduated from their with a real degree in science, but you stick to your hatred of the school
 
How Sway?! said:
It's not a really a political issue, it's a morality issue. They are also a fake school closer to university of Phoenix and Grand canyon University than UConn.
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That is an opinion not a fact. Do you say that for other religious universities? My guess, no.
 
DMTCYNAW said:
two programs i find supremely interesting - formerly on the edges of the FBS relevance world, formerly INDEPENDENT also, and now both making their strides (huge ones, at that) in the right direction for their programs.

Liberty in particular is worthy of a harvard business school case study (unreal amounts of money spent on football, but they also won games, which as we know $ doesn't automaticaly = wins, so clearly they're doing something ELSE right besides spending).

I suspect Liberty, regardless of their upcoming fiesta bowl outcome, will be in the P4/5 in the next 3-4 years. They're spending too much money and winning too many games (including against P4/5 teams) to be ignored. It's obvious, to me at least, that they're laser focused as an athletic dept/trustee board, to get an invite (Big 12, most likely IMO).

NMSU will probably remain G5 for the future, but probably the more comparable program to us, considering recent losing history. Jerry Kill is now gone, so we'll see how/if it sustains. But regardless, they're showing us that it is 100% possible to win in FBS as an "outsider" program that comes from where UConn is currently (indep/low talent).

What can we learn from these 2 programs?
I'm not asking for a UConn fiesta bowl, even though sheeeeeeeesh that would be heaven.

But it's not insane to ask for consistent 7-5 & 8-4 seasons, maybe even a 10-2 if we're lucky from time to time.
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I learned that if you follow the NMSU model that if the coach retires then the entire roster enters the portal.
 
gioff2323 said:
Who knew we’d get to a point where our model for success are 2 roadkill programs.

Want to be successful - put football first. In everything you do as a program.
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And Liberty, NMSU, BYU, Army, Navy and now UMass would rather be in conferences.

They must know something that we don’t.
 
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