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Natalie's Upside?

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Bottom line you need her as you have foul trouble in the paint and those extra 5 fouls give you a cushion. Sh e also sets some good screens and you want her to stay within herself or anything else could hurt your team.
 
Geesh, tough crowd.

One of Nat's upside that I didn't see mentioned is she is physically big enough to box out tradition front court players. This has value. Remember part of boxing out is making sure that your player can't get the rebound. Natalie is effective at that. She isn't as athletic as Pheesa or Gabby, for sure, but that is an incredibly tough standard. Those two girls' athleticism is just plain freakish.
 
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BroadwayVa said:
If I came across less than civil--and I try to not damn opinions--cuz that's all they are--if I made you think other wise i apologize. You are right we discuss the good games and how great so and so was. That's great. But Natalie seems to be an on going --same and more of the same. Again you are generous in you reply--and again--if i offended accept my apology.
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Your post was perfectly fine and I also see where you are coming from. Absolutely no need to apologize. Go Huskies!:)
 
pacific 44 said:
When Natalie leaves Uconn she will be a decent overseas player and noone will be able to take away the three nat'l championship rings that she will have accumulated by then.
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Didn't she get one during her red shirt year?
 
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JudgeSCR said:
Natalie seems to me like she is thinking the game step by step instead of reacting instinctively. Her footwork can also use work. She spreads her feet
wide and it forces her to have to gather herself before shooting or in order to change direction on defense.

I think the staff should, and probably does, work with her on two or three "automatic" moves, "When you get the ball here you turn left and take a baby hook shot with your right hand." "When you get it here go back up immediately."

Natalie is less "college polished" than many of UConn's recruits. She will have a learning curve this year and next but she will play important minutes and we will need her.
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I like your thoughts. She is good to have around as a backup(she helped in the Texas game), but it is really hard to find another starting five in the country with the speed and offensive skills of the present team. Box out, and run, and score before the other team knows what hit them......I like what the starters are doing.
 
I have been supportive of Butler because we would be in big trouble without her. We have needed her minutes to get through foul trouble, most notably against Baylor and Maryland, and if she was not on the roster the winning streak would be over (even though she has made plenty of blunders, esp. against Maryland). Of course, when she is in there is going to be a drop off from Williams, probably the most athletic forward in WCBB, or Collier, possibly the best forward in WCBB. But the question I think should be asked is where would Geno turn at that point if Butler was not available.

If you were the coaching staff, what would you be working on with her? Hopefully rebounding drill after rebounding drill, to get a "that`s mine" mindset; and drills to get her to stay tall (why does she pretend to be 5'6"?) and go up quicker and stronger on the offensive end from point blank range. She must be getting tired of having shots blocked by players 7" shorter. Maybe increased minutes in January and February will help her play more confidently and aggressively.

Also, does anyone remember her shooting a baby hook shot, ever? I think Megan Culmo mentioned that she could have used one the other day against UCF. If she could develop that, it probably would make a notable difference.

Although I doubt there is a significant upside, the perplexing thing is that when she came from Georgetown, we were getting a player who had averaged 13.9 ppg and 13.3 rpg as a freshman in 2013-2014. She averaged 36.2 minutes per game and fouled out only once. This year, she is averaging 3.7 and 4.6 in 16.8 minutes.

That year, she played 9 games against NCAA tournament teams. Here are her points/rebounds in those games: Depaul, 9/10, 15/13, 8/11; St. Johns, 14/10, 8/14; California, 16/15; Penn State, 12/9; Mich State, 7/12; and Florida, 16/18. Against other decent 20+ win Big East teams, Creighton 24/13, 13/14; Villanova, 19/14, 12/13; and Marquette 12/12, 14/8. These are not teams that are at the level of Baylor, Notre Dame, or Maryland, but it is a decent level of play. And while figures can lie and liars can figure, those are nevertheless some impressive stats.

So, what to make of that? She has shown she can play at a respectable Division I level. Three years later, she has gotten into better shape, has had the benefit of UConn coaching, and has been working on her game. She should be better than she was then. That may be the best argument that there is an upside waiting to burst out. If and when it does, it will be to a thunderous ovation!
 
