Mt. Rushmore and Beyond

[1974yankees]

Again, you are wrong. Paige won 2 NPOY awards as a 5th year player this past season: the AP & Honda awards. Paige put up 3 straight 30+ games to get the Huskies to the FF. You are basically making the argument that Paige is not one of UConn's all-time greats because she was injured? That's a pretty tough assessment for a player who had one of the greatest seasons ever as a Husky.

Your comment, "She just wasn't the same. A lot of her game is lost forever.' is demonstrably absurd. Do yourself a favor. Trust your daughters' judgement. I have watched every Husky player since 1995. Paige is one of the best to every play in Storrs.

I do agree with you on Sarah, although as others have pointed out, Mt Rushmore, which has 4 spots, doesn't have enough places for all the greatest UConn players.

 

[1974yankees]

I notice when anyone disagrees with you on this board or expresses an OPINION that is contrary to your opinion they get verbally assaulted by you....

For the record JUJU Watkins won both the Naithsmith (the big one that really counts) and the Wooden awards. (The next big one)

I have also watched every player come and go since 1995. I would personally take at least 10 players over Paige (and this is NOT a disrespect to Paige)...

Starting with Lobo, Svetlana, Rizzotti, Taursi, Maya, Tina, Renee, Stewart, Jefferson, Collier. I could name a couple more too.

As far as who my 8 and 11 year old daughters idolize goes....Let's just say I prefer someone like Maya because at least I won't have to turn the volume off....But that is just me.

Btw,

I didn't say Paige wasn't one of "the best" players. I Said there were others that I thought were better.

 

[oldude]

I notice when anyone disagrees with you on this board or expresses an OPINION that is contrary to your opinion they get verbally assaulted by you....

For the record JUJU Watkins won both the Naithsmith (the big one that really counts) and the Wooden awards. (The next big one)

I have also watched every player come and go since 1995. I would personally take at least 10 players over Paige (and this is NOT a disrespect to Paige)...

Starting with Lobo, Svetlana, Rizzotti, Taursi, Maya, Tina, Renee, Stewart, Jefferson, Collier. I could name a couple more too.

As far as who my 8 and 11 year old daughters idolize goes....Let's just say I prefer someone like Maya because at least I won't have to turn the volume off....But that is just me.

Btw,

I didn't say Paige wasn't one of "the best" players. I Said there were others that I thought were better.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on who the best UConn players were, and yes JuJu split some of the NPOY awards with Paige.

But you said Paige did not win any POY awards. That was wrong.

You also diminished Paige’s play since her injuries, which is demonstrably false statistically and by any competent evaluation from anyone who has watched her play over the past 5 years. I feel certain there is absolutely no one else on this forum who agrees with that assessment.

 

[Zanzman]

I agree with Jefferson. In fact she was way better than Bird in my opinion...

I would only put two names on that "MT. Rushmore"

Stewart and Maya. Maybe Taursi but definitely not Paige.

I just don't think Paige belongs with those 2-3.

It's because she was injured and her best year was her freshman year before the injuries. We really didn't get to see the real paige after her injuries. She just wasn't the same. A lot of her game was probably lost forever.

Maybe Taurasi wow, Horace Clark wants to loan you his glasses.

 

[1974yankees]

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on who the best UConn players were, and yes JuJu split some of the NPOY awards with Paige.

But you said Paige did not win any POY awards. That was wrong.

You also diminished Paige’s play since her injuries, which is demonstrably false statistically and by any competent evaluation from anyone who has watched her play over the past 5 years. I feel certain there is absolutely no one else on this forum who agrees with that assessment.

I did NOT say Paige "didn't win a POTY award".....Obviously she won the big one as a freshman... So you misread or misunderstood what I said.

I also said her best year was her freshman year.

I also said Paige is a great player and "I took my hat off to her after those injuries"....I am blown away that anyone could come back from those types of injuries/surgeries...

But I do believe Paige has lost a step or two. That's all. She is still a great player but there is something missing.

