My Warde Take

[Chief00]

I am willing to consider the argument that we should ignore the budget landscape - be the outlier - roll the dice - and spend at P5 levels to achieve P5 status.
The companion to that argument is leadership getting us into the P5 - so far they have failed at that while schools that arguable have less attributes make it. Warde walks away not having succeeded at that formula - granted in a support role to the President. However, if they had succeeded that would have been highlighted in the write-ups about what he accomplished at UConn.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I am willing to consider the argument that we should ignore the budget landscape - be the outlier - roll the dice - and spend at P5 levels to achieve P5 status.
The companion to that argument is leadership getting us into the P5 - so far they have failed at that while schools that arguable have less attributes make it. Warde walks away not having succeeded at that formula - granted in a support role to the President. However, if they had succeeded that would have been highlighted in the write-ups about what he accomplished at UConn.

Just go to bed.

 

[Chief00]

Just go to bed.

Kind of early for bed - did not grow up on a farm

 

[J187Money]

I am willing to consider the argument that we should ignore the budget landscape - be the outlier - roll the dice - and spend at P5 levels to achieve P5 status.
The companion to that argument is leadership getting us into the P5 - so far they have failed at that while schools that arguable have less attributes make it. Warde walks away not having succeeded at that formula - granted in a support role to the President. However, if they had succeeded that would have been highlighted in the write-ups about what he accomplished at UConn.

That isn't really my point. My point is that virtually every program in America loses money on an unsubsidized basis, including most P5 schools. Every D2 and D3 school has sports, and none of them make money either. High school sports don't make money (ok maybe football does in Texas). And yet, all of this stuff exists on every level. Each organization makes a determination as to how much pain they are willing to bear, and what the "value" of every athletic and academic program brings to the school.

http://chronicle.com/interactives/n...dec289e45aaa8f12757d89e52c2#id=details_129020

There are also a lot of ways to look at the math. In 2014 UCONN athletics had $71M of revenue, $17M of it was subsidies from the school. $10M from student fees. The student fees don't cost the school anything, and UCONN has record enrollment, so I'm going to pretend for a second that money doesn't matter.

http://www.foundation.uconn.edu/2015/12/08/the-fy15-uconn-foundation-annual-report/

BUT - the school also raised $16.9M through the foundation for athletics, and it doesn't look like any of that money is counted in the "revenues" in the above. So did the school really lose any money on a cash basis?

If you took athletics away, how much money would you have to spend on marketing in order to make the school attractive to students across the country? $5M? $10M? $20M? I have no idea.

What I'm trying to say is that athletics is part of a complex ecosystem and people LOVE to break out sports as a separate entity because it makes for a good read. But that isn't how you would look at it if you "ran" the business of UCONN as a whole. So it is silly to look at it that way if you are standing on the sidelines. Even "for profit" businesses do all sorts of things that aren't profitable in and of themselves for a variety of reasons. People that write these articles have an agenda.

I'm not saying that the finances don't matter - but you can't look at them in a vacuum.

 

[upstater]

BUT - the school also raised $16.9M through the foundation for athletics, and it doesn't look like any of that money is counted in the "revenues" in the above. So did the school really lose any money on a cash basis?

That money should be listed in AD revenues under donations. It is a revenue line.

 

[freescooter]

That isn't really my point. My point is that virtually every program in America loses money on an unsubsidized basis, including most P5 schools. Every D2 and D3 school has sports, and none of them make money either. High school sports don't make money (ok maybe football does in Texas). And yet, all of this stuff exists on every level. Each organization makes a determination as to how much pain they are willing to bear, and what the "value" of every athletic and academic program brings to the school.

http://chronicle.com/interactives/n...dec289e45aaa8f12757d89e52c2#id=details_129020

There are also a lot of ways to look at the math. In 2014 UCONN athletics had $71M of revenue, $17M of it was subsidies from the school. $10M from student fees. The student fees don't cost the school anything, and UCONN has record enrollment, so I'm going to pretend for a second that money doesn't matter.

http://www.foundation.uconn.edu/2015/12/08/the-fy15-uconn-foundation-annual-report/

BUT - the school also raised $16.9M through the foundation for athletics, and it doesn't look like any of that money is counted in the "revenues" in the above. So did the school really lose any money on a cash basis?