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I watched the UCF game again today focusing on Butler. Yes she had a few to's and a couple of fumbled rebounds, but while she was in the game she did a very good job of working to deny the entry pass into the post, switching off with teammates on assignments and boxing out while Gabby, Lou & Pheesa hauled in the rebounds. She also had a really nice shot block late in the game where she came across the lane to swat a shot out of bounds. It wasn't quite like Stewie, but I'll take it.

On offense, Nat had 3 nice assists including a very nice post entry to Pheesa and a really pretty feed to Danger for a 3-pt play (role reversal).

In summary, Nat is doing fine. She understands the system and she is becoming more effective within that system. For UConn to win their 12th championship, I can almost guarantee that the Huskies will need Nat to provide some key minutes during the run. I personally believe that she will.
 
Shes like a Robot out there but Nat isnt that bad at all when she gets out there. Its her gathering going up for a lay up or her ability to jump for rebounds is whats stopping her from being a better player. Love how hard she plays and her attitude on and off the court
 
Nat has lead feet that do not move very quickly or jump very high......Geno is so right, his team is too nice and they need to develop a mean streak and that starts with all the post players.........Can you imagine DT at 6'5" with her attitude...........They get exposed on the dribble drives with zero baseline help or nobody wants to knock that person 5 rows into the crowd......Geno is trying to toughen them up before March Madness!!.......Good luck!!
 
CocoHusky said:
Natalie is a RS Junior. Unless we advance the conversation well beyond "upside" we will not realize how much she has already contributed to this year's team. Let's stop obsessing over the things she can't do and appreciate the things she has done.
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A 6'5" post needs to be able to score and execute put-backs. And yes, we are appreciative of what she has already contributed. That said if we want to beat a much improved Baylor team with 4 quality bigs, Butler needs to provide offensive as well as defensive minutes.
 
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BroadwayVa said:
You cannot compare Gabby, Napheesa --realistically-- to Natalie. Size and width and weigh have a tendency to slow "big" girls down. To Natalies credit, she slimmed down a bit. She will never be a 'quick', sure footed player--
She is a thinker--not accustomed to 'reacting'.
Why then does UConn want or need her; Natalie, has good hands, if the passes isnt a bullet--she'll catch it. So that is up to the guard to know who and how to pass to. She is a very good rebounder. At times she has been tentative in her passing but that will work it's way out when she plays with the BiG4 more often. She a very good shooter, usually, from 15 feet into the basket.
The one thing Ms Butler does not need ----MORE CRITiCS---Geno will give her more critiques than she'll ever desire!!

Uconn needs her ---as seen in the MD game--when Collier and or Gabby get into foul trouble or illness--it will never be unplug Napheesa and plug in Natalie--but she will provide decent minutes in the post ---and if she develops the confidence she had at GT--she'll be a huge asset!!
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I agree with most of what you say, but I very strongly disagree about one thing. She has about the worst hands I've ever seen. She routinely drops clean passes and does a great job of getting up for a rebound, only to have it slip through her hands. This has happened time and again this year and i can't remember another player with significant (though limited) minutes being as bad in that respect.
However, I'm somewhat puzzled by it. I don't think this is a problem that necessarily gets better with increased minutes. I think it is something that can be greatly improved by work in the gym, particularly with a partner. There are many exercises with weights, balls, etc. that can help. I would think the staff would be working with her on it.
You're totally right - we need her this year and she has already given some valuable minutes. I'm rooting for her. But I'd love to see this problem fade away.
 
Butler is fine--she doesn't have a ton of upside but I think she can play her role well for Connecticut. I posted this in another thread, but this team has 4 games left that could be competitive: South Carolina, Elite 8, Final Four and Championship. Obviously this is discrediting the AAC games where she'll see more minutes, but for all intensive purposes, there are only 4 games left that could be competitive.