This is normal. It is also human nature for an athlete to be somewhat tentative and play with less fire. In the back of their minds they will always be a little fearful of these injuries happening again...

Just watch what happens with JUJU. When she comes back in 2026-2027.

 

[browns]

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on who the best UConn players were, and yes JuJu split some of the NPOY awards with Paige.

But you said Paige did not win any POY awards. That was wrong.

You also diminished Paige’s play since her injuries, which is demonstrably false statistically and by any competent evaluation from anyone who has watched her play over the past 5 years. I feel certain there is absolutely no one else on this forum who agrees with that assessment.

No JuJu did not split NPOY awards..Paige DID NOT win the AP POY..she won the Honda that's it and JuJu won the other 4..winning 1 out of 5 is not splitting!

 

[1974yankees]

Maybe Taurasi wow, Horace Clark wants to loan you his glasses.

Lol. This argument about who should and should not be on "MT. Rushmore" is funny...

I would argue that Stewart/Maya are definitely on there.... If we are picking only 2... If we are picking 4 like the real mount Rushmore I think I would put Collier on that mountain..


At the end of her UConn career, Collier ranked 3rd in scoring, 4th in rebounds, and 7th in blocks. She ranks 4th in most consecutive starts at UConn, with 112, had 49 career double-doubles, and averaged a double-double (20.8/10.8) her senior season. She became the fifth player in the exclusive 2000/1000 club, joining UConn greats Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart and Rebecca Lobo. Collier reached the 1000 rebound mark in the game against Louisville, and reached 2000 points in the very next game against Cincinnati.[13] She was a member of the 2016 Connecticut Huskies National Champion team and reached the Final Four in each of her four years at UConn. She received the Katrina McClain Award for Power Forward of the Year from the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in her senior season. She was an AP 1st Team All-American in both her senior and sophomore seasons, and 2nd Team in her junior season. Collier has the most rebounds (411) in a season at UConn, and finished 2nd with most points in a season at 792 points, trailing only Maya Moore. As a duo, Collier and Katie Lou Samuelson scored the most points in UConn WBB history (4688), topping B. Stewart and M. Jefferson, two teammates from their freshman season.

I guess I would put Taursi as the 4th player...

But if we are picking 2 it's Stewart/Maya.....If we are picking 3 it's Stewart/Maya/Collier..... If it's 4 then it's Stewart/Maya/Collier/Taursi....

Eventually it will be Stewart/Maya/Collier/Sara...

I don't know how anyone could disagree. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Why would I take Collier over Taursi? Because she was/is a complete player that had/has no weakness. As evidence by the mark she left at Uconn...

Even today she is probably the second best player in the world behind Stewart...

 

[oldude]

I did NOT say Paige "didn't win a POTY award".....Obviously she won the big one as a freshman... So you misread or misunderstood what I said.

I also said her best year was her freshman year.

I also said Paige is a great player and "I took my hat off to her after those injuries"....I am blown away that anyone could come back from those types of injuries/surgeries...

But I do believe Paige has lost a step or two. That's all. She is still a great player but there is something missing.

This is normal. It is also human nature for an athlete to be somewhat tentative and play with less fire. In the back of their minds they will always be a little fearful of these injuries happening again...

Just watch what happens with JUJU. When she comes back in 2026-2027.

Now you’re gaslighting me. Please reread your post #23 on this thread where you wrote, “As a 5th year senior she did NOT win POY.” That is wrong. She won the Wade Trophy as the POY voted on by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association. She also won the Honda POY award voted on by administrators (AD’s) from every NCAA member institution. These are both extremely prestigious POY awards from people who know what they are talking about.

As for your assessment of Paige losing a step or two, your opinion seems entirely arbitrary and out of step with everyone else. What quantifiable evidence from her performance this season vs her performance as a freshman can you offer to support your position?

