Mulkey bests Geno

[bballnut90]

Good point. Good coach, but perhaps we should prorate the wins. For example, wins against teams ranked 300+ only count as half a win.

Then you should prorate Geno's wins compared to Pat's or inflate Pat's wins. The SEC was the premier conference in the 90s and much of the 2000s and Pat always had the #1 SOS in the country. Or reduce Berube's wins since theyve been D2. Bet you dont like that answer though because it doesnt work like that. Wins are wins.

Also, the Big 12 was a good conference in the 00s and turn of the decade. Only the last 7-8 years (roughly as long as the AAC has existed) has the conference been bad. Oklahoma, A&M, and Texas have all had Final Four teams and Iowa State has been a solid program many years too. Kim won her first title without any HS AAs and didnt catch fire with recruiting until Griner/Sims, almost 10 years after taking over the program.

At the end of the day, Kim has been an elite coach and this is a remarkable milestone that deserves comparison to the best of the best. Kim handled the milestone with complete class, giving all credit to her players and coaches. Big congrats to her on this accomplishment.

 

[VAUConnFan]

How many championships did Baylor win with Brittney Griner and Kalani Brown? They won 1 each. That's underachieving. All-time the series is 4-4.

As would winning just one title between 1994-1999 with Lobo, Walters, Rizzotti, Sales, Ralph, Abrosimova if I believed that teams not winning in a one and done format is underachieving.
It would be patently unfair to put Ms Brown in the same category of dominance as Ms Griner.
Despite individual greatness within a given player, basketball is still a team game.

 

[Carnac]

Congratulations to her. She's a excellent recruiter and a fine coach. She's a worthy competitor to our Coach Geno.

Like Notre Dame (most of the time) Louisville, Maryland, South Carolina and Baylor can be depended upon to give UConn one of the best challenges of the season. Anytime Baylor (like UConn) is on your schedule, it is usually circled.

 

[Zanzman]

I have no problem with congratulating a great coach for achieving a milestone. But when the Baylor SID puts out a press release highlighting names like Rupp, Auriemma & Summitt, it absolutely invites comparisons, whether or not they are actually warranted.

The Baylor SID could have simply issued a congratulatory press release on Kim’s achievement of 600 coaching wins, without the comparison to either current great coaches or legendary coaches from another era, including both MBB & WBB. That would have been classier and far more appropriate.

The people that know Know

 

[hussybulldog]

Geno started with a way lesser-achieving team than Kim did.

After three seasons at UConn, Auriemma/Dailey had won 43 games.
After three seasons at Baylor, Mulkey had won 72 games.
The difference is 29 games. So, since each of their first three seasons, Kim is 13 games behind Geno/Chris.

Baylor DID stink up the place in 1999-2000, the year before Kim arrived, going 7-20. But Baylor had winning records in the three preceding seasons.

UConn, on the other hand, had losing records - never winning more than nine games - for the four years prior to Geno's (and Chris's) arrival in 1985-1986. Further, UConn only had ONE winning season, 16-14 in 1980-1981, prior to the Geno/Chris era.

Also, Baylor was a prominent feature on the national college sports scene in several sports prior to Kim's first year. And since. That had to help her recruiting efforts.

UConn, however, wasn't a blip on the national college sports radar screen before Auriemma/Dailey in any sport, and they started recruiting from Ground Zero, so to speak.

Neither Baylor nor UConn had ever played in the NCAA Tournament prior to Mulkey's arrival at Baylor or Auriemma's/Dailey's arrival at UConn.

Baylor went 21-9 in Kim's first year and made the NCAA Tournament (first round loss).
UConn had a (the only) losing record at 12-15 in Geno's/Chris's first year and didn't make the NCAA Tournament until their fourth year when UConn went 24-9 in 1988-1989 (first round loss).

I have great respect for Kim Mulkey's coaching and recruiting ability, but the fact that she made it to 600 victories 16 games faster than Geno/Chris is a more a product of the condition of their respective programs at the onset of their tenures than an indication of comparative coaching competence.

So what? A win is a win. One may say Geno has had more No. 1 player out of high schools ..so is he supposed to win more games? Shall we discount his winning number ?

 

[domerduck]

you know it's not where you start, it's where you finish..................

I'd say she started pretty good with 2 National Championships as a player going 130-6 as well as won three Gold medals for the US team during those 4 college years. She then went 430-68 as an assistent at La Tech. So she's won 1160 games in college women's basketball and she's only 57.

