My take on this team

Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,399
Likes
1,849
Another good response! We all see it, why is there no mitigation of an offense that is below average, it is like we accept it. Lately, it is impacting our defense, look at what teams are shooting against us lately!
Coaching is part of the problem, a significant part. With all his experience can't understand why don't see attempts to change things that aren't working (even if the changes fail).
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
94
Likes
233
Coaching is part of the problem, a significant part. With all his experience can't understand why don't see attempts to change things that aren't working (even if the changes fail).
I like Hurley because the #1 function of a coach is to recruit, and he can do that, but to your point, his offense is so predictable, and I'll say it to death. Why are we trying to get shots for guys that shoot in the 30s? That is how our possessions end-all too frequently. It is baffling to me. He openly admits the offense is not there, but what mitigation efforts have taken place to add to it? I have seen none. If this keeps up, kids aren't going to want to play in an offense that is designed as it is, no fast breaks, no leak outs. We had I believe 9 assists on 25 hoops last game. It isn't because we can't pass it is because too many possessions end with a rushed shot off a high ball screen after milking the clock walking the ball up, and weaving, leaving about 10 seconds to find something. When Polley is in the game he gets a high volume of shots (usually). This while we have a guy shooting 46% from out there, and we don't look for him at all. We have a guy in the paint, that has better footwork as a freshman than most seniors that can score off either shoulder and he gets 5 shots a game, 4 out of the offense. It's ridiculous.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,071
Likes
4,325
I think it's actually pretty simple.. Guards. We need better ones. Bouk aside, none of our guards are guys who should be logging big minutes on a top 15-25 team. Cole, Gaff, Adams are not players who can be effective triple threat guys. They are mediocre shooters (36, 36, 32 FG %), ballhandlers, passers, and facilitators.

The bright side part of this is that on paper we are bringing in two very good backcourt guys in 'Sool and Hawkins who I think will see major minutes from day one whether Bouk is here or not. Floyd, again on paper and rep, is also an upgrade over the three above so we will be gradually phasing out some of the lesser talent that carried over from our final AAC days.

We still have to add more talent to go along with the core of Sanogo, Jackson, Akok, the three incoming freshmen, and Martin with a huge emphasis on a guy (or two) who can put the ball in the hoop.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,282
Likes
7,634
Let me just say, my job is NCAA sports and pro sports, I will leave it at that, and I have a lot of the first-hand experience, as well. I'm not an expert, I am an opinion from observation. Let me be clear, this all sounds like a knock against UConn. It isn't. I think Hurley has elevated the talent on the roster significantly. It is still young, green, and growing if you will. I'm a big fan of what Hurley brings to the program. I am not a big fan of the substitution patterns and the lack of adapting to inefficiencies on the offensive end. There is no mitigation efforts, just an apparent acceptance it isn't good. Do you remember the early years of Calhoun teams? We had no shooters, but what he did have is 40 minutes of hell. His teams turned a woeful offense, into turning the opponent over frequently with relentless pressure, and points! We need points, not a weave, a screen, and a prayer. Why are we working so hard to get guys that shoot in the 30s open? We have better options, but they are not part of the offensive game plan at any level of significance that makes a difference.
A voice of sanity. This is on Hurley as much as anybody. He is, dare I say, average to poor in managing the game. it’s plainly obvious, and yes we know what purposeful adjustments look like because we saw them for decades.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
1,411
Likes
2,206
JC would be the first to admit he had an X and O assistant coach by his side most of his coaching career. I don't see that type of coach to assist DH on the offensive end. If JC didn't have the offensive talent on the floor. He would "mask it" with 25-30 minutes of a press to get TO's and easy buckets.

Might not be a bad idea to mix it up a little bit with this team as its constituted. The BET is right around the corner.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
232
Likes
324
This is a team of promise, maybe we want the future to arrive now, so we get frustrated by what we see. It will come. Our biggest problem is we simply don't have shooters. Period! Don't think that Bouknight is the shooter either (he hits 45% from the field and 34% from 3 for his career). He is also nearly 100% unlikely to be here next year. I worry about Akok. Is he Ater Majok? He has by all indications a high ceiling, but sometimes guys with high ceilings never get out of the basement. We don't have that answer yet. I noticed after Gaffney dropped 20 he was suddenly the guy. He may be that guy, but one game says a lot less than the 50 or so that preceded it. Polley is a coach killer. The reason being is that romance with him coming in and getting hot and providing instant offense. Here is the problem with that. He is a 6'9" kid that averages 2 rebounds and a grand total of 5 assists on the season....but the romance he provides that this might be the game he gets hot, I have to play him 20 minutes a game (his average). The problem with that is 4 out of 5 games or 3 out of 4 games, take your pick, he kills you. He kills you because he can't make shots, and does nothing else, so you have 4 contributing players on the court for 20 minutes and one doing absolutely next to nothing. He is the worst type of player to have on a roster. He will be your feast 1 game, and your demise the next 3 or 4. But you have to play him, just in case. No you don't, the statistics say no!

