NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks

[Excalibur]

Would you all take this team over the 08 Big 3 Celtics team too?

I think I would. Much deeper beyond the first 3 guys than 08.

 

[gtcam]

I felt that Holliday was the MVP of this series - his defense, offensive rebounding and his ability to find the open man was indispensable. JB was an offensive weapon all series while he did play some lock down D so I can't say he doesn't deserve it. Tatum had one respectable game, game 5, he is a super talent but he has yet to be the superstar leader and his playoff performances are very uneven. The one thing I did like, for the most part, he didn't resort to hero ball. Not happy with his whining - he stooped down to Luka/LeBron level.
Congrats to the Celtics - well deserved.

 

[BugsyCT]

Congrats to the Celtics. If you're a diehard UConn fan and Celtics fan, you're had a pretty great 2023-24 season. Couldn't ever be much better for one season.

Longtime Knicks fan here but I will always love college hoops much more than the pros, so anytime UConn wins it all everything is gravy the rest of the year anyway.

 

[Matrim55]

Would you all take this team over the 08 Big 3 Celtics team too?

I think the 08 Celtics team are in that 1b group with the Heat & Spurs. This 2024 team is in group 2A.

The difference is, of the six teams we've talked about ('08 & '24 Cs, '01 Lakers, '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '17 Dubs), the '08 Celtics had BY FAR the worst head coach. I think if they had someone as good as Mazzulla -- let alone Pop/Jackson/Spo/Kerr -- they'd have waltzed through the playoffs instead of struggling through.

The other thing when talking about the '08 Cs is KG's knee injury the following season. I firmly believe that if he never gets injured we win three straight, and then we'd be talking about that group in a whole other tier.

Anyway, Zach Lowe as expected with a banger of a retrospective for this 2024 group, which he calls "dominant by any measure."

Lowe: Here's the code the Boston Celtics finally cracked to raise banner No. 18

After a historically dominant season, the mold-breaking 2024 Boston Celtics have entered the pantheon of all-time greats -- and solved a problem that will give them every chance to win it again.

www.espn.com

EDIT: And just for posterity, here's my post-Bulls power rankings:

1: '17 Dubs
2: '01 Lakers
3: '13 Heat
4: '08 Celtics
5: '14 Spurs
6: '24 Celtics
8: '18 Dubs
9: '16 Cavs
10: '07 Spurs

 

[Matrim55]

Congrats to the Celtics. If you're a diehard UConn fan and Celtics fan, you're had a pretty great 2023-24 season. Couldn't ever be much better for one season.

Longtime Knicks fan here but I will always love college hoops much more than the pros, so anytime UConn wins it all everything is gravy the rest of the year anyway.

I told my wife last night that this title is the closest I've felt to what '99 was like. It was almost a decade-long process to get to this mountaintop, and along the way I always had a suspicion that it would never happen. The difference was that heading into the final phase of the championship run, I was supremely confident in '99. On the other hand I wasn't confident about this Celtics team until there were 3 mins left in the 4th quarter last night.

 

[IndyLives]

I’m a massive Celtics fan and I’ve admired your confidence (and correctness) throughout this series but my man you are on CRACK if you think this team is better and more complete than the two KD title teams with the Dubs.

The advanced metrics say otherwise. I think this C's team matches up well with even the KG/Curry teams. All-star talent at ALL starting 5 positions, plus quality depth in Horford and the stretch shooters. Best in the NBA in BOTH offense and defense rankings. I believe the 3rd best season differential in the history of the NBA. Of course, I'm assuming Porzingis is healthy in my statement!

 

[Methalius]

Congrats to the Celtics. If you're a diehard UConn fan and Celtics fan, you're had a pretty great 2023-24 season. Couldn't ever be much better for one season.

Longtime Knicks fan here but I will always love college hoops much more than the pros, so anytime UConn wins it all everything is gravy the rest of the year anyway.

Diehard Celtics fan since the late 70's and a UCONN Alum so I am thrilled with the Basketball universe right now. I'm with you. CBB is so much more entertaining to me as a sport than today's NBA is. I still enjoy it but not like College. Truthfully as a Celtics fan, I thought they were going to find a way to not win the title but 16-3 in the postseason is damn impressive. I think Tatum and Brown have fully exorcised their playoff demons.

 

[temery]

I told my wife last night that this title is the closest I've felt to what '99 was like. It was almost a decade-long process to get to this mountaintop, and along the way I always had a suspicion that it would never happen. The difference was that heading into the final phase of the championship run, I was supremely confident in '99. On the other hand I wasn't confident about this Celtics team until there were 3 mins left in the 4th quarter last night.

Knicks better get their act together. Win games for your coach!