 

[1974yankees]

Now you’re gaslighting me. Please reread your post #23 on this thread where you wrote, “As a 5th year senior she did NOT win POY.” That is wrong. She won the Wade Trophy as the POY voted on by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association. She also won the Honda POY award voted on by administrators (AD’s) from every NCAA member institution. These are both extremely prestigious POY awards from people who know what they are talking about.

As for your assessment of Paige losing a step or two, your opinion seems entirely arbitrary and out of step with everyone else. What quantifiable evidence from her performance this season vs her performance as a freshman can you offer to support your position?

The Naithsmith is the most coveted award in all of Women's basketball.. And most experts would agree.... Followed by the Wooden....

Juju won both. The fact that they have 4 or 5 or 20 other insignificant awards given to a POTY is irrelevant far as I am concerned.

The Naithsmith is the Heisman Trophy of Women's and Men's basketball...

But you want to argue over semantics..

Who is "everyone else"

I know what you are doing. You are either attempting to make me say Paige is not a good player which I won't say. Or you want me to say that Paige was the greatest player in the NCAA this year.. I won't say that either...

I have given my honest assessment and I watched every game this year. JuJu was the best player in America this year.

Paige had a very good year and is finally a national champion...I just felt something was a little off in her game.. There were a few games were she wasn't herself. Out of almost 40 games I honestly don't remember which specific games...But there were a few...

I also don't think any bad games she had were because she lacked talent. She has all the talent in the world.

However, I do believe players in any sport are sometimes a little fearful and hesitant to play at full speed after coming back from such horrendous injuries..And they rightfully should not... Would you?

That's all I am saying.

 

[NycUcWbbFan]

I don't know how anyone could disagree. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

UConn’s NPOYs are Rebecca Lobo, Jennifer Rizzotti, Kara Wolters, Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart and Paige Bueckers.

All are National Champions and all (other than Jen and Kara) were the engines on their national championship teams.

Imo, and I think of most others, Napheesa, Jen, Kara, Moriah and Kerry Bascom cannot be on Mt. Rushmore because they are not NPOY engines of UConn’s championship teams. Post collegiate play is immaterial.

You might want to examine the way you word your arguments. You are entitled to your opinion but ridiculing contrary opinions while puffing up yours is a bit much.

 

[oldude]

The Naithsmith is the most coveted award in all of Women's basketball.. And most experts would agree.... Followed by the Wooden....

Juju won both. The fact that they have 4 or 5 or 20 other insignificant awards given to a POTY is irrelevant far as I am concerned.

The Naithsmith is the Heisman Trophy of Women's and Men's basketball...

But you want to argue over semantics..

Who is "everyone else"

I know what you are doing. You are either attempting to make me say Paige is not a good player which I won't say. Or you want me to say that Paige was the greatest player in the NCAA this year.. I won't say that either...

I have given my honest assessment and I watched every game this year. JuJu was the best player in America this year.

Paige had a very good year and is finally a national champion...I just felt something was a little off in her game.. There were a few games were she wasn't herself. Out of almost 40 games I honestly don't remember which specific games...But there were a few...

I also don't think any bad games she had were because she lacked talent. She has all the talent in the world.

However, I do believe players in any sport are sometimes a little fearful and hesitant to play at full speed after coming back from such horrendous injuries..And they rightfully should not... Would you?

That's all I am saying.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. You refused to acknowledge being wrong about Paige winning several POY awards this past season. Now you are suggesting that the Naismith Award voted on by a group of Atlanta businessmen (The Atlanta Tip-off Club) is more prestigious than the Wade Trophy voted on by every college basketball coach in the nation.

It’s time to end this back and forth. Let’s pick it up again after Paige wins the WNBA Rookie of the Year and subsequently earns a gold medal as the point guard on the US Olympic team in 2026.

 

[1974yankees]

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. You refused to acknowledge being wrong about Paige winning several POY awards this past season. Now you are suggesting that the Naismith Award voted on by a group of Atlanta businessmen (The Atlanta Tip-off Club) is more prestigious than the Wade Trophy voted on by every college basketball coach in the nation.