Cole is not a good offensive player. He is what I call a high volume shooter, not a scorer. His offensive efficiency is horrible. 36%/34%. The problem is where do you turn? Gaffney looks more steady as a point guard, but his numbers are terrible. Adams for some reason appears to have regressed, he shoots 30%, that just doesn't earn minutes.

The guys that should be taking the shots, simply aren't getting the ball enough, because as several pointed out here, our offense is so predictable, and ends typically with a high ball screen and roll and a bad shot as the shot clock expires. Martin is a very efficient scorer, he shoots 46.4% from 3, which is variance, but he is our best 3 option and he needs to take more. Sanogo averages 5 shots per game, and 1 of those is typically a put-back. This kid needs set plays sliding back and forth with picks across the lane. Yes, he short arms some shots, but he hits 52.4%. Is that an option that we should ignore? Even if doing so, and his FG percentage dropped to 45%, name one player on the roaster that shoots that? Oh yeah, Martin, the other guy that should be taking many more shots. If you have 4 players in your rotation shooting in the 30s, why are they taking so many shots? We are trying ball screens to get 35% shooters looks. So we go into long painful scoring droughts. We have athletic players, why don't we play fast off a made hoop? Why don't we try leaking out off of a miss? Why don't we attack a press? We have a quick athletic team, but we don't do things to use that.

We are young and at this point, we are missing complete players. We have players that can do some things well, a lot of them, but that is not enough. I'm expecting in 2 years, a lot of these players will be doing more things well. It won't matter if 1 of those things we do well is not shooting well. I don't care how well we do everything else if we can't shoot, the NCAA Tournament won't last long.
Thanks, you have detailed well the general offensive thoughts that hang in our heads.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,071
Likes
4,325
A voice of sanity. This is on Hurley as much as anybody. He is, dare I say, average to poor in managing the game. it’s plainly obvious, and yes we know what purposeful adjustments look like because we saw them for decades.

There is a bit of a misnomer here about our vaunted "40 minutes of hell." It was really one and a half years of that.
The press we so vividly remember causing turnovers and getting layups and everything else was 89-90. We averaged 13 steals and forced 21 turnovers a game. Every year following that was a gradual decline in those numbers and our press became a passive 2-2-1 that was designed to take you out of your offense as opposed to turn you over. Teams shot almost 44% against us in 89-90 because our press was more aggressive. By the mid 90s, when we truly became great with Ray and Donyell, we were putting teams under 40% consistently. Once we had the shotblockers, we stopped pressing all together and just became a balls to the walls man D team.

I guess my point is that we are selling JC short if we say that we just relied on pressing to turn defense into offense. That was one year. His offense, especially in the half court was never pretty, but it put guys who could make plays into a position to make plays. Hurley does not have those guys. Bouk obviously is a triple threat player, but who else is? Martin, maybe. But he is not a guy who you rely on at this juncture to be a primary scoring option. Cole is too small, Jackson is not ready, Polley is one-dimensional, etc.

Simple fact is that we need better players who can run iso stuff like JC relied on for so many years. We knew when getting Hurley that this was a JC-esque guy who would get his players to run through walls. We were not getting an offensive mastermind. His URI teams relied on good guards making plays. We have one guy who can do that and he's missed 1/2 the year.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
1,411
Likes
2,206
There is a bit of a misnomer here about our vaunted "40 minutes of hell." It was really one and a half years of that.
The press we so vividly remember causing turnovers and getting layups and everything else was 89-90. We averaged 13 steals and forced 21 turnovers a game. Every year following that was a gradual decline in those numbers and our press became a passive 2-2-1 that was designed to take you out of your offense as opposed to turn you over. Teams shot almost 44% against us in 89-90 because our press was more aggressive. By the mid 90s, when we truly became great with Ray and Donyell, we were putting teams under 40% consistently. Once we had the shotblockers, we stopped pressing all together and just became a balls to the walls man D team.

I guess my point is that we are selling JC short if we say that we just relied on pressing to turn defense into offense. That was one year. His offense, especially in the half court was never pretty, but it put guys who could make plays into a position to make plays. Hurley does not have those guys. Bouk obviously is a triple threat player, but who else is? Martin, maybe. But he is not a guy who you rely on at this juncture to be a primary scoring option. Cole is too small, Jackson is not ready, Polley is one-dimensional, etc.