 

[Matrim55]

The advanced metrics say otherwise. I think this C's team matches up well with even the KG/Curry teams. All-star talent at ALL starting 5 positions, plus quality depth in Horford and the stretch shooters. Best in the NBA in BOTH offense and defense rankings. I believe the 3rd best season differential in the history of the NBA. Of course, I'm assuming Porzingis is healthy in my statement!

No they don't. The 2016/17 Dubs had more regular-season wins with a larger margin of victory, then went 16-1 in the playoffs with a record +13.5 margin of victory.

 

[IndyLives]

No they don't. The 2016/17 Dubs had more regular-season wins with a larger margin of victory, then went 16-1 in the playoffs with a record +13.5 margin of victory.

I think this year's C's are a much better defensive team than the 17 Dubs, both at the team level and individual matchups. All 5 C starters are lockdown/plus defenders, who can also drop 20+ a night if they had to. Thats the differentiator in my mind. They have height, athleticism, and skill across the board. If Porzingis is healthy, they probably lose 1 game this playoffs, and many of their regular season losses was when Porzingis (or the starters) were rested. Anyway, interesting discussion to have. Lets see what this C's team does going forward. Hopefully, they stay healthy.

 

[nomar]

Yall okay with your best player having this kind of mindset Cs fans?

A little late on this but I believe Manny said basically the same thing during the 2007 ALCS. Worked out fine both times.

 

[Waquoit]

This is one reason the legal bookies are raking it in.

 

[nomar]

I’m a massive Celtics fan and I’ve admired your confidence (and correctness) throughout this series but my man you are on CRACK if you think this team is better and more complete than the two KD title teams with the Dubs.

Zach Lowe thinks this team was pretty damn dominant. The knock on the Celtics is that they had subpar competition. But their regular season (64-18) and postseason records (16-3) speak for themselves.

I think those would be some good series, this team vs those GSW teams. I don't think you need drugs to think that, either.

 

[tzznandrew]

Would you all take this team over the 08 Big 3 Celtics team too?

I'd put them in the same tier. 08 really struggled in the playoffs.

The 2009 Celtics team would have been the best team, or second best behind 2017 Warriors, post Jordan if it weren't for the Garnett injury. Oh well...

 

[3rdbass]

I loved the 'let's jump as high as we can and do a chest bump' to celebrate between Pritchard and Tatum. Tatum damn near jumped over Pritchard.

Well in defense to Pritchard he jumped very late and after Jason was already in the air when hitting him. He seemed surprised and not sure what to do when Jason jumped. I'm sure if they timed it together it would of looked a little better. Jason also has what 8 inches on Pritchard too.

 

[3rdbass]

I felt that Holliday was the MVP of this series - his defense, offensive rebounding and his ability to find the open man was indispensable. JB was an offensive weapon all series while he did play some lock down D so I can't say he doesn't deserve it. Tatum had one respectable game, game 5, he is a super talent but he has yet to be the superstar leader and his playoff performances are very uneven. The one thing I did like, for the most part, he didn't resort to hero ball. Not happy with his whining - he stooped down to Luka/LeBron level.
Congrats to the Celtics - well deserved.

You mean 2 great games for Tatum. Game 3 he was great too.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Zach Lowe thinks this team was pretty damn dominant. The knock on the Celtics is that they had subpar competition. But their regular season (64-18) and postseason records (16-3) speak for themselves.

I think those would be some good series, this team vs those GSW teams. I don't think you need drugs to think that, either.

That Warriors team probably beats this C’s team in 5.

2013 Heat probably beat them in 6.

I think Spurs-2024 C’s would be the best series of the bunch, competition wise.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think the 08 Celtics team are in that 1b group with the Heat & Spurs. This 2024 team is in group 2A.

The difference is, of the six teams we've talked about ('08 & '24 Cs, '01 Lakers, '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '17 Dubs), the '08 Celtics had BY FAR the worst head coach. I think if they had someone as good as Mazzulla -- let alone Pop/Jackson/Spo/Kerr -- they'd have waltzed through the playoffs instead of struggling through.

The other thing when talking about the '08 Cs is KG's knee injury the following season. I firmly believe that if he never gets injured we win three straight, and then we'd be talking about that group in a whole other tier.

Anyway, Zach Lowe as expected with a banger of a retrospective for this 2024 group, which he calls "dominant by any measure."

Lowe: Here's the code the Boston Celtics finally cracked to raise banner No. 18

After a historically dominant season, the mold-breaking 2024 Boston Celtics have entered the pantheon of all-time greats -- and solved a problem that will give them every chance to win it again.

www.espn.com

EDIT: And just for posterity, here's my post-Bulls power rankings:

1: '17 Dubs
2: '01 Lakers
3: '13 Heat
4: '08 Celtics
5: '14 Spurs
6: '24 Celtics
8: '18 Dubs
9: '16 Cavs
10: '07 Spurs

I think this team is about on par with the 08 team, but it's all relative to style of play and strengths. The analytics hadn't come into vogue yet in 2008. KG was an absolute beast on the defensive end and could score. Piece wasn't as efficient as Tatum or Brown. Could he have been? Maybe, but he didn't move the ball like those guys. Nor did Ray. Rondo was solid, but not as good as Jrue in my opinion. That 2008 team was pretty deep though. Perkins, Posey, Tony Allen, Big Baby.