 

[VidNick]

She is not only a great coach, but I think she has gotten better as the years have gone on. Very impressive in last year's final four. One of the three best of the perennial great programs, the others being Geno and Muffet.

 

[mbr33ct]

I don't think anyone is "comparing" Kim to Geno, as you just can't. If you had listened to Kim talk about her "600th" win, you would have heard her say that all the credit goes to her coaches that have been with her for a long time, and the players. Whether you like her or not, she is a good coach and milestones like this are good for Women's Basketball!

Indeed credit needs to be given to the coaches that put together the OOC schedules (can't help myself). Congrats Kim, we love you, keep tossing them jackets.

 

[Charliebball]

I'd say she started pretty good with 2 National Championships as a player going 130-6 as well as won three Gold medals for the US team during those 4 college years. She then went 430-68 as an assistent at La Tech. So she's won 1160 games in college women's basketball and she's only 57.

I think we're talking about her record as a head coach right? I'm certainly not disparaging her career although I've heard others say a few of her best teams have under performed over the years................it's those last 400+ wins and nine championships that's going to be the tough part................

 

[BostonBay]

By far, last year, and the Championship game in particular, was her brightest moment. After losing Cox for the 4th quarter, her team could have easily folded against a senior-led ND team. She coached & willed them to victory.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Then you should prorate Geno's wins compared to Pat's or inflate Pat's wins. The SEC was the premier conference in the 90s and much of the 2000s and Pat always had the #1 SOS in the country. Or reduce Berube's wins since theyve been D2. Bet you dont like that answer though because it doesnt work like that. Wins are wins.

Also, the Big 12 was a good conference in the 00s and turn of the decade. Only the last 7-8 years (roughly as long as the AAC has existed) has the conference been bad. Oklahoma, A&M, and Texas have all had Final Four teams and Iowa State has been a solid program many years too. Kim won her first title without any HS AAs and didnt catch fire with recruiting until Griner/Sims, almost 10 years after taking over the program.

At the end of the day, Kim has been an elite coach and this is a remarkable milestone that deserves comparison to the best of the best. Kim handled the milestone with complete class, giving all credit to her players and coaches. Big congrats to her on this accomplishment.

You miss the point of my largely tongue in cheek post. Yes, strength of schedule can vary based on a number of factors - conference, schedule, luck. As for Berube, I did comment on the difference between her DIII (not DII) wins and her DI wins. As for conferences, I think you under value how tough the former Big East was (Notre Dame, Rutgers, Louisville, etc.) My comment wasn't about strength of schedule or conferences per se, but a somewhat humorous observation about Kim's well known and documented habit of scheduling teams far, far below what a top program should be playing. Not lesser teams, but teams that literally don't belong on the floor with Baylor.

Finally, I noted that Kim was a good coach. So please step away from the window and the kitchen knives.

 

[Charliebball]

As would winning just one title between 1994-1999 with Lobo, Walters, Rizzotti, Sales, Ralph, Abrosimova if I believed that teams not winning in a one and done format is underachieving.
It would be patently unfair to put Ms Brown in the same category of dominance as Ms Griner.
Despite individual greatness within a given player, basketball is still a team game.

I don't know...............put Brown on the past few UConn teams and I think they win championships........

 

[bballnut90]

You miss the point of my largely tongue in cheek post. Yes, strength of schedule can vary based on a number of factors - conference, schedule, luck. As for Berube, I did comment on the difference between her DIII (not DII) wins and her DI wins. As for conferences, I think you under value how tough the former Big East was (Notre Dame, Rutgers, Louisville, etc.) My comment wasn't about strength of schedule or conferences per se, but a somewhat humorous observation about Kim's well known and documented habit of scheduling teams far, far below what a top program should be playing. Not lesser teams, but teams that literally don't belong on the floor with Baylor.

Finally, I noted that Kim was a good coach. So please step away from the window and the kitchen knives.

Got it. Hard to tell which posts on here are tongue in cheek vs. coming up with reasons she was quicker than Geno to 600.

 

[Steelerone]

I remember watching her as the point guard when Leon Barmore won two championships. I guarantee you that Geno would have recruited her as heavily as he did Diana.

 

[domerduck]

I think we're talking about her record as a head coach right? I'm certainly not disparaging her career although I've heard others say a few of her best teams have under performed over the years................it's those last 400+ wins and nine championships that's going to be the tough part................