Simple fact is that we need better players who can run iso stuff like JC relied on for so many years. We knew when getting Hurley that this was a JC-esque guy who would get his players to run through walls. We were not getting an offensive mastermind. His URI teams relied on good guards making plays. We have one guy who can do that and he's missed 1/2 the year.
Agree with your general points about JC era.He was excellent at adjusting to the rosters he had to play with on the court. Using the press was an example of that but certainly not S.O.P.

As your roster talent grows and provides options you can be less rigid and let the players play. In one of my previous posts on this topic I was suggesting that if we continue to rely on Bouk to provide offense without other teammates involvement--Don't think we're going to advance too far in the Tournament and/or win games.

Vs Nova--It seemed like Jay W originally said in his game plan. Let's let Bouk beat us and we'll defense the other four guys.Then Bouk goes off for 12-14 pts in the first 10 minutes and Jay says.. Maybe we should rethink that! For whatever reason the offense did not include other players in the second half and Bouk became exhausted and frustrated.

Sometimes the press can generate offense when you don't have an abundance of individually talented guys who can break down the defense.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,071
Likes
4,325
Agree with your general points about JC era.He was excellent at adjusting to the rosters he had to play with on the court. Using the press was an example of that but certainly not S.O.P.

As your roster talent grows and provides options you can be less rigid and let the players play. In one of my previous posts on this topic I was suggesting that if we continue to rely on Bouk to provide offense without other teammates involvement--Don't think we're going to advance too far in the Tournament and/or win games.

Vs Nova--It seemed like Jay W originally said in his game plan. Let's let Bouk beat us and we'll defense the other four guys.Then Bouk goes off for 12-14 pts in the first 10 minutes and Jay says.. Maybe we should rethink that! For whatever reason the offense did not include other players in the second half and Bouk became exhausted and frustrated.

Sometimes the press can generate offense when you don't have an abundance of individually talented guys who can break down the defense.

The days of pressing are over, imo. I mean I cannot think of any successful "pressing" teams anymore like the classic Arkansas, Kentucky, UConn, Louisville teams of the past. Most teams have multiple guys on the court who can handle, pass, and make good decisions and a press over a full game is more of a liability than a plus.

I like this team and what Hurley is building. But we are in the big scheme of things not very good yet. Bouk aside, who is a big-time player on this team? Martin is a nice piece. Sanogo and Jackson will be good. Polley, when hot is a weapon but not someone you rely on and I am not a believer in Cole at all. We are a year or two away still but I believe the talent infusion is rapidly arriving. Diggins, Hawkins, and Johnson added to Bouk (maybe), Martin, Jackson, Sanogo, and hopefully a healthy Akok is a nice nucleus. Most of the other guys on this team will see their minutes dissipate as more talent arrives.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Messages
1,411
Likes
2,206
The days of pressing are over, imo. I mean I cannot think of any successful "pressing" teams anymore like the classic Arkansas, Kentucky, UConn, Louisville teams of the past. Most teams have multiple guys on the court who can handle, pass, and make good decisions and a press over a full game is more of a liability than a plus.

I like this team and what Hurley is building. But we are in the big scheme of things not very good yet. Bouk aside, who is a big-time player on this team? Martin is a nice piece. Sanogo and Jackson will be good. Polley, when hot is a weapon but not someone you rely on and I am not a believer in Cole at all. We are a year or two away still but I believe the talent infusion is rapidly arriving. Diggins, Hawkins, and Johnson added to Bouk (maybe), Martin, Jackson, Sanogo, and hopefully a healthy Akok is a nice nucleus. Most of the other guys on this team will see their minutes dissipate as more talent arrives.
WVU/VCU seem to do pretty well with the press but I hear you re:trends.

Just threw it out there as a potential offense generator until the Calvary arrives.
 

StllH8L8ner

Put good out in the world and good will come back.
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
689
Likes
1,365
We have a guy in the paint, that has better footwork as a freshman than most seniors that can score off either shoulder and he gets 5 shots a game, 4 out of the offense. It's ridiculous.
I think it's been said here before but Sanogo should not venture anywhere outside of the paint. If he sets a screen out high above the three point line, rolls to the hoop and gets the ball at the free throw line, it's a disaster waiting to happen. If he gets it few feet from the basket and can do work to get off his baby hook, that's were he should live at all times. His footwork is amazing for a frosh.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
5,029
Likes
10,432
Cole is a Division 2 scorer. He played for a MEAC school for the last couple years. The MEAC is one of the worst conferences in Division 1 and probably should be a Division 2 conference. He is not big enough to beat Big East guards off the dribble. Tyrese Martin is our best all-around scorer (sans Bougknight). He should be a lot more selfish. When I looked back at our 2014 title run, I realize that we didn't score by playing team ball; we scored by letting Napier, Daniels, and Boatright beat people off the dribble. We should be working him like our thoroughbred right now.