Roster wise, UCONN has a really good starting 5, a streaky freshman point guard and Butler as players who can see meaningful minutes in those game. Butler's role this year has been to spot forwards when they get into foul trouble. In big games, there is no way KLS/Collier/Williams come off the floor unless they get into foul trouble or really need a breather. If they do, then Butler will spot them for the 2-3 minutes they are out and then go back to the bench. While she is in the game, she doesn't have to do anything spectacular--just go for rebounds, block out, plant and set picks, put a body on the opposition's post, etc. She wont be looked at to score or do anything more meaningful. She isn't going to standout when you watch her, but more importantly, she isn't going to hurt Connecticut. If she can have a net zero for the 5 minutes she plays, that's perfect, because when UCONN has their three forwards on the court, the advantage flips to the Huskies.


Next year I'd expect her to have a similar role, but she won't be the only insurance for post players. Canada and Stevens will be in the mix and this could push Butler a little further down the depth chart.

Butler isn't a bad player, but she also isn't a player who is likely to play big minutes for the #1 team. She did a very good job playing for a bottom feeder in a weak conference, but doesn't have the skills and experience to be a regular contributor for a championship caliber team in big games. Same goes for Irwin and Bent. What these players do bring is good work ethic, positive vibes for the team and an unselfish nature. Maybe there's more to her future on the court with UCONN that I'm not seeing, but for what it's worth, that's my 2 cents.
 
bballnut90 said:
Butler is fine--she doesn't have a ton of upside but I think she can play her role well for Connecticut. I posted this in another thread, but this team has 4 games left that could be competitive: South Carolina, Elite 8, Final Four and Championship. Obviously this is discrediting the AAC games where she'll see more minutes, but for all intensive purposes, there are only 4 games left that could be competitive.

Roster wise, UCONN has a really good starting 5, a streaky freshman point guard and Butler as players who can see meaningful minutes in those game. Butler's role this year has been to spot forwards when they get into foul trouble. In big games, there is no way KLS/Collier/Williams come off the floor unless they get into foul trouble or really need a breather. If they do, then Butler will spot them for the 2-3 minutes they are out and then go back to the bench. While she is in the game, she doesn't have to do anything spectacular--just go for rebounds, block out, plant and set picks, put a body on the opposition's post, etc. She wont be looked at to score or do anything more meaningful. She isn't going to standout when you watch her, but more importantly, she isn't going to hurt Connecticut. If she can have a net zero for the 5 minutes she plays, that's perfect, because when UCONN has their three forwards on the court, the advantage flips to the Huskies.


Next year I'd expect her to have a similar role, but she won't be the only insurance for post players. Canada and Stevens will be in the mix and this could push Butler a little further down the depth chart.

Butler isn't a bad player, but she also isn't a player who is likely to play big minutes for the #1 team. She did a very good job playing for a bottom feeder in a weak conference, but doesn't have the skills and experience to be a regular contributor for a championship caliber team in big games. Same goes for Irwin and Bent. What these players do bring is good work ethic, positive vibes for the team and an unselfish nature. Maybe there's more to her future on the court with UCONN that I'm not seeing, but for what it's worth, that's my 2 cents.
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I agree but who is Canada????
 
bballnut90 said:
Butler is fine--she doesn't have a ton of upside but I think she can play her role well for Connecticut. I posted this in another thread, but this team has 4 games left that could be competitive: South Carolina, Elite 8, Final Four and Championship. Obviously this is discrediting the AAC games where she'll see more minutes, but for all intensive purposes, there are only 4 games left that could be competitive.

Roster wise, UCONN has a really good starting 5, a streaky freshman point guard and Butler as players who can see meaningful minutes in those game. Butler's role this year has been to spot forwards when they get into foul trouble. In big games, there is no way KLS/Collier/Williams come off the floor unless they get into foul trouble or really need a breather. If they do, then Butler will spot them for the 2-3 minutes they are out and then go back to the bench. While she is in the game, she doesn't have to do anything spectacular--just go for rebounds, block out, plant and set picks, put a body on the opposition's post, etc. She wont be looked at to score or do anything more meaningful. She isn't going to standout when you watch her, but more importantly, she isn't going to hurt Connecticut. If she can have a net zero for the 5 minutes she plays, that's perfect, because when UCONN has their three forwards on the court, the advantage flips to the Huskies.


Next year I'd expect her to have a similar role, but she won't be the only insurance for post players. Canada and Stevens will be in the mix and this could push Butler a little further down the depth chart.