I still give her credit for contributing to 3 other National championship and 11 final fours which she did at La Tech, much like Chris Dailey gets credit for her 11 NCs and 19 Final 4's, all as an assistant. Kim was instrumental at La Tech and much like Chris, that should noit be ignored. Geno doesn't win all that without Chris and Sonja and Leon needed Kim for La Tech's greatness.. La Tech's last Final 4 was Kim's last year there. It has been good for UConn has stayed with Geno all those years.

 

[domerduck]

I remember watching her as the point guard when Leon Barmore won two championships. I guarantee you that Geno would have recruited her as heavily as he did Diana.

Sonja Hogg was the head Coach for Kim's 2 NCs as a player. Leon took over in 86. Prior to that he was Sonja's top assistant.

 

[domerduck]

She is not only a great coach, but I think she has gotten better as the years have gone on. Very impressive in last year's final four. One of the three best of the perennial great programs, the others being Geno and Muffet.

I'd add Tara to your list since she also has 2 NC's and is 2nd to Geno in Final 4's (12). Still Kim is 8 or 9 years younger than those other 3, so that is truly an advantage as those programs continue with those coaches.

 

[DefenseBB]

Finally, some graciousness and thought out discussions! Thank you, thank you and thank you. Why can't we have a pool of 3, 4, 5 or 6 truly great coaches? Remember, when people use you as the standard bearer, that's a good thing!

 

[VidNick]

I'd add Tara to your list since she also has 2 NC's and is 2nd to Geno in Final 4's (12). Still Kim is 8 or 9 years younger than those other 3, so that is truly an advantage as those programs continue with those coaches.

Yes, I forgot about Tara.

 

[ABCDFE]

Geno started with a way lesser-achieving team than Kim did.

After three seasons at UConn, Auriemma/Dailey had won 43 of 82 games.
After three seasons at Baylor, Mulkey had won 72 of 98 games.s
Kim had a BIG HEAD START!
The difference is 29 games. So, since each of their first three seasons, Kim is 13 games won BEHIND Geno/Chris.

Baylor DID stink up the place in 1999-2000, the year before Kim arrived, going 7-20. But Baylor had winning records in the three preceding seasons.

UConn, on the other hand, had losing records - never winning more than nine games - for the four years prior to Geno's (and Chris's) arrival in 1985-1986. Further, UConn only had ONE winning season ever, 16-14 in 1980-1981, prior to the Geno/Chris era.

Also, Baylor was a prominent feature on the national college sports scene in several sports prior to Kim's first year. And since. That had to help her recruiting efforts, along with the fame she carried from her illustrious playing/coaching career at Louisiana Tech, including one national championship.

UConn, however, wasn't a blip on the national college sports radar screen before Auriemma/Dailey in any sport, both Geno and Chris were national no-names, so they started recruiting from Ground Zero, so to speak.

Neither Baylor nor UConn had ever played in the NCAA Tournament prior to Mulkey's arrival at Baylor or Auriemma's/Dailey's arrival at UConn.

Baylor went 21-9 in Kim's first year and made the NCAA Tournament (first round loss).
UConn had a (the only) losing record at 12-15 in Geno's/Chris's first year and didn't make the NCAA Tournament until their fourth year when UConn went 24-9 in 1988-1989 (first round loss).

I have great respect for Kim Mulkey's coaching and recruiting ability, but the fact that she made it to 600 victories 16 games faster than Geno/Chris is a more a product of the condition of their respective programs at the onset of their tenures than an indication of comparative coaching competence.

Absolutely agree. Can't compare coaching records without comparing the programs and when they took it over. UCONN mens and womens was built from nothing to being at the top. Probably only school that can say that about the mens and womens basketball teams and how the program was built from scratch.

 

[BostonBay]

With several coaches with many, many wins, high win %, etc., the only way to really separate the GOAT from the top coaches is by National Championships. Thats why Belichick and Geno are considered the GOATs of their respective sports.

 

[UConnCat]

Absolutely agree. Can't compare coaching records without comparing the programs and when they took it over. UCONN mens and womens was built from nothing to being at the top. Probably only school that can say that about the mens and womens basketball teams and how the program was built from scratch.

Very true. What Jim Calhoun and Geno Auriemma accomplished in men’s and women’s basketball at UConn — a former Yankee Conference school — is unmatched in the history of Division 1 college sports.

 

[Zanzman]

But yet Calhoun gets no national attention as one of the top coaches in the game when his career ended

 

[JonathanXIV]

Calhoun is in the Basketball HOF. I think that qualifies as national attention.