Mulkey bests Geno

[diggerfoot]

Congratulations Coach Mulkey -- no qualification from me. Got to 600 before Coach Auriemma even though he had the benefit of superior players (could anyone honestly disagree with that?).

For the first few hundred games, yes, your statement is false. Auriemma recruited regionally for the first decade, from a conference that was not great at the time, in a program that was dismal. Meanwhile in her first ten years Mulkey recruited from a larger region and deeper pool, into a conference that was more highly regarded at the time than the Big East in the late eighties/early nineties. Of UConn's first three player of the years two of them were not highly ranked recruits from the New England area; he developed them into the POYs they became.

After Auriemma won his first championship in 1995 he recruited nationally. I don't know how many years it took Mulkey to recruit from a national pool, but I'll guess it was much sooner. Griner was within her first ten years, correct? That beats Auriemma's prize catch in his first ten years. Auriemma's first highly touted class, TASSK, was recruited in 1999, thirteen years into his tenure. So for thirteen years Mulkey drew from a better recruiting pool.

Consider that Auriemma still has a higher win percentage than Mulkey. That means his win percentage is greater now that he always has top talent than when he started, recruiting regionally to a dismal program in a little regarded conference. Even with the head start she had with a deeper recruiting pool, we will see if she ever catches up to Auriemma's win percentage. It's highly unlikely she will catch up with championships ... or perfect seasons.

 

[wbball novice]

For the first few hundred games, yes, your statement is false. Auriemma recruited regionally for the first decade, from a conference that was not great at the time, in a program that was dismal. Meanwhile in her first ten years Mulkey recruited from a larger region and deeper pool, into a conference that was more highly regarded at the time than the Big East in the late eighties/early nineties. Of UConn's first three player of the years two of them were not highly ranked recruits from the New England area; he developed them into the POYs they became.

After Auriemma won his first championship in 1995 he recruited nationally. I don't know how many years it took Mulkey to recruit from a national pool, but I'll guess it was much sooner. Griner was within her first ten years, correct? That beats Auriemma's prize catch in his first ten years. Auriemma's first highly touted class, TASSK, was recruited in 1999, thirteen years into his tenure. So for thirteen years Mulkey drew from a better recruiting pool.

Consider that Auriemma still has a higher win percentage than Mulkey. That means his win percentage is greater now that he always has top talent than when he started, recruiting regionally to a dismal program in a little regarded conference. Even with the head start she had with a deeper recruiting pool, we will see if she ever catches up to Auriemma's win percentage. It's highly unlikely she will catch up with championships ... or perfect seasons.

Agree, but I was thinking that considering Geno's 600 wins vs Kim's 600 wins, overall, UConn has had better players. Arguably his greatest achievement was transforming a limited regional power into a national, and then an international one, but it was teams made up of those top tier players that were most involved in the march to 600, I would imagine. As a UConn fan, I've always assumed that, for most of the years when UConn became #1, the top UConn players had more talent and basketball skills than their rivals. I don't think Geno would disagree there.

 

[diggerfoot]

Agree, but I was thinking that considering Geno's 600 wins vs Kim's 600 wins, overall, UConn has had better players. Arguably his greatest achievement was transforming a limited regional power into a national, and then an international one, but it was teams made up of those top tier players that were most involved in the march to 600, I would imagine. As a UConn fan, I've always assumed that, for most of the years when UConn became #1, the top UConn players had more talent and basketball skills than their rivals. I don't think Geno would disagree there.

For the climb to 1,000, if you break the wins into 100 increments, Auriemma has had top talent for a majority of those increments. However, we are not talking about the climb to 1,000, but their respective climbs to 600. For half of those increments Auriemma's recruiting pool was not as good as Mulkey's, for a third of them no where near as good, for the second half it was better, though the last 1 or 2 increments Mulkey's was nearly as good. Honestly, I suspect that overall Mulkey's recruited talent, certainly her recruiting pool, averages out better for the first 600, but for the sake of argument I'm willing to call it a wash. In Auriemma's climb to 600 his talent does not average out better for those six increments. If Mulkey continues to recruit the way she has recently her climb to 1,000 may prove as star studded as Auriemma's as well, maybe not. We will just have to see.

Perhaps we are talking about different things. I am talking about recruited talent, not developed talent. Rizzotti and Wolters ended up being the best players in the country, fitting your claim of more talent and basketball skills than their rivals, but coming out of high school in Connecticut and Massachusetts they were not highly coveted players, Auriemma developed them as such.

