NCAA studies idea of 1 transfer with no penalty [merged thread]

[CocoHusky]

Cat: Most stories I've read regarding Shepard's waiver had Irish coaches (very pleasantly) surprised that it was granted, in part because the NCAA kept asking for more (and more) information.

As per MM's stance, I can tell you that she didn't go down the hall to talk to her boss, Jack Swarbrick, because he was pushing for it at the ACC meeting. Here's his quote:

Jack Swarbrick, Notre Dame athletic director

"We were at ACC meetings last week, and I advocated for it. There are all kinds of issues still to be resolved, but there's a fundamental fairness in this that I think is important to honor. I'm always looking to find ways to normalize the experience of the student who is an athlete against that of the student who's not an athlete. I think this is a good step in that direction.

"The flip side of a one-time transfer is the second transfer ought to be really difficult, only under extraordinary circumstances. The waiver window on that for me would be really, really small. It would be small and specific and we get out of this whole nonsense we have now with the waiver process.

"When you have the Big Ten and the ACC come out in favor of this conceptually, and I would guess you would see similar sentiments from other conferences, it tells you you're going to get there, you just have to figure out exactly what the process looks like."

Muffet is not gonna go down the hall and talk to her boss - he is a man!

 

[j66kicker]

[QUOTE="CocoHusky, post: 3454666, member:]There was one coach in this article who said what is going to change is that coaches are going to have to spend time each year re-recruiting their own players. I think this is a good thing, certainly more work for the coaches but shouldn’t they be going that anyway?[/QUOTE]

Great point! In business you keep your good employees not with no-compete agreements, but by providing them benefits like free education, which would help them qualify for better jobs outside- and inside - your company, and you get them to want to work for you.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Mid year transfers should be disqualified. Imagine a top-five team with a real shot at the national championship. In November, their point guard suffers an ACL tear. Now imagine a senior point guard at another school who has no shot of doing anything that year...her team is rebuilding. Would she transfer for shot at the national championship?

That wouldn't be allowed under the proposed rule - or under current rules.

 

[stamfordhusky]

.
one of the football guys spelled out what's likely to change in recruiting and I think it applies to basketball recruiting too:

"What would be the motivation for universities to recruit from high schools any more? You're basically going to recruit off other campuses. Dependent upon where you are on that food chain, it's going to affect how many high school athletes you would actually take. From a coaching perspective, many times it's easier to take a proven player off another campus. I don't think the fan bases are going to enjoy this, either."

I think he may be right..............

He absolutely is right. This rule is a disaster for all schools except the very top ones. The average P6 schools and all midmajors are going to be looted right and left. They will find and develop players, only to have them stolen on many occasions.

 

[DEpup]

The argument against allowing a one-time transfer is that it will lead to coaches poaching players from other teams. Some here will recall that one of best ever at doing that was Pat Summitt back before the rules were changed to require a year in residence.

Muffet's comments;

"What we're saying is with this is, 'That's the way society is, let's let them do what they want.' The really scary part is, I feel like you're going to be in the handshake line after a game with people saying, 'Hey, you didn't play much today, why don't you come over here?'

"I like the way it is now, so I think it would be a terrible thing to do."

That is life in the big bad world. Why should bball coaches be shielded from being good leaders and retaining their players? Every supervisor in the world has to do that.

 

[Charliebball]

I think he may be wrong and our judgement maybe clouded by the Jessica Shepard transfer because we hate ND. Number of Impact undergraduate transfers who were declared immediately eligible and resulted in a National championship = 1= Jessica Shepard. There was one coach in this article who said what is going to change is that coaches are going to have to spend time each year re-recruiting their own players. I think this is a good thing, certainly more work for the coaches but shouldn’t they be doing that anyway?

If the NCAA actually opens up one time immediate transfers to every eligible DI player don't you think we'll see a number of Jessica Shepards in the next few years...........? If this was already in effect when UConn was "short" a post player, I would think a quality post player would jump at the chance to play for Geno and a possible championship if they didn't have to sit out a year.........

 

[BBallF]

It's free agency for college players. " Hey Coach, we need a point guard. Let's see who we can get in the transfer portal". It will really hurt the non-top tier schools. The problem is that the NCAA has been less than uniform in the application of their own Rules and there is no further appeal to the Courts so no real review of what they do.

 

[CocoHusky]

If the NCAA actually opens up one time immediate transfers to every eligible DI player don't you think we'll see a number of Jessica Shepards in the next few years...........? If this was already in effect when UConn was "short" a post player, I would think a quality post player would jump at the chance to play for Geno and a possible championship if they didn't have to sit out a year.........

No I don't. First of all there are not "a number" of Jessica Shepard out there. There is probably only 1 post player of that caliber per class normally. IDK seems to me UCONN is short a quality post player for next season, let's see what happens.

 

[Dillon77]

No I don't. First of all there are not "a number" of Jessica Shepard out there. There is probably only 1 post player of that caliber per class normally. IDK seems to me UCONN is short a quality post player for next season, let's see what happens.

