OT: NBA Playoffs

[nelsonmuntz]

Right but around a veteran coaching staff and front office. Having Riley and Spolestra is like having Calhoun as your GM and Hurley as your HC.

The Heat got lucky. They tried a salary dump of Dragic on the first night of free agency in 2019. Your 30 and over men's league team could have had Dragic if you were willing to pick up his contract. The Mavericks initially agreed to take him, and then changed their mind. Do you think Luka would have liked Dragic next to him in the backcourt this year?

Basically ever single GM, including Miami's, blew it in the 2019 offseason on Dragic. That doesn't happen often.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Agreed, I almost forgot he's on the team. I know he's really bad on D but he scores at will in the post on a team that has no post scoring, he should've been brought in against the zone at least for a look.

Kanter's issue has always been that he doesn't take the regular season seriously, but he shows up to play in the playoffs. He had a great playoffs last year, and he could be helping the Celtics this year, but Stevens is not playing him.

 

[superjohn]

Apparently they were launching chairs all over the locker room, possibly at each other.

gary washburn on Twitter: "Been outside a bunch of locker rooms in my days. That’s was as raucous as I’ve ever heard. #Celtics" / Twitter

 

[Huskymagic]

Jayson Tatum=Paul George
Tatum Jayson=George Paul

 

[Mr. French]

He's averaging over 10 rebounds a game, what are you talking about.

I’m talking about tonight’s game in multiple crunch time situations he stood at the 3 point line watching 4-5 heat crash for boards.

A lot of guys did, but he needs to be more aggressive in every aspect. Especially down 1-0 in the 4th Q of a 1-2 possession game. Especially if you’re having people anoint you top 10, superstar level. He could have gotten 12 rebounds and maybe they win the game.

Just saying, I’m not killing him he’s just getting anointed too quickly and easily. He left a lot of plays out there in a big game. He also had a couple lackadaisical passes. I don’t know how many people would disagree that he left some effort plays out there and also could be much more aggressive in general.

 

[auror]

I’m talking about tonight’s game in multiple crunch time situations he stood at the 3 point line watching 4-5 heat crash for boards.

"Never" generally implies more than "in this game", especially when repeated so as to provide emphasis. I agree he didn't make a ton of the little plays today and the turnovers were killers. 21 points on 12 shots is nice, though.

 

[Mr. French]

"Never" generally implies more than "in this game", especially when repeated so as to provide emphasis. I agree he didn't make a ton of the little plays today and the turnovers were killers. 21 points on 12 shots is nice, though.

Understood - I guess I was mostly talking about he never did that yesterday, and I do see him standing around too much. He hovers on that 3 point line like it's his baby. Then you mentioned his rebounds in that game, so my response was mostly dictated towards what I was watching in crunch time of a game down 0-1.

 

[Mr. French]

I can almost guarantee Smart's tirade was about effort and lackadaisical play. It seemed like they were out there in a regular season game in the 3rd and 4th and the Heat were in the Finals. Maybe they're tired. Maybe they're lacking confidence ... not sure but I still have confidence.

If they string together 2 decently complete games, you're 2-2. They should have and could have easily won both of those, that's the mindset they need to have going into game 3.

This could just as well be 2-0 Celtics, you could argue it SHOULD be, and they saw firsthand how things change quickly in close games vs. the Raptors.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This is not that complicated, and it is also not about effort. It is about the stupid lineups the Celtics have on the court. Every coach in the history of basketball was not wrong for playing a Center on occasion. The Celtics got Kanter for the playoffs, so use him in the playoffs.

Stevens almost lost to a star-less Raptors team that had a mediocre offense, and now he has gotten himself down 0-2 to the Heat by playing a 6'8 rebounder and hustler at center against an all-star. I like Theis' heart, but he is not a big time player and should not be starting and playing 30 minutes in a Conference Final. Adebayo can play hero ball in the zone because he doesn't have to worry about Theis' offense at all. That takes away penetration, and enables the Heat to play more aggressive perimeter defense because they have Adebayo behind them to erase any mistakes.

