ND Update

[MattMang23]

Per Chip Brown:


ChipBrownOBChip Brown

Sources tell Orangebloods.com Notre Dame will decide in 60 days if it will move non-fball sports out of Big East (possibly to Big 12).

 

[Rumrunner]

More Texas insight.

Wonder why they are leaking this now?

They need UofL or WVU for next season.

Trying to smoke Notre Dame out to what end?

 

[Vowelguy]

BS detector is off the charts.
Why o why would ND leave the other Catholics, its Eastern alums, and major markets for the B12?

 

[Vuce]

I agree. And why would the Big 12 ALLOW ND other sports in without football. I am not buying this at all.

 

[TRest]

I can answer that now: No, they won't.

 

[businesslawyer]

Actually, yes, they will. For the same reason the Big EAst kept them all these years. The Big XII would never get them to play football and the Big XII would have more good than harm by having their hoops.

And, despite the recent pronouncement, when the Big XII offers the Irish this the ACC will follow.

 

[Vuce]

Bizlaw - you mean after all the ACC blustering that they will in fact offer ND other sports but not football? All they have been talking about is equality, etc. And then they are going to back down? I guess with their backstabbing over the years I should not be surprised.

 

[businesslawyer]

They were negotiating through the media, and feeding red meat to their supporters. As for what happens, we will all just have to watch it play out

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I'm still a bit of a skeptic on any other major conference accomodating ND the way the BE has but as UT's ultimate goal (after the LHN has been fully operational for many years) goal is to go indyu in football as ND has, I can see them behind this (as a means of laying the groundwork for them in a decade). I'm curious as to how the television rights ceding would work in ND's case (if I were another B-12 member I would demand that they be as fully committed; i.e. have their football revenues in jeopardy as well).

There may be some noise here but there was noise on many things over the past eighteen months (including Pitt to the B-10) that never materialized. I'll believe that this is different when I see it.

 

[MattMang23]

Is it worth it for the ACC to offer ND an all-but-football deal to get them into the ACC now with the hope that if super conferences end up developing say, in a year or two, they'd have an in-roads to getting ND to commit their fb team then? I'd say it would be. Of course such an offer would have to be contingent on the Big XII making the same offer. No need to back down on the demand of football being included until it is necessary to do so.

 

[junglehusky]

yeah if I recall correctly, there were leaks that they (ACC and/or ND) were looking at partial scheduling, i.e., 4 games a year against ACC foes, but then last week we heard all the basketball coaches spout the talking points about equal sharing etc.

Perhaps the ACC and the Big 12 both saw the results of Notre Dames supposed deal to play more Big East teams.

 

[minidarren]

Isnt ND's AD the chair of the Big East expansion committee or some BS like that?

 

[TRest]

Actually, yes, they will. For the same reason the Big EAst kept them all these years. The Big XII would never get them to play football and the Big XII would have more good than harm by having their hoops.

And, despite the recent pronouncement, when the Big XII offers the Irish this the ACC will follow.

I meant that ND would not say yes to this, the B12 are not in the markets the Irish are interested in.

 

[noeynox]

Actually, yes, they will. For the same reason the Big EAst kept them all these years. The Big XII would never get them to play football and the Big XII would have more good than harm by having their hoops.

And, despite the recent pronouncement, when the Big XII offers the Irish this the ACC will follow.

I really doubt this. A hoops league with UNC, DUKE, CUSE is not going to be enhanced all that much by ND hoops. If they're doing it because they hope ND football would one day join the ACC, they should look and see how that worked out for the Big East. ND's crown jewel that they offer is football, and they're not going to ever share that with anyone as long as there is a high profile conference for their other sports. Once that avenue disappears, then you may one day see them join a conference.

 

[UConnJim]

I think the statement from Chip Brown is true about ND making a decision on conference membership. Over the next 60 days, we will know if the BE implodes or not. If the B12 takes 3 BE schools, BE football is dead and the basketball onlys will probably split from the football schools. In my opinion, ND is not sticking with the basketball onlys. ND may only have the choice of the B12 if the ACC will not allow them to be a partial member.

 

[CL82]

They were negotiating through the media, and feeding red meat to their supporters. As for what happens, we will all just have to watch it play out

What's the upside to them. They don't need the hoops help. Football schools want to get stronger. ND for other sports doesn't do that. If we come along for the ride, I'm all for it but...

 

[flyonthewall]

I think the statement from Chip Brown is true about ND making a decision on conference membership. Over the next 60 days, we will know if the BE implodes or not. If the B12 takes 3 BE schools, BE football is dead and the basketball onlys will probably split from the football schools. In my opinion, ND is not sticking with the basketball onlys. ND may only have the choice of the B12 if the ACC will not allow them to be a partial member.

This scenario makes a lot of sense because if the B12 takes WVU, Cincy and Louisville what is left of the BE? The Catholic schools do not offer a full range of Olympic sports and B12 hoops is with the three BE schools better than what is left of the BE.

 

[businesslawyer]

What's the upside to them. They don't need the hoops help. Football schools want to get stronger. ND for other sports doesn't do that. If we come along for the ride, I'm all for it but...

Nothing to this poster, but people here seem to mean "doesn't need them" is the same is "can't make more money with them." The ACC doesn't need Notre Dame for hoops, any more than the Big EAst did. But the Big East had them because they determined there was more money to be made with them than without them. And, despite the concensus here, I still believe the Big XII and ACC will reach the same conclusions.