Butler isn't a bad player, but she also isn't a player who is likely to play big minutes for the #1 team. She did a very good job playing for a bottom feeder in a weak conference, but doesn't have the skills and experience to be a regular contributor for a championship caliber team in big games. Same goes for Irwin and Bent. What these players do bring is good work ethic, positive vibes for the team and an unselfish nature. Maybe there's more to her future on the court with UCONN that I'm not seeing, but for what it's worth, that's my 2 cents.
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Pretty reasonable two cents.
 
bballnut90 said:
Butler is fine--she doesn't have a ton of upside but I think she can play her role well for Connecticut. I posted this in another thread, but this team has 4 games left that could be competitive: South Carolina, Elite 8, Final Four and Championship. Obviously this is discrediting the AAC games where she'll see more minutes, but for all intensive purposes, there are only 4 games left that could be competitive.

Roster wise, UCONN has a really good starting 5, a streaky freshman point guard and Butler as players who can see meaningful minutes in those game. Butler's role this year has been to spot forwards when they get into foul trouble. In big games, there is no way KLS/Collier/Williams come off the floor unless they get into foul trouble or really need a breather. If they do, then Butler will spot them for the 2-3 minutes they are out and then go back to the bench. While she is in the game, she doesn't have to do anything spectacular--just go for rebounds, block out, plant and set picks, put a body on the opposition's post, etc. She wont be looked at to score or do anything more meaningful. She isn't going to standout when you watch her, but more importantly, she isn't going to hurt Connecticut. If she can have a net zero for the 5 minutes she plays, that's perfect, because when UCONN has their three forwards on the court, the advantage flips to the Huskies.


Next year I'd expect her to have a similar role, but she won't be the only insurance for post players. Canada and Stevens will be in the mix and this could push Butler a little further down the depth chart.

Butler isn't a bad player, but she also isn't a player who is likely to play big minutes for the #1 team. She did a very good job playing for a bottom feeder in a weak conference, but doesn't have the skills and experience to be a regular contributor for a championship caliber team in big games. Same goes for Irwin and Bent. What these players do bring is good work ethic, positive vibes for the team and an unselfish nature. Maybe there's more to her future on the court with UCONN that I'm not seeing, but for what it's worth, that's my 2 cents.
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I don't agree with the bold at all. We don't win vs Texas without Butler. We were able to slide Collier and Williams off the center spot and play a bit off the post. Texas was a physical beast. And we needed her more than just 2-3 minutes vs Baylor.
 
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JudgeSCR said:
Natalie seems to me like she is thinking the game step by step instead of reacting instinctively. Her footwork can also use work. She spreads her feet
wide and it forces her to have to gather herself before shooting or in order to change direction on defense.

I think the staff should, and probably does, work with her on two or three "automatic" moves, "When you get the ball here you turn left and take a baby hook shot with your right hand." "When you get it here go back up immediately."

Natalie is less "college polished" than many of UConn's recruits. She will have a learning curve this year and next but she will play important minutes and we will need her.
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Natalie brings the ball down for all to challenge Height advantage gone ! Coordination is limited !
 
Siestakeyfan said:
Natalie brings the ball down for all to challenge Height advantage gone ! Coordination is limited !
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While Nat does struggle at times to initially secure the ball, one of the points I made earlier is just the opposite. If you watch Nat this year vs last, it is clear that she has been coached to hold the ball above her head with both hands where nobody can challenge her. It allows her to see the court, make better passes and essentially play to her 6'5" height.

If we are going to assess a player's game, we should give them credit when they work hard to improve an aspect of their game as Nat has done this year.
 
oldude said:
While Nat does struggle at times to initially secure the ball, one of the points I made earlier is just the opposite. If you watch Nat this year vs last, it is clear that she has been coached to hold the ball above her head with both hands where nobody can challenge her. It allows her to see the court, make better passes and essentially play to her 6'5" height.

