Napheesa Only Remaining UConn Husky For Wade Trophy

[Wally East]

Here is a spreadsheet analysis of the Wade and Naismith candidates from before the tournament. I used equal weighting score for all categories. Feel free to make up your own weighting for PPG, Blks, Stls and Asst to yield and overall rank.

Using ranks instead of the actual stats isn't great for this, especially with the huge gap between 1 and 2 in points per game.

And, no, neither blocks nor steals are as important as scoring.

 

[LO TRADER]

Using ranks instead of the actual stats isn't great for this, especially with the huge gap between 1 and 2 in points per game.

And, no, neither blocks nor steals are as important as scoring.

Blocks & Steals are only a couple aspects of playing defense. When a player, like Gabby Williams, or, Gabby Hanson, can shut down, or, dramatically impact an offensive player, or players on the opposing team, that is difficult to measure, but obvious. So, I don't know if I disagree with your statement, but I would value defense just as much as offense when looking at the POY.

 

[CocoHusky]

Here is a spreadsheet analysis of the Wade and Naismith candidates from before the tournament. I used equal weighting score for all categories. Feel free to make up your own weighting for PPG, Blks, Stls and Asst to yield and overall rank.

I've been playing around with it and dependent upon the weight and ranking of each category yields different results.
The difficulty lies in how to effectively compare value of a guard to that of a forward or center.

Is scoring the end all be all? Scoring/Assists? Scoring/Blocks? You decide.

Again I equally weighted each category. My reasoning is that equally weight for all 5 categories eliminates a bias towards a particular position.

Have fun [Yes Osahor's numbers are better than Wilson ]

This is a beautiful much to do about nothing. Kelsey Plum will win POY and she deserves it too. UCONN had three tremendous POY candidates & best team. No other team had more than 1 POY candidate. All three UCONN players will get their name on WOH for play this year and have an opportunity to be POY next year or the year after.

 

[Los24]

I'm not following what you mean Los24. "20pts a game difference..." who/what are you comparing to whom?

I was just referring to your comparing Gabby to Plum and asking if this is all about scoring. I was providing that its not just a few points per game difference. The fact that she is also close to 50% 40% 90% (just short in FT%) so she is doing things at a very effective clip also speaks volumes. Two different players, with different skill sets, but Plum is not just a scorer who is scoring a few extra points. The difference in scoring between her and Gabby is the same of another all-america's points (KLS/Pheese.)

 

[Los24]

Blocks & Steals are only a couple aspects of playing defense. When a player, like Gabby Williams, or, Gabby Hanson, can shut down, or, dramatically impact an offensive player, or players on the opposing team, that is difficult to measure, but obvious. So, I don't know if I disagree with your statement, but I would value defense just as much as offense when looking at the POY.

So here are my final thoughts on this topic. Both are great players and are both unique. Gabby impacts the game defensively as good as anyone in the game. Same could be said of Plum on offense. Both are very effective on the other side of the ball too, making them complete players.

However, Plum leads her team in all the areas on her side of the ball and some on the other. Plus she leads the NATION too. Gabby does not lead in rebounds or blocks, two major defensive areas (her strength side.) Nor is she close to leading the nation. You can argue foul trouble early on and easier in conference games that have her out towards end of game. But nationally Lou is in tops range in scoring and 3pt makes. Napheese is tops range in scoring, FG% and leads team on multiple categories for both sides of the ball.

I also think that while we need all our players to win it all, we would still have an outside chance if one of of our starters go down, including Pheese, KLS, Kia and Gabby. If Plum goes down, they have ZERO chance. Also, the opposing teams always make Plum the #1 initiave. While Gabby (or Pheese or KLS) is one of our focal points she cant be the only focus. If anyone gets the most attention totarget to stop. For UConn it is KLS, then Pheese.

Point is that Plum helps her team too by getting most of the attention, thus there are stats for offense that are not showing up on the stat sheet. Lastly, there is the DT (confidence factor.) After seeing and more importantly listening to Plum, she is they leader and inspires confidence in her team to go out and win. I believe Gabby does too, but not to the same degree....

Last comment. If Gabby keeps shooting the way she has in the past couple of games and brings a consistent outside mid-range shot to her game, I would make her my favorite to be POY.

 

[DefenseBB]

I'm completely laughing my head off at all the sour pusses in this thread. LMFAO !!