If you took athletics away, how much money would you have to spend on marketing in order to make the school attractive to students across the country? $5M? $10M? $20M? I have no idea.

What I'm trying to say is that athletics is part of a complex ecosystem and people LOVE to break out sports as a separate entity because it makes for a good read. But that isn't how you would look at it if you "ran" the business of UCONN as a whole. So it is silly to look at it that way if you are standing on the sidelines. Even "for profit" businesses do all sorts of things that aren't profitable in and of themselves for a variety of reasons. People that write these articles have an agenda.

I'm not saying that the finances don't matter - but you can't look at them in a vacuum.

I have been making this argument for decades now. Athletics are one part of the modern American university's program. The idea that it should make money is very very recent. If that is the standard you'd have 1-2 sports, only for men. Maybe not those. And they'd have a tough time finding opponents.

 

[whaler11]

I certainly see the marketing argument.

I just find kids borrowing money to pay fees which enrich coaches and admins with huge sums a bit... distasteful.

 

[J187Money]

I certainly see the marketing argument.

I just find kids borrowing money to pay fees which enrich coaches and admins with huge sums a bit... distasteful.

Conceptually I'm with you 100%. But to the extent that the Puppetry school loses money - part of your business school tuition goes to subsidize that. So I'm not sure getting upset about this v. that makes any sense. It just might be more visible.

 

[whaler11]

Conceptually I'm with you 100%. But to the extent that the Puppetry school loses money - part of your business school tuition goes to subsidize that. So I'm not sure getting upset about this v. that makes any sense. It just might be more visible.

Nobody in the puppetry school is making 8 figures over their contract.

 

[freescooter]

Whaler
I do think that's a legitimate issue. For that matter the idea that the basketball and football coaches make more than the governor and legislatures combined is ever so slightly weird too. But as to the basic concept I agree with J187money. The UConn orchestra doesn't make any money. The theatre department loses money on its shows. If it had to pay the true costs of its facilities it couldn't do it. Now if you want to argue that a school can do without a $30 million practice gym or something that's available to 20 people I get it. But the idea that sports shouldn't be subsidized by the university I'm not on board with you there.

 

[J187Money]

Nobody in the puppetry school is making 8 figures over their contract.

The only major coach that left here voluntarily (Edsall) left for more money, so hard to argue we are overpaying our coaches. Once we have decided that we are in the game, we need to play by the established rules.

 

[uconnphil2016]

I certainly see the marketing argument.

I just find kids borrowing money to pay fees which enrich coaches and admins with huge sums a bit... distasteful.

As a student, I totally understand and agree but there's nothing we can really do to change the larger structure of college sports as a business and where UConn fits into that picture. There's just no way on God's green earth that we're going to stop pumping money into our athletic dept, regardless of where the money comes from and who has to suffer in order to keep the cash cow grazing. Not sure on the exact numbers, but I think that its somewhere between 3-4K per student over the course of four years, taken from the 'student activity fee.' Kids probably don't make a huge stink about it because when we receive tuition statements, we're charged for very vague things (such as student activity fee) and have no idea what it means or entails. It probably takes a substantial amount of digging to find out exactly what that money funds and where the majority of it goes. Also, losing out on 3 or 4 K pales in comparison to the tens of thousands of dollars kids are screwed out of due to exorbitant interest rates on loans as well as just the larger outrageous cost of tuition to begin with. So, in short, kids probably (1) have bigger fish to fry and (2) are totally confused about where their money is actually going

 

[whaler11]

The only major coach that left here voluntarily (Edsall) left for more money, so hard to argue we are overpaying our coaches. Once we have decided that we are in the game, we need to play by the established rules.