Coco: Question for you. In all the articles you and others have posted (thanks, by the way), most summaries say that if this is voted forward in April the law would take effect in the 20-21 academic year. My question is does that mean it allows for immediate transfers who can then play in the 20-21 year? Or is the entire process -- from deciding to transfer to portal to acceptance -- starting in 2020-21. I can't get my arms around that. Thanks to you or anyone else who has better insight/information.

BTW, I agree with you: Jessica Shepards are not hanging around to add at any given time. Given how she did at Nebraska her sophomore season, I'm not sure anyone could've predicted that kind of immediate and dramatic impact on the ND team (remembering that was a team that lost their All-American Center).

 

[UcMiami]

I do think the Shepard situation has had an disproportionate affect on WCBB fans because it seemed to come out of the blue and hasn't been repeated.

People seem to think the sit-out year is some sort of cruel and unusual punishment and yet the number of athletes and number of star athletes transferring has steadily increased and I don't really hear complaints from the athletes. We hear fans and coaches but ... The biggest complaints and the serious backlash has been about colleges not granting release which forces the athlete to pay for the sit-out year.

Personally, getting an extra year of college fees paid (if they stay for full eligibility) and a year to actually watch and practice but not play is not that bad a deal. And making transfers a little painful isn't that bad - it makes the initial decision to sign an NLI more important, and the decision to transfer also more important.

Not sure I want Geno having to re-recruit all his players every year; seems to be a recipe for potential disaster. And it would seems to add pressure to the athletes from friends and family if their immediate freshman experience isn't 'perfect'.

One adjustment to this that might be interesting - make the free transfer available only after sophomore season. They could still transfer during or after their freshman year, but would have to sit out.

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco: Question for you. In all the articles you and others have posted (thanks, by the way), most summaries say that if this is voted forward in April the law would take effect in the 20-21 academic year. My question is does that mean it allows for immediate transfers who can then play in the 20-21 year? Or is the entire process -- from deciding to transfer to portal to acceptance -- starting in 2020-21. I can't get my arms around that. Thanks to you or anyone else who has better insight/information.

BTW, I agree with you: Jessica Shepards are not hanging around to add at any given time. Given how she did at Nebraska her sophomore season, I'm not sure anyone could've predicted that kind of immediate and dramatic impact on the ND team (remembering that was a team that lost their All-American Center).

I think the way this has been systematically leaked out, such as the two conferences backing the motion before it was voted on would mean transfers starting this summer. Football is the driver here because camps start in July/August time frame. For basketball I could see the same thing with kids transferring to attend summer sessions at the new school to get a head start on academics and used to new teammates.
BTW I was mocked (by a few) on the BY when I suggested that UCONN should have been in on Jessica Shepard when she decided to transfer. UCONN played Nebraska in both her Freshman and Sophomore seasons. I did not see ND coming I was more worried when Jessica took a visit to South Carolina.

 

[Dillon77]

I think the way this has been systematically leaked out, such as the two conferences backing the motion before it was voted on would mean transfers starting this summer. Football is the driver here because camps start in July/August time frame. For basketball I could see the same thing with kids transferring to attend summer sessions at the new school to get a head start on academics and used to new teammates.
BTW I was mocked (by a few) on the BY when I suggested that UCONN should have been in on Jessica Shepard when she decided to transfer. UCONN played Nebraska in both her Freshman and Sophomore seasons. I did not see ND coming I was more worried when Jessica took a visit to South Carolina.

Thanks for that insight. I was (kinda) thinking along the same lines, but wanted to get your take on it. Like others (Orangutan), I'm not totally sold on a Gilbert/Hayes combo approach to PG next year at ND, but I'm also a bit apprehensive about a(nother) one-and-done grad point guard (for continuity sakes with a youngish team).

On the other hand, if there's a first-time PG transfer available.....

BTW, regarding Shepard and ND, Jess has told some good stories regarding her coming to ND beyond the stuff you read in press releases. She was familiar and friendly with a number of the ND players from National Teams and camps. The one most cited is Bri Turner. However, to hear Jess tell it, the Domer who pushed early and (very) often was one Marina Mabrey. Not just with Jess, but with MM and Carol Owens.

Mabrey, for all her "Marinaness," ( , ) has an eye for who would fit in with the Irish: she had also seen Katie Cole play in a bookstore basketball game Katie's freshman year. When MM decided she needed walk-ons, it was Marina putting Coach and Cole together.

 

[Steelerone]

In the final analysis it will come down to what the Power Five conferences and television wants. When they say it's not about the money it's all about the money. I personally am a little conflicted on this issue. Yes, the student should have the freedom to transfer but if he or she has accepted a scholarship they have some responsibility to honor it. If the school offers the scholarship it should be honored for the full four years, regardless of any injury sustained. And most importantly, if a coach from another school is found attempting to "poach" a player and it is proven, that coach should not be allowed to coach under any circumstances for a period not less than five years.