 

[SubbaBub]

If ND leaves it will be because their ego, if a university can have one, requires them to associate with high prestige athletic programs. The BE worked for them because of BB. In spite of what some think the catholic league, doesn't cut it in national recognition.

The BBs must be pressing them to declare their intentions, so they can evaluate a BB split. The 60 days allows the football season to end and the B12/SEC dust to settle.

ND out of the BE, is the first step to ending the uncertainty and the best chance for UConn to find a home. All the better if they leave on their own.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

 

[Vowelguy]

Nothing to this poster, but people here seem to mean "doesn't need them" is the same is "can't make more money with them." The ACC doesn't need Notre Dame for hoops, any more than the Big EAst did. But the Big East had them because they determined there was more money to be made with them than without them. And, despite the concensus here, I still believe the Big XII and ACC will reach the same conclusions.

I've never argued that ND isn't valuable. But the question remains: what does ND get out of going to the B12? I don't see it by a mile.

 

[noeynox]

Nothing to this poster, but people here seem to mean "doesn't need them" is the same is "can't make more money with them." The ACC doesn't need Notre Dame for hoops, any more than the Big EAst did. But the Big East had them because they determined there was more money to be made with them than without them. And, despite the concensus here, I still believe the Big XII and ACC will reach the same conclusions.

What do you base this on? If this was true, don't you think the Big Ten, where they are a more natural fit in just about every way, would have allowed them in for other sports and allowed to keep their football independent?

I sometimes wonder if this systematic destroying of the Big East isn't a way to force Notre Dame into a conference for football. If none of the remaining 5 BCS conferences allow ND in without bringing football, what do they do? ND is already dropping hints that they wouldn't be happy sticking with Catholic/hoop only schools.

 

[Vowelguy]

If ND leaves it will be because their ego, if a university can have one, requires them to associate with high prestige athletic programs. The BE worked for them because of BB. In spite of what some think the catholic league, doesn't cut it in national recognition.

The BBs must be pressing them to declare their intentions, so they can evaluate a BB split. The 60 days allows the football season to end and the B12/SEC dust to settle.

ND out of the BE, is the first step to ending the uncertainty and the best chance for UConn to find a home. All the better if they leave on their own.

Nothing in this post makes an iota of sense to me.

 

[businesslawyer]

I've never argued that ND isn't valuable. But the question remains: what does ND get out of going to the B12? I don't see it by a mile.

I can answer that one of two ways. And it may be some of both

1. They do care somewhat about their other sports, they don't think a small catholic conference is the answer and if the Big EAst loses its football schools they are going somewhere else and the only question is where is the best place they can go without bringing football.

2. They have no interest in going to the Big XII. They have interest in going to the ACC or Big Ten. The Big Ten will never take them without football. The ACC will, and Swofford already wants to, but needs "cover" to get this through his membership. The Big XII inviting them provides that cover.

 

[freescooter]

I really doubt this. A hoops league with UNC, DUKE, CUSE is not going to be enhanced all that much by ND hoops. If they're doing it because they hope ND football would one day join the ACC, they should look and see how that worked out for the Big East. ND's crown jewel that they offer is football, and they're not going to ever share that with anyone as long as there is a high profile conference for their other sports. Once that avenue disappears, then you may one day see them join a conference.

The B-12 isn't a home for the Notre Dame "other" sports. That is one problem with the scenario people lay out. There are a couple of significant holes. ND has a natioanlly ranked soccer team. The B-12 doesn't offer soccer. Natioanlly ranked lacrosse team. B-12, nope. Several other sports where ND excels are sponsored by the B-12 but at very modest levels. Both th eBig East and the ACC sponsor programs which are better suited to the Irish than the B-12. And while many schools wouldn't care that much, Notre Dame actually does care about having good homes for its other programs. Would it be a deal breaker? Probably not. But a consideration? Absolutley.

While we're at it, can somebody explain the love affair with Syracuse basketball? I keep reading how that is going to be the great addition to the ACC. But then I look at Syracuse's actual performance and I have to say huh? Compared with UCONN, Duke, UNC Syracuse is much more a second tier program. They won a national championship in 2003 but haven't been past the Sweet 16 since. Before that they hadn't been to an Elite 8 since 1996. So it isn't like they are a perrenial national championship contender. In fact, there 3 Final Four appearances were all more or less as dark horses. Indeed, without that great run in 2003 with a rented player, the Orange have been mostly Pittian (eg one who gags in the NCAA Tournement as the Pitt Panters regularly do) in the NCAA Tourney, regualrly losing to lower seeds. They have been a great rival for UCONN, but as far as post season performances, it isn't even close. Over the past 20 years this is what you see:

NCAA invites: S-16 C-16
National Champs S-1 C-3
Final Fours S-2 C-4
Other Elite 8 S-0 C-5
Other S-16 S-6 C-9

 

[Vowelguy]

2. They have no interest in going to the Big XII.

Exactly.

I dont know what an empty threat accomplishes, unless everyone else is too dumb to realize it's an empty threat.

And if, in a related note, empty threats are working these days, let me add this: "Hey Boneyarders, send me all your money or I will have you sent to jail."