NCAA house of cards falling.

[Icebear]

http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2013/01/ncaa-investigation-of-miami-destroys.html?m=1

How long can Mark Emmert survive.

 

[ThisJustIn]

http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2013/01/ncaa-investigation-of-miami-destroys.html?m=1

How long can Mark Emmert survive.

So, Ice, not following the post-Sandusky fall out, do you agree that
every sanction against Penn State was leveled as a result of the corrupt Freeh Report, a proceeding, to quote Emmert, " that did not involve the NCAA".

That all the sanctions against Penn State were based solely on the Freeh Report, a report that has been discredited and demolished by people with actual investigative and legal knowledge and rife with evidence of dishonesty,intimidation, misrepresentation, subterfuge and smear tactics by Freeh substantiated by statements from witnesses interviewed by Freeh that was more pervasive than anything seen in a major investigation outside of the smearing of the innocent Richard Jewell as the Olympic Bomber in 1996, a smear campaign also orchestrated by then FBI director Louis Freeh, completely invalidates the NCAA sanctions against Penn State even on its own terms.

 

[Icebear]

So, Ice, not following the post-Sandusky fall out, do you agree that
every sanction against Penn State was leveled as a result of the corrupt Freeh Report, a proceeding, to quote Emmert, " that did not involve the NCAA".

That all the sanctions against Penn State were based solely on the Freeh Report, a report that has been discredited and demolished by people with actual investigative and legal knowledge and rife with evidence of dishonesty,intimidation, misrepresentation, subterfuge and smear tactics by Freeh substantiated by statements from witnesses interviewed by Freeh that was more pervasive than anything seen in a major investigation outside of the smearing of the innocent Richard Jewell as the Olympic Bomber in 1996, a smear campaign also orchestrated by then FBI director Louis Freeh, completely invalidates the NCAA sanctions against Penn State even on its own terms.

The NCAA has already admitted that the Freeh report was the sole basis of the sanctions and that they did not do "any" investigation of their own. Emmert, also, admitted in a public speech that it was outside the defined rules of the NCAA except in the vaguest interpretation.

As to the first bolding I do know that a variety of investigative sources have found the report significantly flawed and that is part of the governor's basis for the law suit along with his plumitting polling numbers. Freeh himself, also, has made a statement that his report was not designed or intended to be used as the NCAA has used it.

As to the Jewell stuff silly hyperbole that was unnecessary for the points being made.

 

[wire chief]

Sure, discredit the NCAA & Freeh all you want, but the bottom line is Sandusky and his Penn State enablers promulgated stomach-turning behaviors that must be punished. I have zero sympathies for Penn State.

 

[geordi]

Sure, discredit the NCAA & Freeh all you want, but the bottom line is Sandusky and his Penn State enablers promulgated stomach-turning behaviors that must be punished. I have zero sympathies for Penn State.

But that's not the issue. Everyone agrees with that comment. The question is "punished by who?" Emmert had no jurisdiction and only made a grandstand play to increase his own worth.

 

[wire chief]

But that's not the issue. Everyone agrees with that comment. The question is "punished by who?" Emmert had no jurisdiction and only made a grandstand play to increase his own worth.

But weren't the sanctions initially offered by the Penn St administration?

 

[Icebear]

But weren't the sanctions initially offered by the Penn St administration?

No, they were agreed to because the NCAA threatened the "death penalty" if they were not accepted as given. The interim president, Rodney Erickson, accpeted them without the authority to do so which is another lawsuit. All actions were taken before legal investigations were completed and all facts gathered. It is the people of Centre County that have charged and brought Sandusky to justice. There is no clear evidence on record of PSU enabling the situation outside of Curley and Swartz. Tim Curley and Gary Swartz are charged and their trials are to start shortly. This mess is what happens when people rush to judgment and do not let the legal process play out. It still remains unclear what anyone outside of Curley and Swartz knew. Too much of the public reporting and media information has been solely emotion driven and not fact driven.

Another one of the issues being pursued is PA taxpayer money being taken out of state under the NCAA sanctions rather than remaining completely in state. My understanding is that the NCAA actions have now resulted in over a dozen suits and complaints being filed. The road ahead is messy.

 

[Big Fan]

No if you believe the Penn State administrators Emmert told them he had 100% backing by the NCAA board of university presidents to institute the death penalty. Emmert has since said that is not true, but the Penn State administrators still say that's true.