As far as Polley, he really hasn't progressed much in his four years. His bright spot is getting hot. Gaffney is better off the dribble than a lot of people realize but he needs to assert himself more.
Nice take on Cole, Einstein.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
3,119
Likes
2,412
I like Hurley because the #1 function of a coach is to recruit, and he can do that, but to your point, his offense is so predictable, and I'll say it to death. Why are we trying to get shots for guys that shoot in the 30s? That is how our possessions end-all too frequently. It is baffling to me. He openly admits the offense is not there, but what mitigation efforts have taken place to add to it? I have seen none. If this keeps up, kids aren't going to want to play in an offense that is designed as it is, no fast breaks, no leak outs. We had I believe 9 assists on 25 hoops last game. It isn't because we can't pass it is because too many possessions end with a rushed shot off a high ball screen after milking the clock walking the ball up, and weaving, leaving about 10 seconds to find something. When Polley is in the game he gets a high volume of shots (usually). This while we have a guy shooting 46% from out there, and we don't look for him at all. We have a guy in the paint, that has better footwork as a freshman than most seniors that can score off either shoulder and he gets 5 shots a game, 4 out of the offense. It's ridiculous.
Prior to the last PC game, the ProJo had UConn with an adjusted 64 possessions a game ranking 337th. Averaged 19.3 seconds off clock before taking a shot. Agree, kids may not want to.play like that.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
23,752
Likes
27,051
Agree, kids may not want to.play like that.
Did you hear that we picked up 3 top recruits before the early signing period? And did you hear that we have another recruit coming in the following year?
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
720
Likes
643
This is a team of promise, maybe we want the future to arrive now, so we get frustrated by what we see. It will come. Our biggest problem is we simply don't have shooters. Period! Don't think that Bouknight is the shooter either (he hits 45% from the field and 34% from 3 for his career). He is also nearly 100% unlikely to be here next year. I worry about Akok. Is he Ater Majok? He has by all indications a high ceiling, but sometimes guys with high ceilings never get out of the basement. We don't have that answer yet. I noticed after Gaffney dropped 20 he was suddenly the guy. He may be that guy, but one game says a lot less than the 50 or so that preceded it. Polley is a coach killer. The reason being is that romance with him coming in and getting hot and providing instant offense. Here is the problem with that. He is a 6'9" kid that averages 2 rebounds and a grand total of 5 assists on the season....but the romance he provides that this might be the game he gets hot, I have to play him 20 minutes a game (his average). The problem with that is 4 out of 5 games or 3 out of 4 games, take your pick, he kills you. He kills you because he can't make shots, and does nothing else, so you have 4 contributing players on the court for 20 minutes and one doing absolutely next to nothing. He is the worst type of player to have on a roster. He will be your feast 1 game, and your demise the next 3 or 4. But you have to play him, just in case. No you don't, the statistics say no!

Cole is not a good offensive player. He is what I call a high volume shooter, not a scorer. His offensive efficiency is horrible. 36%/34%. The problem is where do you turn? Gaffney looks more steady as a point guard, but his numbers are terrible. Adams for some reason appears to have regressed, he shoots 30%, that just doesn't earn minutes.

The guys that should be taking the shots, simply aren't getting the ball enough, because as several pointed out here, our offense is so predictable, and ends typically with a high ball screen and roll and a bad shot as the shot clock expires. Martin is a very efficient scorer, he shoots 46.4% from 3, which is variance, but he is our best 3 option and he needs to take more. Sanogo averages 5 shots per game, and 1 of those is typically a put-back. This kid needs set plays sliding back and forth with picks across the lane. Yes, he short arms some shots, but he hits 52.4%. Is that an option that we should ignore? Even if doing so, and his FG percentage dropped to 45%, name one player on the roaster that shoots that? Oh yeah, Martin, the other guy that should be taking many more shots. If you have 4 players in your rotation shooting in the 30s, why are they taking so many shots? We are trying ball screens to get 35% shooters looks. So we go into long painful scoring droughts. We have athletic players, why don't we play fast off a made hoop? Why don't we try leaking out off of a miss? Why don't we attack a press? We have a quick athletic team, but we don't do things to use that.