 

[chrissaran]

Congratulations Coach Mulkey -- no qualification from me. Got to 600 before Coach Auriemma even though he had the benefit of superior players (could anyone honestly disagree with that?).

There are lots of teams with great players. That does not make them a great team. How about North Carolina and Ohio St. to name two. most of those players from NC went elsewhere, while Ohio St. was loaded and underachieved.

 

[hoophuskee]

Agree, but I was thinking that considering Geno's 600 wins vs Kim's 600 wins, overall, UConn has had better players. Arguably his greatest achievement was transforming a limited regional power into a national, and then an international one, but it was teams made up of those top tier players that were most involved in the march to 600, I would imagine. As a UConn fan, I've always assumed that, for most of the years when UConn became #1, the top UConn players had more talent and basketball skills than their rivals. I don't think Geno would disagree there.

Do you recall when UCONN played Stanford in 1995 Final Four? Tara V was asked about UCONN's super-recruit freshman Nykesha Sales and she said something to the effect that she has 5 "Nykesha Sales." We cna take a meaning from that, right? UCONN was hardly recruiting juggernaut back then. And Geno's run to the final four with Kerry Bascom as the lead- how super were they recruiting / having talent back then? During those years through that 1st championship year - only Lobo and then Sales as a frosh were huge recruits - and then several years later they got Ralph and Paige And Hansmeyer was he getting the A/A recruits. The other players were

In addition when UCONN started ot get the A/A recruits more than juts 1 occasionally - for a time they played Tennessee twice then they would play them once. Add ot that Rutgers - RU was very good- they lost in finals 1 year, got to a final four in another, got to an E8 in 3 others. Texas A&M is about that. And Oklahoma was successful- but no way have they been Notre Dame. Notre Dame for all these years is far superior to anything Kim has had faced. And UConn has played Stanford 18 times to Baylor's 6. UCONN is 11-7 vs Stanford overall as an example. But before the 95 season UCONN was 0-3 with Geno vs Stanford. Anyhow, UCONN has played Stanford 18 times while Baylor has played them in just 6. And count two of the other most elite programs over the past 20 years Tenn and Notre Dame - UCONN has played them a lot more. There's more chances for UCONN to lose.

But really you have to look at UCONN's early years with Geno. That slowed the "run to 600." You can't take any meaning from this "600 number." It's an invented stat by someone who is bored. They're both great coaches.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Kim is a very good coach. But she has not embraced Geno's we will play anyone, anywhere philosophy.

 

[cabbie191]

1. Different WCBB atmosphere.
2. Mulkey, at the beginning of her coaching tenure, had huge name recognition as a player and as a coach from a major WCBB power.
3. She is recruiting in much more fertile WBB territory
4. She has done a great job
5. Lastly, as far as this board is concerned:
a. Very little of her success can be attributed to Coach Auriemma.
b. Baylor, post Griner, has continued to be a major WCBB power.

Congratulations!

I don't disagree with any of this but I think it's fair to point out that while it's true that Texas' population and therefore recruiting base is much larger than Connecticut's, Baylor has much more significant local competition for those recruits - Texas and Texas A&M to name two.

 

[wbball novice]

Really thought-provoking responses. I think also that Kim and Geno have different philosophies for developing players.

 

[VAUConnFan]

To me the biggest complement on Kim came from UConn legend Rebecca Lobo when I heard her in an interview responding to a question as to who were the top 5 competitors in the history of women's basketball. Her top 5: Carol Blazejowski, Kim Mulkey, Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, and the one newcomer: Sabrina Ionescu. She refered to them as "DBers". If you haven't heard the PAC12 women's podcast, I've attached the link for the podcast where you can click the interview with Rebecca. The discussion on top competitors starts at the 20 minute point (Rebeccas comparing Sabrina with Taurasi) and ends at about 23 minutes 30 seconds, as they joke about the 5 "DBers" Great overall interview with Mary Murphy, Ashley Adamson, and Rebecca.

WOW!
It will take some time to figure out how to respond to this without the thread getting closed.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Mulkey hasn’t really been a favorite of mine, but I did think last year she seemed More confident and relaxed during the FF. I said then I wondered if the pain of losing then getting a grandchild maybe made her evaluate priorities. Also I know she was just sick whenever Cox went down (as was I) but she pulled it together.

I still consider the trinity of greatness to be geno, muffet and Tara but mulkey would be next.