It’s time to end this back and forth. Let’s pick it up again after Paige wins the WNBA Rookie of the Year and subsequently earns a gold medal as the point guard on the US Olympic team in 2026.

"I am proposing that the Naismith is more prestigious"

Yes lol. It is the granddaddy of them all. It is the Heisman...Which Paige won during her freshman year.

I agree Paige will win the rookie of the year award and will most definitely be the point guard on the US Olympic team too....

 

[Cuango]

Lol.

As a 5th year senior she did NOT win POTY. But she did as a freshman. She also was NOT named tournament MVP. Azzi won that... And Sarah was a close second....

All I am saying is two things.

1. She is not (in my opinion) in the same class as Stewart, Maya or Taursi. She might have been but she was injured for over 2 years during a 5 year career...On the other hand, nobody that has ever played the game EVER is in the same class as Stewart, Maya and Taursi... So this statement is not me putting down Paige...

2. Again her ranking as the hypothetical "MT Rushmore" of Uconn players was lowered because of her injuries. No player could ever possibly be the same after having the injuries she did. Yes she was a great player but she will never be the same again because there will always be this hesitation and fear of getting injured and not being able to walk again. It's human nature.

But I take my hat off to Paige because she was way better than I expected after those injuries...

For the record I might even put Collier on the same level as Taursi and ahead of Paige....

But for me, It's Stewart and Maya. Nobody could do what they did on a basketball court.

Just like nobody could do what Michael Jordan did. Not LeBron, not Bird, Magic or Kobe. There was only one Michael Jordan...

I always thought of Maya as the female version of Michael Jordan... Her atheletism was off the charts....Her class was second to none... I never once ever saw Maya using vulgar language (mostly because of her Christian upbringing) I take this into account when ranking people. But that's just me.

My two daughters (8, and 11) love Paige but they would have loved Maya too.



But I will make a prediction right now.. Sarah is going to be that 3rd player on "MT Rushmore"

I think you are waaay undervaluing Paige. Also, There is simply no truth in saying that Paige (or many other players) cannot be the same, or better after injury/ies. Sure, that has happened, perhaps more often than not, but there have been many top players who suffered injuries and came back as good or better.

 

[oldude]

"I am proposing that the Naismith is more prestigious"

Yes lol. It is the granddaddy of them all. It is the Heisman...Which Paige won during her freshman year.

I agree Paige will win the rookie of the year award and will most definitely be the point guard on the US Olympic team too....

As information, the Naismith trophy for men has been awarded since 1969. The Naismith Trophy for women was added as an afterthought in 1983. The Wooden Trophy for men has been around since 1977. The Wooden Trophy for women was only added as an afterthought in 2004.

The Wade trophy, which is only presented to women, has been presented every year since 1978. It was created by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association, in part, as an acknowledgment that neither the Atlanta Tipoff Club (Naismith) or the Los Angeles Athletic Club ( Wooden) saw fit to present a women’s award.

The only reason that Paige did not win the Wade trophy as a freshman was that freshmen were not eligible for the award at that time. Subsequently, after Paige won just about every other NPOY, the WBCA changed the eligibility to include freshmen.

You compare the Naismith trophy to the Heisman trophy. In one sense that’s an apt comparison as both trophies were created for and given only to men, at least initially. You could add the Wooden trophy as well to that comparison. On the other hand, the Wade Trophy which predates the Naismith & Wooden for women by a number of years, celebrates the achievements of women only. In effect, the Wade Trophy is “the granddaddy of them all” when it comes to women’s basketball.

The Naismith & Wooden awards are presented by a local group of Atlanta & LA businessmen respectively. The Wade is voted on and awarded by every Division I women’s basketball coach. I will leave it to others to decide for themselves which award is more prestigious.

 

[JellyBean]

My UConn Mt. Rushmore:

1). DT
2). Maya
3). Breanna
4). Rebecca

 

[browns]

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. You refused to acknowledge being wrong about Paige winning several POY awards this past season. Now you are suggesting that the Naismith Award voted on by a group of Atlanta businessmen (The Atlanta Tip-off Club) is more prestigious than the Wade Trophy voted on by every college basketball coach in the nation.