Sour pusses? In what regards? I think Wilson had a good year and is worthy of AA status. Here's her line: 17.7 PPG; 7.6 reb; 1.419 APG; .758 A/To; .734/.000/.583 slash line.
She just isn't worthy to be in the discussion on POY consideration. When compared to any of the UConn players, she did not perform as well in the head to head competition.

As far as Mitchell goes, she too is a good player who, in my estimation is 2nd team AA consideration. Stats are 22.7 PPG, 3.9 reb, 3.85 APG, 1.59 A/To, .820;.437;.370 slash line.
Again, nice stats but here's Plum's stats- 31.8; 5.1 reb; 4.79 APG; 1.94 A/To; .888/.533/.429 slash.

Honestly case closed for Plum!

 

[donalddoowop]

Remember, we had NO preseason All Americans. Which, to my mind, makes this undefeated season even sweeter. Can't we just be delighted that we have no less than 3 of our own on so many elite lists? And that, in a season which was supposed to be a transition season, we have a national championship within our grasp?

Just think. If Uconn wins it all, the player not included on the list may be this season's MOP. If she keeps playing and scoring as she has in the first two games.

 

[SCspur]

Sour pusses? In what regards? I think Wilson had a good year and is worthy of AA status. Here's her line: 17.7 PPG; 7.6 reb; 1.419 APG; .758 A/To; .734/.000/.583 slash line.
She just isn't worthy to be in the discussion on POY consideration. When compared to any of the UConn players, she did not perform as well in the head to head competition.

As far as Mitchell goes, she too is a good player who, in my estimation is 2nd team AA consideration. Stats are 22.7 PPG, 3.9 reb, 3.85 APG, 1.59 A/To, .820;.437;.370 slash line.
Again, nice stats but here's Plum's stats- 31.8; 5.1 reb; 4.79 APG; 1.94 A/To; .888/.533/.429 slash.

Honestly case closed for Plum!

Well obviously those who choose the POY candidates believes she does so nothing you or anyone else says matters to be because it's YOUR OPIONON and of course that doesn't mean CRAP to me so nice try, maybe next time

 

[DefenseBB]

Well obviously those who choose the POY candidates believes she does so nothing you or anyone else says matters to be because it's YOUR OPIONON and of course that doesn't mean CRAP to me so nice try, maybe next time

Actually, all the conference POY are the pool to select from so the list was trimmed down from those. The whole thread is an opinion Board and it's obviously my opinion. But I didn't stoop to name calling and backed my opinion up with stats. What have you done? Oh yeah- YOU USED THE CAP LOCK FUNCTION to try to make a denigrating point and a "take that" emoji. Ooh my feelings were hurt...NOT! And right back at ya-

 

[hussybulldog]

Yeloj999, can you also add a column for TOs, rank them and weigh it in?

Here is a spreadsheet analysis of the Wade and Naismith candidates from before the tournament. I used equal weighting score for all categories. Feel free to make up your own weighting for PPG, Blks, Stls and Asst to yield and overall rank.

I've been playing around with it and dependent upon the weight and ranking of each category yields different results.
The difficulty lies in how to effectively compare value of a guard to that of a forward or center.

View attachment 21070

Is scoring the end all be all? Scoring/Assists? Scoring/Blocks? You decide.

Again I equally weighted each category. My reasoning is that equally weight for all 5 categories eliminates a bias towards a particular position.

Have fun [Yes Osahor's numbers are better than Wilson ]

 

[YellwJcket999]

Using ranks instead of the actual stats isn't great for this, especially with the huge gap between 1 and 2 in points per game.

And, no, neither blocks nor steals are as important as scoring.

The POY award is for the best all around player in the game. Blocks and steals are just as important. Defense wins championships. Defensive stats also show how players affect the game.

I think that it is very short sighted to merely look at points as the end all metric.

With that said and I have repeatedly said- Plum will win both the Naismith and the Wade.

I don't think that Plum is the best all around player of D1 basketball. Plum is the best scorer.

 

[Wally East]

The POY award is for the best all around player in the game. Blocks and steals are just as important. Defense wins championships. Defensive stats also show how players affect the game.

I think that it is very short sighted to merely look at points as the end all metric.

Maybe but your methodology isn't very good. Totaling rankings, even if you think all five categories carry equal weight, isn't the way to go.

Apart from that, yes, defense is important, obviously. So, if you want to say that one steal = preventing two points, I'm okay-ish with that (although, that would assume that every offensive possession ends in a bucket, which obviously is not true). And if you want to say that a block equals preventing one point (given that (A) not all shots go in and (B) not all blocked shots are recovered by the blocker's team), okay. If you want to say that a rebound equals one point, I'd be fine with that, too.