If Kanter was on the court more, Adebayo would have to defend him, which would open up penetration. Kanter would also enable better ball movement because he could flash to the high post as a passing target to get the ball in the middle of the zone. Then the top of the zone defenders would have to drop back to help, leaving Smart, Brown and Tatum open from 3. A decent inside threat creates more and better 3 point opportunities.

I have lost a lot of respect for Stevens in these playoffs. This is stuff a middle school coach could figure out.

 

[Mr. French]

This is not that complicated, and it is also not about effort. It is about the stupid lineups the Celtics have on the court. Every coach in the history of basketball was not wrong for playing a Center on occasion. The Celtics got Kanter for the playoffs, so use him in the playoffs.

Stevens almost lost to a star-less Raptors team that had a mediocre offense, and now he has gotten himself down 0-2 to the Heat by playing a 6'8 rebounder and hustler at center against an all-star. I like Theis' heart, but he is not a big time player and should not be starting and playing 30 minutes in a Conference Final. Adebayo can play hero ball in the zone because he doesn't have to worry about Theis' offense at all. That takes away penetration, and enables the Heat to play more aggressive perimeter defense because they have Adebayo behind them to erase any mistakes.

If Kanter was on the court more, Adebayo would have to defend him, which would open up penetration. Kanter would also enable better ball movement because he could flash to the high post as a passing target to get the ball in the middle of the zone. Then the top of the zone defenders would have to drop back to help, leaving Smart, Brown and Tatum open from 3. A decent inside threat creates more and better 3 point opportunities.

I have lost a lot of respect for Stevens in these playoffs. This is stuff a middle school coach could figure out.

I agree some, and I disagree some. Stevens is not an idiot, whether you have a beef with his lineups or not. Stevens admitted, as did tons of people watching the game, that the Celtics effort was high in the 1st half and low in the 2nd half.

Kanter is a complete nothing on defense, which doesn't scream "need to play me!" but I agree his offense is important and whatever they're doing at C is not working.

 

[gtcam]

Kanter's issue has always been that he doesn't take the regular season seriously, but he shows up to play in the playoffs. He had a great playoffs last year, and he could be helping the Celtics this year, but Stevens is not playing him.

He is a HUGE defensive liability but does have great offensive skills - just plain lazy on D

 

[Rocktheworld]

Too much reliance on youth (Tatum/Brown) and one-way players (practically the whole roster)

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He is a HUGE defensive liability but does have great offensive skills - just plain lazy on D

Kanter is lazy in the regular season. He always has been. He shows up to play at playoff time. Just look at last year. Portland lost their second or third best player, Nurkic, with 8 games left. Kanter stepped in, and they made it to the Conference Finals over very good OKC and Denver teams.

I will admit that Theis is better defensively, but not enough to justify playing 4 on 5 on offense. Adebayo is locking the Celtics down on defense because penetration is so difficult. The Celtics have to make him work on both ends.

Edit: Kanter is also a good offensive rebounder. Offensive rebound shots are the highest percentage shots on the floor.

 

[auror]

Kanter is lazy in the regular season. He always has been. He shows up to play at playoff time. Just look at last year. Portland lost their second or third best player, Nurkic, with 8 games left. Kanter stepped in, and they made it to the Conference Finals over very good OKC and Denver teams.

I will admit that Theis is better defensively, but not enough to justify playing 4 on 5 on offense. Adebayo is locking the Celtics down on defense because penetration is so difficult. The Celtics have to make him work on both ends.

Edit: Kanter is also a good offensive rebounder. Offensive rebound shots are the highest percentage shots on the floor.

Stevens obviously agrees with you in some fashion, which is why he unshelved Kanter for this series. The problem is that neither OKC or Denver last year had the shooters on the wing that this Miami team has. Kanter is going to be alone on an island in PnRs, because you can't help off these shooters at all. He may be able to contend if its Jimmy because Jimmy mainly likes to use strength when driving, but he's going to get torched by Dragic, and he isn't really vertical enough to stop Bam rolling to the hoop.

