New Jacobs APR Column - Different Tone This Time

[HuskyBballFan]

http://www.courant.com/sports/colle...rnament-column-0217-20120217,0,2564692.column

Essentially saying that the crux of the issue is that there is no reason why the NCAA can't use 2011-2012 data to determine 2013 eligibility.

Harrison has said that it may be a problem logistically, but I'm not buying it. Uconn knew last year's score by Labor Day - as soon as you can confirm who came back to school and who didn't, you can figure out the score immediately. I understand that some school are on trimesters, quarters, etc., but you mean to tell me it takes 8 additional months to compile and report the scores? I'll volunteer to do it for everybody if they just send the scores to me - I'll have it done by Midnight Madness and everyone will know where they stand.

 

[upstater]

http://www.courant.com/sports/colle...rnament-column-0217-20120217,0,2564692.column

Essentially saying that the crux of the issue is that there is no reason why the NCAA can't use 2011-2012 data to determine 2013 eligibility.

Harrison has said that it may be a problem logistically, but I'm not buying it. Uconn knew last year's score by Labor Day - as soon as you can confirm who came back to school and who didn't, you can figure out the score immediately. I understand that some school are on trimesters, quarters, etc., but you mean to tell me it takes 8 additional months to compile and report the scores? I'll volunteer to do it for everybody if they just send the scores to me - I'll have it done by Midnight Madness and everyone will know where they stand.

Why can't it be done in May after grades are in?

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Why can't it be done in May after grades are in?

Because you don't yet know who is transferring, who's coming back, etc. But once the kids are back on campus and enrolled in classes (i.e. late August/early September) you can calculate the score.

 

[caw]

http://www.courant.com/sports/colle...rnament-column-0217-20120217,0,2564692.column

Essentially saying that the crux of the issue is that there is no reason why the NCAA can't use 2011-2012 data to determine 2013 eligibility.

Harrison has said that it may be a problem logistically, but I'm not buying it. Uconn knew last year's score by Labor Day - as soon as you can confirm who came back to school and who didn't, you can figure out the score immediately. I understand that some school are on trimesters, quarters, etc., but you mean to tell me it takes 8 additional months to compile and report the scores? I'll volunteer to do it for everybody if they just send the scores to me - I'll have it done by Midnight Madness and everyone will know where they stand.

Well, there are a few things which could slow it down logistically. There are what 350+ D1 basketball teams. The score is usually released officially around May 24th or so. School semesters usually go until around May 10-15th. That doesn't leave a lot of time to process scores.

Pushing back the release date could cause some issues as well:

• It gives the school less time to file waivers, for those transferring out to other D1 schools (for example - player X transfers to a D1 school but it wasn't confirmed until mid-summer where player X is going. Now the school has to file for a waiver for player X's lost point). This wouldn't be a problem with 1 or 2 schools but with thousands of scholar athletes on basketball scholarship between women's and men's basketball, it is a lot.
• It gives recruits less heads-up on the situation. I mean think of it this way: Recruit Y signs with say college B, college B had a 950 in 2010-2011, 875 in 2009-2010 and a 875 in 2008-2009 and a 1000 in 2007-2008. So college Y says that they will be good to go next year no problem. Recruit Y signs with them in the fall period. They have 2 players transfer out and a few others fail in 2011-2012 to get to a score of 860. Under the old system they would have been eligible with a score of 925 over 4 years. Under the new system they fail the 4 year test and the 2 year test. Of course they would have been ineligible the following year under the old system anyway but at least the recruit knows what the first year will be like under the old system.
• If the team is not eligible there has been talk that players would be released from scholarship or Letters of Intent. If you push back the date that gives those players less time to transfer/look for a new school.

I agree it is doable, but there are some legit concerns.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

Well, there are a few things which could slow it down logistically. There are what 350+ D1 basketball teams. The score is usually released officially around May 24th or so. School semesters usually go until around May 10-15th. That doesn't leave a lot of time to process scores.

The scores that will be released on May 24th are the scores obtained by last year's team, not this year's.

 

[upstater]

Because you don't yet know who is transferring, who's coming back, etc. But once the kids are back on campus and enrolled in classes (i.e. late August/early September) you can calculate the score.