If we are going to assess a player's game, we should give them credit when they work hard to improve an aspect of their game as Nat has done this year.
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I think she has improved on defense and rebounding and toughness. Her passing has improved somewhat but can and should improve. Her offense is a definite handicap and is basically limited to unguarded layups. People say she has good touch on the short-mid range jump shot but I dont see it and she has no real post moves which is the most surprising thing to me because I thought that could be improved by hard work.
 
eebmg said:
I think she has improved on defense and rebounding and toughness. Her passing has improved somewhat but can and should improve. Her offense is a definite handicap and is basically limited to unguarded layups. People say she has good touch on the short-mid range jump shot but I dont see it and she has no real post moves which is the most surprising thing to me because I thought that could be improved by hard work.
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Certainly, Nat is a work in progress. As some BY'ers have pointed out, Nat is a good shooter out to 15', but she needs a lot of space and time to get the shot off. I also recall an earlier tv segment where a reporter was interviewing Geno after practice. In the background, Nat was working with one of the assistants, over and over again on her hook shot in the lane. I'd love to see her attempt that shot in the game, but I suspect it's not ready for prime time.
 
mntncougar said:
I agree with most of what you say, but I very strongly disagree about one thing. She has about the worst hands I've ever seen. She routinely drops clean passes and does a great job of getting up for a rebound, only to have it slip through her hands. This has happened time and again this year and i can't remember another player with significant (though limited) minutes being as bad in that respect.
However, I'm somewhat puzzled by it. I don't think this is a problem that necessarily gets better with increased minutes. I think it is something that can be greatly improved by work in the gym, particularly with a partner. There are many exercises with weights, balls, etc. that can help. I would think the staff would be working with her on it.
You're totally right - we need her this year and she has already given some valuable minutes. I'm rooting for her. But I'd love to see this problem fade away.
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Essentially you are correct. But having played a lot of the game--albeit when the ball was square--and viewing what's happening--many of Natalies issues with passes is the passer. Some bigs, like Stewie, could grab a pass 4 feet out of her range --she was ATHELETiC---that word does not describe Natalie. If you put your passes, even bounce passes, some where between her waist and her head--slow them down-she'll handle them. That's the girl WE HAVE--we don't have the model for a perfect center--we have NATALIE. Geno knows all this, he knows her abilities and her limitation--as he does with 11 others on this team. If we expect something different---we'll be moaning about this for the next year or 2.
 
Siestakeyfan said:
Natalie brings the ball down for all to challenge Height advantage gone ! Coordination is limited !
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She knows better and she knows not to dribble before the shot---she knows all this--but as a kid (I ass u Me) she developed habits she can't break--even with Chris and Geno crawling all over her back. She is what she is!!!
 
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Huskee11 said:
I have been supportive of Butler because we would be in big trouble without her. We have needed her minutes to get through foul trouble, most notably against Baylor and Maryland, and if she was not on the roster the winning streak would be over (even though she has made plenty of blunders, esp. against Maryland). Of course, when she is in there is going to be a drop off from Williams, probably the most athletic forward in WCBB, or Collier, possibly the best forward in WCBB. But the question I think should be asked is where would Geno turn at that point if Butler was not available.

If you were the coaching staff, what would you be working on with her? Hopefully rebounding drill after rebounding drill, to get a "that`s mine" mindset; and drills to get her to stay tall (why does she pretend to be 5'6"?) and go up quicker and stronger on the offensive end from point blank range. She must be getting tired of having shots blocked by players 7" shorter. Maybe increased minutes in January and February will help her play more confidently and aggressively.

Also, does anyone remember her shooting a baby hook shot, ever? I think Megan Culmo mentioned that she could have used one the other day against UCF. If she could develop that, it probably would make a notable difference.

Although I doubt there is a significant upside, the perplexing thing is that when she came from Georgetown, we were getting a player who had averaged 13.9 ppg and 13.3 rpg as a freshman in 2013-2014. She averaged 36.2 minutes per game and fouled out only once. This year, she is averaging 3.7 and 4.6 in 16.8 minutes.