It’s time to end this back and forth. Let’s pick it up again after Paige wins the WNBA Rookie of the Year and subsequently earns a gold medal as the point guard on the US Olympic team in 2026.

So Paige is going to be the point guard over Clark ..I don't think so.
Nancy Lieberman said Clark is the best passer in WBB as she proved last year..I think Nancy knows a thing or two about playing point guard

 

[browns]

Lol. This argument about who should and should not be on "MT. Rushmore" is funny...

I would argue that Stewart/Maya are definitely on there.... If we are picking only 2... If we are picking 4 like the real mount Rushmore I think I would put Collier on that mountain..


At the end of her UConn career, Collier ranked 3rd in scoring, 4th in rebounds, and 7th in blocks. She ranks 4th in most consecutive starts at UConn, with 112, had 49 career double-doubles, and averaged a double-double (20.8/10.8) her senior season. She became the fifth player in the exclusive 2000/1000 club, joining UConn greats Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart and Rebecca Lobo. Collier reached the 1000 rebound mark in the game against Louisville, and reached 2000 points in the very next game against Cincinnati.[13] She was a member of the 2016 Connecticut Huskies National Champion team and reached the Final Four in each of her four years at UConn. She received the Katrina McClain Award for Power Forward of the Year from the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in her senior season. She was an AP 1st Team All-American in both her senior and sophomore seasons, and 2nd Team in her junior season. Collier has the most rebounds (411) in a season at UConn, and finished 2nd with most points in a season at 792 points, trailing only Maya Moore. As a duo, Collier and Katie Lou Samuelson scored the most points in UConn WBB history (4688), topping B. Stewart and M. Jefferson, two teammates from their freshman season.

I guess I would put Taursi as the 4th player...

But if we are picking 2 it's Stewart/Maya.....If we are picking 3 it's Stewart/Maya/Collier..... If it's 4 then it's Stewart/Maya/Collier/Taursi....

Eventually it will be Stewart/Maya/Collier/Sara...

I don't know how anyone could disagree. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Why would I take Collier over Taursi? Because she was/is a complete player that had/has no weakness. As evidence by the mark she left at Uconn...

Even today she is probably the second best player in the world behind Stewart...

Playing at Uconn is all about winning championships..DT won 3..2 basically all by herself.. while Collier won 1 as a freshman on Stewie's team

 

[Dove]

Rather than Mt Rushmore I would suggest packing a supreme court, but you already have 1 too many so the problems start anew.

I hate when people ask for "Your favorite three players!" and everyone gives three = 2 or 3 others.

 

[Dove]

Stewie
DT
Bird and...
Maya


That was easy.

 

[boontonbomber]

The Naithsmith is the most coveted award in all of Women's basketball.. And most experts would agree.... Followed by the Wooden....

Juju won both. The fact that they have 4 or 5 or 20 other insignificant awards given to a POTY is irrelevant far as I am concerned.

The Naithsmith is the Heisman Trophy of Women's and Men's basketball...

But you want to argue over semantics..

Who is "everyone else"

I know what you are doing. You are either attempting to make me say Paige is not a good player which I won't say. Or you want me to say that Paige was the greatest player in the NCAA this year.. I won't say that either...

I have given my honest assessment and I watched every game this year. JuJu was the best player in America this year.

Paige had a very good year and is finally a national champion...I just felt something was a little off in her game.. There were a few games were she wasn't herself. Out of almost 40 games I honestly don't remember which specific games...But there were a few...

I also don't think any bad games she had were because she lacked talent. She has all the talent in the world.

However, I do believe players in any sport are sometimes a little fearful and hesitant to play at full speed after coming back from such horrendous injuries..And they rightfully should not... Would you?

That's all I am saying.