 

[CocoHusky]

Thanks for that insight. I was (kinda) thinking along the same lines, but wanted to get your take on it. Like others (Orangutan), I'm not totally sold on a Gilbert/Hayes combo approach to PG next year at ND, but I'm also a bit apprehensive about a(nother) one-and-done grad point guard (for continuity sakes with a youngish team).
On the other hand, if there's a first-time PG transfer available.....
BTW, regarding Shepard and ND, Jess has told some good stories regarding her coming to ND beyond the stuff you read in press releases. She was familiar and friendly with a number of the ND players from National Teams and camps. The one most cited is Bri Turner. However, to hear Jess tell it, the Domer who pushed early and (very) often was one Marina Mabrey. Not just with Jess, but with MM and Carol Owens.
Mabrey, for all her "Marinaness," ( , ) has an eye for who would fit in with the Irish: she had also seen Katie Cole play in a bookstore basketball game Katie's freshman year. When MM decided she needed walk-ons, it was Marina putting Coach and Cole together.

Speaking of which has @Orangutan quit us? If so please relay that I miss the insights and the occasionally disagreements.

 

[Orangutan]

Speaking of which has @Orangutan quit us? If so please relay that I miss the insights and the occasionally disagreements.

I'm still lurking. ND's struggles plus a new-ish job that has been eating a lot of my focus/energy has been keeping me away.

But I'll be watching the NCAA tournament so I'm sure I'll be here unleashing some hot takes.

 

[oldude]

I'm still lurking. ND's struggles plus a new-ish job that has been eating a lot of my focus/energy has been keeping me away.

But I'll be watching the NCAA tournament so I'm sure I'll be here unleashing some hot takes.

You mean to suggest that you actually have a life outside WBB?......

 

[Dillon77]

You mean to suggest that you actually have a life outside WBB?......

The nerve (right )
Look forward to input during the NCAA and the WNBA!

 

[CocoHusky]

It will be interesting to see the impact on APR and graduation rates. Most schools require a minimum number of credits earned at that school to graduate. For athletes who transfer after their junior year, this effectively means they have to spend an extra year at a new school in order to get a diploma. If you were looking to play professionally, you aren’t likely to want to hang around that extra year especially if you’ve used up your eligibility because you didn’t have to sit a year. I can’t see players in that situation being super motivated to do school work.

Those were excellent points by you that was overlooked (at least by me) the first time around until I was talking to a friend this weekend. The APR requirements are going to make many coaches reluctant to take Junior and definitely senior because of precisely what you stated-"Most schools require a minimum number of credits earned at that school to graduate.". The APR will have to be revised , the transfer portal will have to be revised, and the waiver process will also have to be revised. Unless someone is working on all of that right now I don see a Academic year "20-21 Implementation. Which is exactly the opposite of what I predicted in my response to @Dillon77.

 

[iri10]

re: the potential for top teams to completely loot other teams: what if there were sharp limits on the number of zero-penalty incoming transfers a school could accept?

At the very most, limit a team to one such incoming transfer a year - any other transfers that year would have to sit a year. You might even consider allowing less than one zero-penalty transfers a year. One every two years, for instance.

This wouldn't stop the whole looting aspect, but it would at least slow it down by creating bottlenecks. Top teams would not be able to simply pick and choose from the best players from teams one or more tiers down like a buffet. They'd have to think long and hard if it's worth taking the player given current and future roster considerations.

 

[UcMiami]

re: the potential for top teams to completely loot other teams: what if there were sharp limits on the number of zero-penalty incoming transfers a school could accept?

At the very most, limit a team to one such incoming transfer a year - any other transfers that year would have to sit a year. You might even consider allowing less than one zero-penalty transfers a year. One every two years, for instance.

This wouldn't stop the whole looting aspect, but it would at least slow it down by creating bottlenecks. Top teams would not be able to simply pick and choose from the best players from teams one or more tiers down like a buffet. They'd have to think long and hard if it's worth taking the player given current and future roster considerations.

The problem is that the lesser schools typically have one superior player so losing that one player is devastating to the team and can make an immediate impact on a conference and the NCAA. Think an EDD being snatched from Delaware (forgetting that she had transferred once before in this example); any good team that got her would be an instant FF favorite and Delaware would disappear back into obscurity.

This is more of an issue with the men since the whole reason the mid-majors in the men's field are so good is most of their players play all four years and develop chemistry - take their best player away each year for some P5 program and you create less parity which supposedly is what makes the men's game so good. But it could screw up the women's game as well. There are enough good players out there on mediocre teams that Baylor, Uconn, SC etc. could easily become recipients of not just recruiting success but also destinations for quick transfers of significant talent.

No question it would have been nice to get Azura and have her available day 1 or Evina this year, but I am not sure I like the idea of that kind of changing landscape year to year. I like the development process in WCBB over 4 years and I hate the hired gun/one and done process that is MCBB

 

[Carnac]

Geno weighs in.

Last week, the NCAA announced that its Transfer Waiver Working Group is considering a concept that would grant first-time transfers in all sports immediate eligibility. As far as UConn coach Geno Auriemma is concerned, it’s a matter of when, not if, a rule like that will be implemented.

UConn coach Geno Auriemma on the NCAA’s new proposal for one-time transfer exceptions: ‘That’s a definite, you can bet on that’

Last week, the NCAA announced that its Transfer Waiver Working Group is considering a concept that would grant first-time transfers in all sports immediate eligibility. As far as UConn coach Geno A…

www.courant.com