Theis during the regular season was also a floor spacer in addition to being a versatile and mobile defensive big. He's been struggling shooting in the playoffs, so he's lost some of his value, for sure.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Williams can at least run and jump with Bam. Give him a shot tomorrow

 

[the Q]

Williams can at least run and jump with Bam. Give him a shot tomorrow

he doesn’t space the floor offensively.

but his ceiling is as a capela type. Which has value against a lot of teams. The question is which teams.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Kanter got burned multiple times defending Bam in the pickn'roll, if you want him on the court to counteract BAM you are at best living with 80% BAM lobs vs 60% Kanter shooting. They got bonus minutes and points out of Kanter in the first half, in the 2nd Miami was ready for it and played Kanter off the court with pick n roll where Kanter doesn't have the foot speed to cover outside & lacks both footspeed & tenacity to recover on the big. I agree though that mixing in TimeLord is a possible defensive option, but BAM is way stronger, smarter more experienced and matches Williams athleticism + then you wait & see if Williams kills you with spacing offensively. Theis is the best option but he gets into foul trouble because of all the little sneaky things he does off the ball Theis is whistled for EVERY touch foul on the ball AND often doesn't get calls on offenses (i.e. when he was whacked in the head last night). If Theis gets in foul trouble in any 2 more games the series is likely over.

The biggest problem in both series is sans Hawyard the Celtics have no bench, specifically zero bench scorers which is why they bleed points in the 3rd Q. Wanamaker has been a staunch defender and scored just enough to remain consistently playable. GWilliams has shown some signs but must be limited. One-eighth Ojeleye doesn't cut it, Romeo's cameo is over and as mentioned RWilliams is hit or miss on both ends. I wouldn't be averse to Stevens trying Tremont Waters in the 3rd Q if Hayward isn't available or is the post-injury tenative guy we've seen in the past.

In contrast the Heat played 10 guys last night and all belong out there, maybe Nunn or DJones has an off night but they are 9-10 deep vs the Celtics 6 deep.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Kanter got burned multiple times defending Bam in the pickn'roll, if you want him on the court to counteract BAM you are at best living with 80% BAM lobs vs 60% Kanter shooting. They got bonus minutes and points out of Kanter in the first half, in the 2nd Miami was ready for it and played Kanter off the court with pick n roll where Kanter doesn't have the foot speed to cover outside & lacks both footspeed & tenacity to recover on the big. I agree though that mixing in TimeLord is a possible defensive option, but BAM is way stronger, smarter more experienced and matches Williams athleticism + then you wait & see if Williams kills you with spacing offensively. Theis is the best option but he gets into foul trouble because of all the little sneaky things he does off the ball Theis is whistled for EVERY touch foul on the ball AND often doesn't get calls on offenses (i.e. when he was whacked in the head last night). If Theis gets in foul trouble in any 2 more games the series is likely over.

The biggest problem in both series is sans Hawyard the Celtics have no bench, specifically zero bench scorers which is why they bleed points in the 3rd Q. Wanamaker has been a staunch defender and scored just enough to remain consistently playable. GWilliams has shown some signs but must be limited. One-eighth Ojeleye doesn't cut it, Romeo's cameo is over and as mentioned RWilliams is hit or miss on both ends. I wouldn't be averse to Stevens tryingers in the 3rd Q if Hayward isn't available or is the post-injury tenative guy we've seen in the past.

In contrast the Heat played 10 guys last night and all belong out there, maybe Nunn or DJones has an off night but they are 9-10 deep vs the Celtics 6 deep.

Kanter was not on the floor for most of the Heat's third quarter comeback. The PnR problems are mostly that the Celtic guards are not getting through the screens in time, as Mark Jackson pointed out.

The Heat's perimeter can shoot, but they are not blazing fast. They have to run screens to get open because other than maybe Dragic, they are not quick enough to go by defenders. Butler basically goes through defenders rather than around them. Kanter does not need to help out a lot on defense. Adebayo will be a handful, but it isn't like Theis is locking Bam down either. Kanter is so much better offensively that the Celtics need to make this change.

The Celtics were +7 with Kanter last night. -15 with Theis.