And, then, if you want to say that assists are equal to two points, because, yeah, obviously then, I'm good with that, too.

So, ppg + rpg + 2*spg + bpg +2*apg. Fair?

Plum is a scorer. She's also a really good passer and an okay defender. Gabby is a better passer, rebounder, and defender. Better enough to make up for the ENORMOUS difference in scoring? No. By this formula (which, admittedly is far from perfect), if plum were scoring in the neighborhood of Katie Lou and Napheesa, then the answer would be, "Well, hmm. Maybe."

If Plum wasn't also a good passer and a decent enough defender, I'd be more willing to say there's an argument to be made that she's not POY. But, she's a good passer and a really great shooter. She's shooting over 50% from the field and over 40% from three. She should be shooting and scoring MORE.

Bottom line: If you want to say that Plum isn't an all-around player because she can't defend, and thus she shouldn't be POY, well, okay, you can do that. But, in that respect, you're going to have accept that Gabby isn't an all-around player and shouldn't be POY because she's not a scorer.

Bottom line bottom line: Plum is POY. KLS, Gabby, and Napheesa will all earn All-American honors but they're still playing games. That's the more important thing in the end.

 

[UcMiami]

Problem is it is not a scientific process capable of being answered by analysis of data so the columns and tables are interesting stats but so limited. Shooting percentages are generally as important as points, number of foul shots (representing fouls on your opponents) assist/TO, and ultimately eye test.
Blocked shots are fun, but the rebound of a blocked shot is usually a 50/50 proposition vs. a steal which is 100% a change of possession so they are not equal. Shut down defense is not really definable as it often does not include either steals or blocks, nor is the opposite of lock down defense, being a swinging gate. Fouls committed can be a huge factor in games and in a players effectiveness. And of course team performance and being 'clutch' whatever that means to each person.

You can use the tables and numbers to justify any decision you end up making by making little adjustments or pointing out 'supporting cast':

On this board and on many lists Uconn has three players under consideration - having two teammates to distract defenses and cover for you when you play defense should make you a more effective and efficient player - Napheesa shoots an incredible percentage partly because Lou is at the three point line demanding attention and Gabby is making perfect passes to her, Lou is effective and efficient partly because Gabby and Napheesa are demanding defensive attention in the lane, and Gabby is effective and efficient because she has Lou at the three point line and Napheesa threatening on cuts and post-ups. Assists are a direct result of the quality of your teammates converting your passes - and Uconn leads the nation in FG percentage.

So ... interesting discussion, but ... pick your favorite and then arrange the data to fit your story!

 

[ricky]

It would not matter if she was the focus of other teams. They could not stop her. If any one player on the team is stopped, there are three to four other players who step up.

Don't be so sure. She may graduate in two years and go hardship. Yes, the rules are going to change. Don't you believe me?

Collier is built for the pro game. She doesn't have much more to prove. She can score from anywhere, rebound anything, block anyones shot, and hussle her butt off. She is much stronger than last year and can take hit. Just look at that build. Maybe the only thing left is to raise her assists but not so important since she does all of this other stuff. She may move on after next year.

 

[tbabe72]

Collier is built for the pro game. She doesn't have much more to prove. She can score from anywhere, rebound anything, block anyones shot, and hussle her butt off. She is much stronger than last year and can take hit. Just look at that build. Maybe the only thing left is to raise her assists but not so important since she does all of this other stuff. She may move on after next year.

I think Napheesa is happy where she is at Uconn and she will be here next year. No big bucks in WNBA. I feel Naphessa will stay and get her degree and play for Uconn all four years.

 

[donalddoowop]

I think Napheesa is happy where she is at Uconn and she will be here next year. No big bucks in WNBA. I feel Naphessa will stay and get her degree and play for Uconn all four years.

I was just messing with Gordy. Collier will stay all four years. The WNBA has rules against coming out early unless a player is in her fourth year in school.

 

[ricky]

I was just messing with Gordy. Collier will stay all four years. The WNBA has rules against coming out early unless a player is in her fourth year in school.

I tend to agree. I mainly refer to potential for which she could be the first pick in the WNBA If the rules were different. But depending on her life situation, for which I know nothing about, could she go oversees? This is just a question of overall world eligibility. I'm guessing there's no age limitation overseas.