I'm talking about the entire system nothing specific to UConn

 

[whaler11]

Whaler
I do think that's a legitimate issue. For that matter the idea that the basketball and football coaches make more than the governor and legislatures combined is ever so slightly weird too. But as to the basic concept I agree with J187money. The UConn orchestra doesn't make any money. The theatre department loses money on its shows. If it had to pay the true costs of its facilities it couldn't do it. Now if you want to argue that a school can do without a $30 million practice gym or something that's available to 20 people I get it. But the idea that sports shouldn't be subsidized by the university I'm not on board with you there.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be subsidized... but it's a fairly big chunk of money which is being lent to students to pay coaches and adminstrators.

Horse is out of the barn and clearly I don't care that much it's not like I stopped watching.

 

[J187Money]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be subsidized... but it's a fairly big chunk of money which is being lent to students to pay coaches and adminstrators.

Horse is out of the barn and clearly I don't care that much it's not like I stopped watching.

The entire financial model of higher education is fundamentally broken. Athletics, while something shiny to look at are a pimple on the ass of the elephant.

 

[whaler11]

The entire financial model of higher education is fundamentally broken. Athletics, while something shiny to look at are a pimple on the ass of the elephant.

Amen.

 

[J187Money]

I would add this:

I went to Columbia for my MBA. I give them almost nothing. One of the reasons is out of sight / out of mind. If I was on campus for FB/BB games all of the time, there is no question that I would give more money to the school. I can honestly say that money that I give to the Accounting Department at UCONN is directly related to the level of involvement I have with UCONN, which in a large part is centered around athletics.

 

[Kgun7]

I would add this:

I went to Columbia for my MBA. I give them almost nothing. One of the reasons is out of sight / out of mind. If I was on campus for FB/BB games all of the time, there is no question that I would give more money to the school. I can honestly say that money that I give to the Accounting Department at UCONN is directly related to the level of involvement I have with UCONN, which in a large part is centered around athletics.

I agree 100%! I've never given a penny to RIT ... although I was very proud of the frozen four bid! My money ends up at UCONN because I watched Earl Kelly pour in 35 points against Holy Cross at the field house in 1983. And I've been hooked ever since ...

 

[Chief00]

Quite frankly, I haven't had time to really dig into the numbers and peel off the accounting gimmicks that are systematic of CT govt - and I agree some subsidy is not a deal breaker - but the magnitude at first degree is sobering and a red flag that it's not sustainable especially once the one time benefits from BE exit fees are excluded.
While I have seen improvement with AD marketing and a willingness to try new approaches - until I see less empty seats - my praise is restrained - in the business World their compensation would be tied to such metrics.

 

[Chief00]

I agree 100%! I've never given a penny to RIT ... although I was very proud of the frozen four bid! My money ends up at UCONN because I watched Earl Kelly pour in 35 points against Holy Cross at the field house in 1983. And I've been hooked ever since ...

I heard last weekend Earl can actually still play a little for an old guy.

 

[J187Money]

Quite frankly, I haven't had time to really dig into the numbers and peel off the accounting gimmicks that are systematic of CT govt - and I agree some subsidy is not a deal breaker - but the magnitude at first degree is sobering and a red flag that it's not sustainable especially once the one time benefits from BE exit fees are excluded.
While I have seen improvement with AD marketing and a willingness to try new approaches - until I see less empty seats - my praise is restrained - in the business World their compensation would be tied to such metrics.

Let's be clear. I'm not praising Warde. I'm also not blaming him for a situation that he didn't create.

BTW - I don't know what you do for a living but that's a pretty naive assumption as to how he would get measured in the business world. You'd be surprised how comp plans are structured.

 

[junglehusky]

...in the business World their compensation would be tied to such metrics.

Yeah....

Right...

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Since Chief made us all wait overnight with baited breath for his hot take, he's done nothing but back pedal when challenged.

#chiefsbriefs

#11:11