We are young and at this point, we are missing complete players. We have players that can do some things well, a lot of them, but that is not enough. I'm expecting in 2 years, a lot of these players will be doing more things well. It won't matter if 1 of those things we do well is not shooting well. I don't care how well we do everything else if we can't shoot, the NCAA Tournament won't last long.
“Cole is not a good offensive player”.

I can’t take anything you say seriously if you’re telling me Cole isn’t good offensively. He’s been the best player/scorer, the past two games. He’s been compared to James Harden by the color commentator. Cole is an outstanding offensive player.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
6,282
Likes
7,634
“Cole is not a good offensive player”.

I can’t take anything you say seriously if you’re telling me Cole isn’t good offensively. He’s been the best player/scorer, the past two games. He’s been compared to James Harden by the color commentator. Cole is an outstanding offensive player.
We have a lot of talent. Not perfect, but a lot. I don’t buy Danny just needs better players. Every coach needs better players always. What we need is better management and utilization beyond “Bouk go score”. Martin and Cole can score. Polley can make 3s if he gets his spot. AJ can pass like nobody’s business. Whaley is solid. Sonogo and Carlton are serviceable. We have talent.
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
720
Likes
643
We have a lot of talent. Not perfect, but a lot. I don’t buy Danny just needs better players. Every coach needs better players always. What we need is better management and utilization beyond “Bouk go score”. Martin and Cole can score. Polley can make 3s if he gets his spot. AJ can pass like nobody’s business. Whaley is solid. Sonogo and Carlton are serviceable. We have talent.
Hurley was clearly mad at Cole when he put him on the bench. Whether Cole was lacking confidence or didn’t think he could be the one to lead this team. I do not know. Cole is no longer lacking confidence and he is playing like a leader.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
3,131
Likes
3,263
Dance Too Long Didnt Read GIF by Francisco Negrello
It continuously blows me away how people...It is almost like they take pride in not reading like it is a badge of honor or something. Even when it is something they are naturally interested in. I don't get it. The post was well written on spot on in many ways.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
1,411
Likes
3,230
It continuously blows me away how people...It is almost like they take pride in not reading like it is a badge of honor or something. Even when it is something they are naturally interested in. I don't get it. The post was well written on spot on in many ways.
It's more a reflection on my poor attention span. I see a huge block of type and just lose interest. It's even worse when people don't use paragraphs. Totally my bad. Wasn't dissing the post, mostly dissing myself...and also I liked the GIF, being a husky and all.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
23,752
Likes
27,051
Hurley was clearly mad at Cole when he put him on the bench. Whether Cole was lacking confidence or didn’t think he could be the one to lead this team. I do not know. Cole is no longer lacking confidence and he is playing like a leader.
The Bob Hurley Sr. article posted today has some good insights in to RJ's game this year.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,333
Likes
36,672
This has been a very challenging season to get a team to find the best way to play together to get the most out of their individual talents. Three players have missed a significant portion of the season, including our star, we’ve had significant breaks from practicing at least three times and more games than that cancelled.

We’re at the equivalent of early January in terms of developing a team. It would be more fair to not ask why we’re not further along, and instead hope that over the next few games we start taking major steps forward, because the potential to do that is faIr. And, frankly, from the moment we took the court at Xavier, this team has played much better and more consistently than it had up to that point.

There is still low hanging fruit to pick. Players and coaches have to figure out how to handle Action Jackson’s unusual skill set, and it’s time to decide if Akok is in or out of the rotation (albeit if in for only 4 to 8 minutes a game) the rest of the game.
 

nelsonmuntz

Point Center
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
39,393
Likes
36,333
I like Hurley because the #1 function of a coach is to recruit, and he can do that, but to your point, his offense is so predictable, and I'll say it to death. Why are we trying to get shots for guys that shoot in the 30s? That is how our possessions end-all too frequently. It is baffling to me. He openly admits the offense is not there, but what mitigation efforts have taken place to add to it? I have seen none. If this keeps up, kids aren't going to want to play in an offense that is designed as it is, no fast breaks, no leak outs. We had I believe 9 assists on 25 hoops last game. It isn't because we can't pass it is because too many possessions end with a rushed shot off a high ball screen after milking the clock walking the ball up, and weaving, leaving about 10 seconds to find something. When Polley is in the game he gets a high volume of shots (usually). This while we have a guy shooting 46% from out there, and we don't look for him at all. We have a guy in the paint, that has better footwork as a freshman than most seniors that can score off either shoulder and he gets 5 shots a game, 4 out of the offense. It's ridiculous.

Good points. You are bringing your A game this thread. Ignore the chihuahuas that are yipping at you.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
159,679
Messages
3,804,804
Members
8,466
Latest member
Zarathustra

Top Bottom