 

[auror]

The other option is Grant Williams. Celtics went small with Williams and just switched everything 1-5 at the end of the game. It actually worked pretty well, but Dragic made a couple prayers and they lost anyways.

 

[gtcam]

This is not that complicated, and it is also not about effort. It is about the stupid lineups the Celtics have on the court. Every coach in the history of basketball was not wrong for playing a Center on occasion. The Celtics got Kanter for the playoffs, so use him in the playoffs.

Stevens almost lost to a star-less Raptors team that had a mediocre offense, and now he has gotten himself down 0-2 to the Heat by playing a 6'8 rebounder and hustler at center against an all-star. I like Theis' heart, but he is not a big time player and should not be starting and playing 30 minutes in a Conference Final. Adebayo can play hero ball in the zone because he doesn't have to worry about Theis' offense at all. That takes away penetration, and enables the Heat to play more aggressive perimeter defense because they have Adebayo behind them to erase any mistakes.

If Kanter was on the court more, Adebayo would have to defend him, which would open up penetration. Kanter would also enable better ball movement because he could flash to the high post as a passing target to get the ball in the middle of the zone. Then the top of the zone defenders would have to drop back to help, leaving Smart, Brown and Tatum open from 3. A decent inside threat creates more and better 3 point opportunities.

I have lost a lot of respect for Stevens in these playoffs. This is stuff a middle school coach could figure out.

Toronto may not have any stars in your mind but I wouldn't say Lowry is stale bread
Every team has bad matchups and Boston doesn't match up with Miami and is a younger less experienced team
The only thing I am not happy with Stevens is that he is letting Tatum try to take over games when the kid has a poor basketball IQ and allows Tatum and Kemba play two man basketball with 3 on lookers at critical times
It is recognized that you don't care for Theis but I think you short sell him plus his offensive game is better than what you portray

 

[Yardigan]

This is not that complicated, and it is also not about effort. It is about the stupid lineups the Celtics have on the court. Every coach in the history of basketball was not wrong for playing a Center on occasion. The Celtics got Kanter for the playoffs, so use him in the playoffs.

Stevens almost lost to a star-less Raptors team that had a mediocre offense, and now he has gotten himself down 0-2 to the Heat by playing a 6'8 rebounder and hustler at center against an all-star. I like Theis' heart, but he is not a big time player and should not be starting and playing 30 minutes in a Conference Final. Adebayo can play hero ball in the zone because he doesn't have to worry about Theis' offense at all. That takes away penetration, and enables the Heat to play more aggressive perimeter defense because they have Adebayo behind them to erase any mistakes.

If Kanter was on the court more, Adebayo would have to defend him, which would open up penetration. Kanter would also enable better ball movement because he could flash to the high post as a passing target to get the ball in the middle of the zone. Then the top of the zone defenders would have to drop back to help, leaving Smart, Brown and Tatum open from 3. A decent inside threat creates more and better 3 point opportunities.

I have lost a lot of respect for Stevens in these playoffs. This is stuff a middle school coach could figure out.

Agree. Would also add that having Hayward would help, too. Too much EastWest stuff going on now with Kemba and Tatum dribbling out the clock and making no decisions. Not bad decisions. No decisions. Seems Hayward would at least help with some NorthSouth action and decision making.

 

[imno1]

Being a (sad) Knicks fan I want to hate this Heat team but they are a gritty bunch.

 

[auror]

Being a (sad) Knicks fan I want to hate this Heat team but they are a gritty bunch.

Yeah they've got a bunch of gym rats. Real students of the game. High basketball IQs. Scrappy and deceptively athletic.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Yeah they've got a bunch of gym rats. Real students of the game. High basketball IQs. Scrappy and deceptively athletic.

I hate having to root against Dragic, dude has always been under-rated and had bad health breaks. I went to Celtics v Heat earlier this year and was extremely impressed with Butler, left thinking he was a superstar very solidly in the top 10 in the league. I was not impressed with Bam (one dimensional, whoops).

 

[Kajik]

Ok so you went to BB game,you liked dragic and butler but didn't like bam,cool.Are you in the 4th grade?great insight thanks.Tell us what you think about happy meals