BTW could you provide a list of who at Penn State has been proven to be an enabler? I don't believe you can find any evidence presented in a court of law that proves this to be correct. In fact I think if you investigate you will find this is not true at all. The district attorney who handled the 1998 case and decided not to prosecute because of lack of evidence, the local school districts and child services that had been made aware and did nothing - those were the true enablers - of course that's not what ESPN reported or the NCAA chose to focus on. And they don’t have the deep pockets.

There is a reason the trials for the president and AD have been postponed again and again by the state - they don't have any evidence.

 

[Icebear]

There is a reason the trials for the president and AD have been postponed again and again by the state - they don't have any evidence.

Spanier himself was not charged until November of 2012. The trials of AD Tim Curley and VP Gary Swartz are the ones postponed. Curley's health is one of the reasons for the postponement. He is battling cancer and reportedly not doing very well at it.

 

[kibblesnbits]

If Penn State wants to argue that the penalties were excessive or not within the powers of the NCAA that is their right. However, the blog post cited is ridiculous in claiming an analogy between the Freeh Report, and cutting a deal in the Miami case with an attorney (probably in violation of the law and ethical standards) to gain access to deposition testimony that the NCAA is not legally entitled to obtain. The Freeh Report was commissioned and published by Penn State. The NCAA regularly utilizes the result of members' internal investigations. When they said they "weren't involved in" the case in Miami that was significant because it defined the legal boundaries for obtaining information via deposition. Just because they weren't involved in the Penn State internal investigation doesn't mean they can't use the publicly generated results of that proceeding - just as they could use any results from the Miami legal case that the judge refused to seal or placed into the public record.

 

[Icebear]

If Penn State wants to argue that the penalties were excessive or not within the powers of the NCAA that is their right. However, the blog post cited is ridiculous in claiming an analogy between the Freeh Report, and cutting a deal in the Miami case with an attorney (probably in violation of the law and ethical standards) to gain access to deposition testimony that the NCAA is not legally entitled to obtain. The Freeh Report was commissioned and published by Penn State. The NCAA regularly utilizes the result of members' internal investigations. When they said they "weren't involved in" the case in Miami that was significant because it defined the legal boundaries for obtaining information via deposition. Just because they weren't involved in the Penn State internal investigation doesn't mean they can't use the publicly generated results of that proceeding - just as they could use any results from the Miami legal case that the judge refused to seal or placed into the public record.

That is indeed something that is possible. Freeh himself has said, however, that the NCAA has used the report in a manner inconsistent with its content and purpose.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I'm not arguing whether the NCAA should or should not have meted out punishment to Penn State. Personally, I don't think they did.

I was asking if you agree the Freeh Report was a smear campaign, as the blog you cite posits.

 

[Icebear]

I think there are definite problems with the Freeh Report. I think calling it a smear campaign is a bit hyperbolic but is a vulnerability that it made itself open to. Local reports have spoken of very heavy handed approaches to interviews of staff and the such. I do think it is a report that has many great and worthy suggestions within it. Improvements to institutional structure and flow are or were undoubtably needed but at the same time the report does scapegoat people, such as, Joe who were not able to defend themselves. Numerous errors of fact have been reported within it. Testimony of Spanier's secretary is purportedly comepletely inaccurate. Calling the Freeh report corrupt should not be seen in a legal sense but in the sense of being flawed or corrupted. The most important thing that could have and should have been done was to let the legal process play out before the rush to any NCAA action which editors from the Sporting News to Sports Illustrated and others have called unprecedented and without basis under NCAA rules. The problem was first and foremost a legal issue the evidence that prosecution involved should have been allowed to emerge. The structural analysis and recommendations of the Freeh report could have and should have been executed without any involvement of the NCAA.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

As a former certified internal auditor, I will simply add that when I read the Freeh report, I read it as a sort of - here is what it looks like went wrong and here is what you need to do to fix it so that it doesn't happen again. Essentially what I did for a living, in a much less significant field.

Like Ice, I long thought that letting the legal system play out was a way to go, although the track record (i.e. 1998 case) could make one nervous.

 

[pap49cba]

House of cards falling? Personally, I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[willtalk]

Irregardless to the validity of the Freeh report, it shouldn't take a great legal mind to recognize that the NCAA really had no authority to hand down any sanctions in the Penn state matter. It was a matter to be handled by the civil authorities and those responsible for the oversight of the University. It could have just as well have happened in any one of the other departments of the University. This is another example of an agency's arrogant attempt at expanding it's authority through the utilization of it's targets feelings of guilt. Guilt has always been an opportune tool for use in establishing unwarranted control over another.