You know if they have finished the semester in good standing.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

You know if they have finished the semester in good standing.

Right, but that's only one half of the score. Each player earns one point for being in good standing and one point for staying at the school. You can have an idea, but you can't confirm it until you know who's enrolled for the following year.

 

[freescooter]

jacobs is correct on this I htink. there are some logistical concerns as caw notes, but the real issue here is that this is a public relations matter for the NCAA, not a real concern with academics. There are ways to address the academic issues, but they won't really go after those. And the problem with this being a public relations matter for the NCAA is that they have to nail some big fish. Nobody is going care if the University of Northern South Dakota gets banned from the NCAA Tournament or is Eastern West Virginia can't go to the Weedeater Bowl. The other point, I think, is this was entirely avoidable at UCONN if someone had simply taken care of business. Whether that goes to Calhoun, the AD, or someone else, everyone on th eplanet knew UCONN was flirting with APR issues. And I'm sorry, but you need to treat APR in the same way an NFL GM treats the salary cap. It is part of the equation. might be a silly calculation, as upstate contends, but that doesn't relieve the staff from having to pay attention to it.

 

[RS9999X]

It would be impossible to use present year in March. This we all know

Using the prior year is tough unless they push the back the reporting dates to after Labor day. Mays too early to get an accurate read. First session Summer counts IIRC and there may be makeup work, etc. Then there are the pro hopefuls who may not have a contract in hand until Fall and transfer waivers (think Jamal Coombs-McDaniel). Moving the release to Thanksgiving would be about right but would likely meet some opposition from first year players who didn't know they weren't going to be eligible for post-season and were lied to or blind-sided.

 

[caw]

The scores that will be released on May 24th are the scores obtained by last year's team, not this year's.

Of course, but that is when the scores which will affect the following year are released, which is what I was commenting on (current timing).

 

[upstater]

jacobs is correct on this I htink. there are some logistical concerns as caw notes, but the real issue here is that this is a public relations matter for the NCAA, not a real concern with academics. There are ways to address the academic issues, but they won't really go after those. And the problem with this being a public relations matter for the NCAA is that they have to nail some big fish. Nobody is going care if the University of Northern South Dakota gets banned from the NCAA Tournament or is Eastern West Virginia can't go to the Weedeater Bowl. The other point, I think, is this was entirely avoidable at UCONN if someone had simply taken care of business. Whether that goes to Calhoun, the AD, or someone else, everyone on th eplanet knew UCONN was flirting with APR issues. And I'm sorry, but you need to treat APR in the same way an NFL GM treats the salary cap. It is part of the equation. might be a silly calculation, as upstate contends, but that doesn't relieve the staff from having to pay attention to it.

I don't contend it's a silly calculation. I contend it perverts education and academic goals. Jay Bilas and Susan Herbst have said the same.

 

[caw]

I don't contend it's a silly calculation. I contend it perverts education and academic goals. Jay Bilas and Susan Herbst have said the same.

The problem is there is no way to keep schools accountable that makes any sense. APR is sadly the best there is right now. I think if the NCAA is serious about keeping these kids student-athletes they should be compared to other students. That is pretty hard to accomplish though. It's even harder when you are going across schools. I knew a few kids who could have done quite well at a school like UK or KU or even UConn but failed out of the schools they were at because of different academic standards. To be fair they probably couldn't have competed at those schools athletically, but they were D1 athletes.

 

[RS9999X]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument the APR rewards the 1 or 2 years pros at the expense of the 4 year student who struggles with upper level classes.

OTOH UConn had a great APR last year. A great APR this fall. Is the difference hiring an APR compliance officer and a new sense of urgency including in-house bench sitting for skipping class or missing major assignments? If that's the case then I''m not at all sure the NCAA is wrong in a general sense. UConn could have done better. This seems to be implied. Holding the post- season future of the freshmen over the head of the upperclassmen isn't a bad motivator either. It doesn't mean everyone will pass but it certainly identifies the selfish jerks who didn't try.