That year, she played 9 games against NCAA tournament teams. Here are her points/rebounds in those games: Depaul, 9/10, 15/13, 8/11; St. Johns, 14/10, 8/14; California, 16/15; Penn State, 12/9; Mich State, 7/12; and Florida, 16/18. Against other decent 20+ win Big East teams, Creighton 24/13, 13/14; Villanova, 19/14, 12/13; and Marquette 12/12, 14/8. These are not teams that are at the level of Baylor, Notre Dame, or Maryland, but it is a decent level of play. And while figures can lie and liars can figure, those are nevertheless some impressive stats.

So, what to make of that? She has shown she can play at a respectable Division I level. Three years later, she has gotten into better shape, has had the benefit of UConn coaching, and has been working on her game. She should be better than she was then. That may be the best argument that there is an upside waiting to burst out. If and when it does, it will be to a thunderous ovation!
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The difference between UConn and GT for Natalie ---the UC game is played with speed and lots of end to end running.
The competition is a bit different--apparently enough to make the difference. She did have great numbers---
also--whether the hand injury did physical or mental damage more than we know--we may never know.
 
BroadwayVa said:
The difference between UConn and GT for Natalie ---the UC game is played with speed and lots of end to end running.
The competition is a bit different--apparently enough to make the difference. She did have great numbers---
also--whether the hand injury did physical or mental damage more than we know--we may never know.
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Those numbers would be good even if playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, who appear to run the floor pretty well.....

nuns.jpg


One additional positive about Natalie - when she is in the game, it does give us a big body banging for rebounds. She will occupy space and sometimes get a hand on the ball, keeping it alive. That can be valuable as it gives those incredible opportunists, Williams and Collier, another shot at the ball. Not something that shows up in the box score, but valuable nonetheless.

We are fortunate to have her. I agree that there won`t be many remaining games where it will make a difference in the final result. But in those remaining big games, she could make a huge difference esp. if we have foul trouble. We have had foul trouble in a few big games this year, and she has contributed and helped us win those games.
 
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CocoHusky said:
Natalie is a RS Junior. Unless we advance the conversation well beyond "upside" we will not realize how much she has already contributed to this year's team. Let's stop obsessing over the things she can't do and appreciate the things she has done.
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It reminds me of a line from the classic song "There is nothing like a game:"

"Its a waste of time to worry over plays that they've not run. Be thankful for...... the things they've done"
 
Oldbones said:
It reminds me of a line from the classic song "There is nothing like a game:"

"Its a waste of time to worry over plays that they've not run. Be thankful for. the things they've done"
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Good comments. Suspect after we play through the inter-league schedule, tone of this section will change. No one should have been confused why NB was not at the same level as the All American centers from Baylor, Maryland, etc. She will likely be one of the top 2-3 centers in league play. Look at her current body type and she can outrun any of the centers she will face the next two months. Should provide invaluable minutes to rest starters, tire the competition, and likely be a top performer versus what are typically short teams.
 
Huskee11 said:
Those numbers would be good even if playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, who appear to run the floor pretty well.....

View attachment 18197

One additional positive about Natalie - when she is in the game, it does give us a big body banging for rebounds. She will occupy space and sometimes get a hand on the ball, keeping it alive. That can be valuable as it gives those incredible opportunists, Williams and Collier, another shot at the ball. Not something that shows up in the box score, but valuable nonetheless.

We are fortunate to have her. I agree that there won`t be many remaining games where it will make a difference in the final result. But in those remaining big games, she could make a huge difference esp. if we have foul trouble. We have had foul trouble in a few big games this year, and she has contributed and helped us win those games.
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You are correct--- Few appreciate advantage of having a Big Body in some game--not all--but some. I think her size will work for uconn with USC and Baylor if we should meet them again. While the rest of Natalies learning curve is small--she still is learning---

Thank you for the "we are fortunate to have her" While she did not take over the MD game--her time in the game protected UConn's lead and gave UC the opportunity to rest Gabby and/or Collier . I hope Natalie if she read the By --goes deep enough to read your positing!!!!!

Now the Sisters playing BB--I have seen a few team of late--they'd probably take them. My Aunt and Cousin
were members of an order.--The older one pulled up her sleeves and turned a dirt playyard into black top at a school in london England==she physically raked and rolled the black top--obviously with a group of other Nuns. Then returned to St Joseph University to end her career.
 
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