So my sense is that 2008 was built really well for that era, and this team is built really well for this era. Playing the style of play common in 2008 that team would crush this team, but the reverse is also true. It's why these comparisons are hard.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I think this team is about on par with the 08 team, but it's all relative to style of play and strengths. The analytics hadn't come into vogue yet in 2008. KG was an absolute beast on the defensive end and could score. Piece wasn't as efficient as Tatum or Brown. Could he have been? Maybe, but he didn't move the ball like those guys. Nor did Ray. Rondo was solid, but not as good as Jrue in my opinion. That 2008 team was pretty deep though. Perkins, Posey, Tony Allen, Big Baby.

So my sense is that 2008 was built really well for that era, and this team is built really well for this era. Playing the style of play common in 2008 that team would crush this team, but the reverse is also true. It's why these comparisons are hard.

Tatum was not efficient in the playoffs this year. Not a knock, as I think he mostly played very well, especially in other aspects, but he was pretty darn inefficient.

 

[Matrim55]

Maybe, but he didn't move the ball like those guys. Nor did Ray.

Hard disagree on this. Both Pierce and Ray were better natural playmakers than Tatum, and miles better than Brown.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I think the 08 Celtics team are in that 1b group with the Heat & Spurs. This 2024 team is in group 2A.

The difference is, of the six teams we've talked about ('08 & '24 Cs, '01 Lakers, '13 Heat, '14 Spurs, '17 Dubs), the '08 Celtics had BY FAR the worst head coach. I think if they had someone as good as Mazzulla -- let alone Pop/Jackson/Spo/Kerr -- they'd have waltzed through the playoffs instead of struggling through.

The other thing when talking about the '08 Cs is KG's knee injury the following season. I firmly believe that if he never gets injured we win three straight, and then we'd be talking about that group in a whole other tier.

Anyway, Zach Lowe as expected with a banger of a retrospective for this 2024 group, which he calls "dominant by any measure."

Lowe: Here's the code the Boston Celtics finally cracked to raise banner No. 18

After a historically dominant season, the mold-breaking 2024 Boston Celtics have entered the pantheon of all-time greats -- and solved a problem that will give them every chance to win it again.

www.espn.com

EDIT: And just for posterity, here's my post-Bulls power rankings:

1: '17 Dubs
2: '01 Lakers
3: '13 Heat
4: '08 Celtics
5: '14 Spurs
6: '24 Celtics
8: '18 Dubs
9: '16 Cavs
10: '07 Spurs

I agree with a lot your list. Especially the first half. That ‘08 team and Big 3 group in general was one of the few times I rooted for Boston sports.

Rondo wasn’t Rondo yet but that bench had a lot of firepower to pair with the Big 3. Who is one of the few super teams that actually had complimentary games to each other. They weren’t like the Heat who had to figure out how their games can fit with each other.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Hard disagree on this. Both Pierce and Ray were better natural playmakers than Tatum, and miles better than Brown.

Disagree on that. Pierce was an ok passer and Ray wasn't much better except for a few years in Seattle. Young Tatum and Brown weren't facilitators, but they are now, and it's the main reason the team is so much better, mostly Tatum. Tatum averaged almost 5 assists this year and 6.3 in the playoffs.

I'd rank them Tatum, Ray, Pierce, Brown. A lot of it is roles though. Much of the time, Ray and Pierce were expected to score if they touched the ball at all. It was the true PG era. Ray averaged 2.7 assists in the playoffs in 2008.

 

[UConn990411]

Disagree on that. Pierce was an ok passer and Ray wasn't much better except for a few years in Seattle. Young Tatum and Brown weren't facilitators, but they are now, and it's the main reason the team is so much better, mostly Tatum. Tatum averaged almost 5 assists this year and 6.3 in the playoffs.

I'd rank them Tatum, Ray, Pierce, Brown. A lot of it is roles though. Much of the time, Ray and Pierce were expected to score if they touched the ball at all. It was the true PG era. Ray averaged 2.7 assists in the playoffs in 2008.

I mostly agree with this, but Pierce was a much better playmaker than Ray. Tatum has surpassed them both, though.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I mostly agree with this, but Pierce was a much better playmaker than Ray. Tatum has surpassed them both, though.

Ray had a few years in Seattle where he was at or over 5 assists. But over their careers, yes Pierce was better.