Well, I don't think she was the same player, either. I kept saying that to me partner during the season , and she'd say"what"? Maybe not as aggressive. She looked like she owned the offensive end as a frosh. Not this season.Don't throw stats at me; they just don't tell the whole story. I think this season with Dallas she's looking more like that player again.

 

[1974yankees]

UConn’s NPOYs are Rebecca Lobo, Jennifer Rizzotti, Kara Wolters, Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart and Paige Bueckers.

All are National Champions and all (other than Jen and Kara) were the engines on their national championship teams.

Imo, and I think of most others, Napheesa, Jen, Kara, Moriah and Kerry Bascom cannot be on Mt. Rushmore because they are not NPOY engines of UConn’s championship teams. Post collegiate play is immaterial.

You might want to examine the way you word your arguments. You are entitled to your opinion but ridiculing contrary opinions while puffing up yours is a bit much.

Let me ask it this way...

If the following players:
Lobo, Svetlana, Rizzotti, Taursi, Bird, Maya, Tina, Stewart, Jefferson, Collier, Sales, Bria Hartley, Sara, Fudd and Paige.

were all high school seniors right now and Geno can select ONLY 10 of them to make the team...Would Paige make the roster?

I think not.

 

[Skeets]

There are 887 Moai on Easter Island….

That should cover it with room for growth.

 

[oldude]

Well, I don't think she was the same player, either. Maybe not as aggressive. She looked like she owned the offensive end as a frosh. Not this season.Don't throw stats at me; they just don't tell the whole story. I think this season with Dallas she's looking more like that player again.

The most efficient player in WBB??? Here’s a thought. Maybe this season Paige was more in control of the offense. Unlike her freshman season, she was surrounded by 2 #1 recruits, the pg Ivy League POY and an extremely deep roster. She didn’t have to play like her hair was on fire all the time….and yet she still managed to put up 3 x 30+ games during the Big Dance.

What I saw this year was a great player who could turn it on and off whenever she needed to.

 

[oldude]

Let me ask it this way...

If the following players:
Lobo, Svetlana, Rizzotti, Taursi, Bird, Maya, Tina, Stewart, Jefferson, Collier, Sales, Bria Hartley, Sara, Fudd and Paige.

were all high school seniors right now and Geno can select ONLY 10 of them to make the team...Would Paige make the roster?

I think not.

Maybe you ought to consult with Geno on that. He has called Paige, “ one of the most talented and dedicated basketball players he’s ever coached, someone who makes everyone on the team better.”

 

[Skeets]

As information, the Naismith trophy for men has been awarded since 1969. The Naismith Trophy for women was added as an afterthought in 1983. The Wooden Trophy for men has been around since 1977. The Wooden Trophy for women was only added as an afterthought in 2004.

The Wade trophy, which is only presented to women, has been presented every year since 1978. It was created by the Women’s Basketball Coaches Association, in part, as an acknowledgment that neither the Atlanta Tipoff Club (Naismith) or the Los Angeles Athletic Club ( Wooden) saw fit to present a women’s award.

The only reason that Paige did not win the Wade trophy as a freshman was that freshmen were not eligible for the award at that time. Subsequently, after Paige won just about every other NPOY, the WBCA changed the eligibility to include freshmen.

You compare the Naismith trophy to the Heisman trophy. In one sense that’s an apt comparison as both trophies were created for and given only to men, at least initially. You could add the Wooden trophy as well to that comparison. On the other hand, the Wade Trophy which predates the Naismith & Wooden for women by a number of years, celebrates the achievements of women only. In effect, the Wade Trophy is “the granddaddy of them all” when it comes to women’s basketball.

The Naismith & Wooden awards are presented by a local group of Atlanta & LA businessmen respectively. The Wade is voted on and awarded by every Division I women’s basketball coach. I will leave it to others to decide for themselves which award is more prestigious.

The names "Naismith" and "Wooden" make them prestigious. If they were called something else, they would be much less prestigious. So, they are real nice awards, but not significantly better than other awards.