 

[60'sfan]

jacobs is correct on this I htink. there are some logistical concerns as caw notes, but the real issue here is that this is a public relations matter for the NCAA, not a real concern with academics. There are ways to address the academic issues, but they won't really go after those. And the problem with this being a public relations matter for the NCAA is that they have to nail some big fish. Nobody is going care if the University of Northern South Dakota gets banned from the NCAA Tournament or is Eastern West Virginia can't go to the Weedeater Bowl. The other point, I think, is this was entirely avoidable at UCONN if someone had simply taken care of business. Whether that goes to Calhoun, the AD, or someone else, everyone on th eplanet knew UCONN was flirting with APR issues. And I'm sorry, but you need to treat APR in the same way an NFL GM treats the salary cap. It is part of the equation. might be a silly calculation, as upstate contends, but that doesn't relieve the staff from having to pay attention to it.

I agree with you but does anyone else know who the other schools are that are banned from the NCAA tournament next year? We can't be the only one.

 

[freescooter]

I don't contend it's a silly calculation. I contend it perverts education and academic goals. Jay Bilas and Susan Herbst have said the same.

By silly, I meant it doesn't do what it is puported to do...counter productive if you will.

In part, though, the NCAA is damned if they do, damned if they don't. And in part they are unwilling to take the steps that they SHOULD take to insure that the players that end up on campus are there as real student athletes. And working with the NBA to eliminate or greatly restrictin gthe 1 and done phenomonon. Things like increasing standards for admission. Restricting scholarships for players leaving early. Pushing the NBA to make the D-league a true minor league like baseball has. Requireing student athletes to have SAT scores more comparable with those of the student body. I personally would favor limiting freshman eligibility for some sports. Bring back freshman games, and give the players another year of eligibility at the end unless a player meets above average academic criteria. In effect, I favor forcing those guyw who have no real interest in being in college to go directly to the pros, be it the D-league, Europe, or somewhere else.

 

[gibhunter]

Easy solution to this problem. Keep players off the court their first semester. The only way they get to play is if their grades make the cut the prior semester. You don't study you don't play. Simple.

 

[RS9999X]

It's an old issue.

"3wing kan't read dis" was one of the first public scandals in basketball standards. Certainly for the Big East

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1125122/2/index.htm


Seniors are all around, placed as if by design at every key position where they might serve as mentors for the recruits. One is Center Ed Spriggs, a 25-year-old former post-office worker whom Thompson discovered in Washington while watching games in the Melvin's Crab House summer league. Spriggs didn't play sports in high school. For three years he worked at the post office in Riverdale, Md., "out on the loading platform, inside and driving a truck," and often was seen with his younger brothers, Gregory and Larry, who mirror his 6'9", 240-pound physique.

It's Spriggs's duty to lean on Ewing in practice, to muscle him, test him, toughen him up.

If Ewing, who was born in Jamaica and moved to Massachusetts when he was 12, could be confronted, it would be interesting to hear if he sounds like Bob Marley or Tip O'Neill and to know how he is getting along in the classroom, because he has a reading deficiency. Among the extraordinary academic conditions demanded of recruiters by Ewing's family and his Cambridge Rindge & Latin High coach were permission for Ewing to tape-record lectures and take untimed testing once he got to college.

Thompson denies that Georgetown, which has a distinguished academic reputation, made any deals regarding Ewing's course of study. "I am not hiding anybody or anything," says Thompson. We're not talking about a messiah here. Or an illiterate savage. Just a very special kid."

 

[freescooter]

In fact those are accomodations that most universities would make for most students with certain types of leaning disablities. That isn't what we're talking about here, though. And in fact, Ewing didn't leave Georgetown early for the NBA. Certainly wasn't a 1-done.

I'm talking aobut that problem and what it has done to college basketball...and how it has really made a mockery of the whole idea of student athletes. I'd rank that as the #1 problem, tv money as #2. And they are related, if only because the NCAA doesn't want to do anything about #1 for fear they'll lose money on their CBS deal. Establish higher admission standards. Limit available participation for freshmen until they demonstrate proficiency in college level work. Reduce scholarship awards for every player who leaves early without graduating, or doesn't transfer to another legitimate educational institution. You're going to lose a few kids who are just killing time until they go pro. You're going to lose a few kids to less demanding schools, perhaps, but there is nothing wrong with that. You avoid the phony concern with academics that results in thenCAA making public relations decisions as opposed to real ones.

 

[prankster]

There is one issue and one issue, only...

And tht issue is whether or not you can look backwards in time to figure out who you want to screw over, and then establish the limits in such a way as to screw them over.

I will not argue whether UConn was "flirting" with APR issues two or three years ago....

I will openly state that UConn lived within the established limits imposed by the NCAA and then UConn did three things:

1. UConn accepted its loss of scholarships
2. UConn proactively addressed the identified deficiencies.
3. UConn made substantial progress in elevating the APR

The NCAA is WAY over the line in going back in time to where UConn is incapable of making any changes that will have any affect on the APR, collecting up those years within their new metric, and then punishing the institution, once again, on top of the current loss of scholarships.

The University is being punished twice, in successive years, with increasingly harsh penalties each year, for precisely the same infraction....

In any other situation, whether you would be assessing workplace performance, or your child's behavior, or anything else....where one penalty has already been imposed, and where demonstrable improvement is already in evidence, one does not invent a mechanism to allow themselves to go back and impose an even harsher penalty for the same infraction.

The law has mechanisms to prevent that...

The NCAA is just a fundamentally corrupt bunch of venial bastards who, rightfully, belong in jail, as opposed to sitting in judgement of institutions of higher learning...

 

[freescooter]

The NCAA can make any rule it wants and apply double jeopardy, tripple jeopardy, self incrimiantion, waterboarding, well maybe not waterboarding. It isn't subject to the rule of law as would be a public entity. The courts have made that clear. it is a private association and as long as it not violating some law, or violating its own bylaws, its actions are not really subjec to a court challenge. The court in the Tarkanian matter ruled that if you are dissatisfied with an NCAA ruling you have the option of leaving the organization just as you do if you aren't happy with the rules at your tennis club. Or you can go through the process to change the rules. After all, the NCAA is a membership organization, and the college presidents who make up the governing body canmake any rule they want . It isn't like Emerett is a king. he can be fired or overridden by the members any time they want to do it. The rules they follow can be modified any time 50% plus 1 members decide to change them. so if you have a bitch with the organization, seems to me that the route to go is complain to Susan Herbst, who is part of the NCAA governing body, or Walt Harrison, or the president of yale, or the President of Ohio State or the President of Connecticut College...

 

[upstater]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument the APR rewards the 1 or 2 years pros at the expense of the 4 year student who struggles with upper level classes.

OTOH UConn had a great APR last year. A great APR this fall. Is the difference hiring an APR compliance officer and a new sense of urgency including in-house bench sitting for skipping class or missing major assignments? If that's the case then I''m not at all sure the NCAA is wrong in a general sense. UConn could have done better. This seems to be implied. Holding the post- season future of the freshmen over the head of the upperclassmen isn't a bad motivator either. It doesn't mean everyone will pass but it certainly identifies the selfish jerks who didn't try.

UConn is doing 3 compulsory summer courses, one week intersession courses, etc. Remember, when they were in NYC over Christmas break? There was a news report they were visiting art galleries for the 1 week intersession courses. If these things didn't exist in prior years, thereby forcing a full Spring schedule on students, then there was a lot more pressure on the players from a few years ago than there is now.

I'm not necessarily against these courses if they supplement the main coursework toward degree, but these are pure MONEY makers for universities for a variety of reasons, and that's why they are offered. But these are very rarely core courses that fulfill requirements, nor are they taught by full-time faculty. This is the so-called clustering Bilas was referring to.

As I read it, making the APR is no big deal.

 

[DogMania]

How about this? For the few programs that would not quality in 2013 to take into account the 2011-12 APR score as an exception year since this is new. Then for 2014 and beyond calculate it the way they're doing it now since by then programs should have no excuses. We're not talking rocket science here. Just fairness and common sense. This way the NCAA will only have to chase recent APR scores for only a handfull of programs.

 

[willie99]

y'all are talking about 2012

let's start with 2011