MSG has 10 years left

[zls44]

Not good news for the Big East. Now the ACC and Big Ten can play the waiting game to move into the new place.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...arden-midtown-site-10-years-article-1.1408251

 

[whaler11]

I have absolutely no idea why this hurts the Big East - but anytime you can flush a billion dollar improvement down the toilet you have to do it.

 

[J187Money]

They are interviewing random people on the street about it this morning. Funny.

 

[Waquoit]

This is far from over.

 

[sportsart]

Move MSG? Anyone have an idea how that might be done?

 

[noeynox]

This is far from over.

I would imagine this is the type of thing that will have the general public in an outcry, and force the legislators to back track.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I hate Dolan, Rangers and the Knicks, but how is this even possible without them getting the majority of their investment into the arena back?

Like, this idea to renovate Penn station just came out of nowhere?

 

[The Funster]

Any thing that screws Dolan gets a big thumb's up from me.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Hah, yeah right. In 10 years those politicians will be all gone and MSG will be staying put. They just spend three years gutting and completely renovating the whole thing and spent hundreds of millions doing so, they're not going to let it get torn down 10 years after that's done.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Hah, yeah right. In 10 years those politicians will be all gone and MSG will be staying put. They just spend three years gutting and completely renovating the whole thing and spent hundreds of millions doing so, they're not going to let it get torn down 10 years after that's done.

I think this misses much of the dynamics of NYC.

NYC is expecting about a million new residents in the next 10 years and they have to go somewhere - and many think that area is around 10th avenue (there is a ton of land speculation going on there). Moynihan Station will serve a good chunk of the demand to the area, but Penn Station also needs to be upgraded and is totally boxed in with MSG above it (I think something like 300K people move in and out a day as it is). When Dolan played politics with NYC and refused to move in the Farley building they had to know this was coming, especially with the upcoming permit renewal. Add to that that the Dolan's also sputtered the West Side Jet's Stadium for fear of competition (a death-nail to NYC attempts at the Olympics) and they have had this coming for awhile. And unlike most sports franchises/arenas they really have no leverage here - what the city will gain from developing that land far outstrips what is now a relatively poor use of that property.

And the $1B dollars will be recouped in a few years, and certainly within 10 years.

 

[kingdobbs]

There is the fact that Metro-North wants to get access to Penn Station for at least the Hudson and New Haven lines (the rail infrastructure all exists for the most part, but MNR doesn't have space in the station itself), now that East Side Access to Grand Central for LIRR is in the works (due to be operational in 2019). Although in effect, it would be trading some LIRR trains to GCT in exchange for some MNR trains going to Penn, it is still an extra burden on Penn which is already taking close to, if not more than, twice the ridership it was designed for, between NJT, LIRR and Amtrak.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I think this misses much of the dynamics of NYC.

NYC is expecting about a million new residents in the next 10 years and they have to go somewhere - and many think that area is around 10th avenue (there is a ton of land speculation going on there). Moynihan Station will serve a good chunk of the demand to the area, but Penn Station also needs to be upgraded and is totally boxed in with MSG above it (I think something like 300K people move in and out a day as it is). When Dolan played politics with NYC and refused to move in the Farley building they had to know this was coming, especially with the upcoming permit renewal. Add to that that the Dolan's also sputtered the West Side Jet's Stadium for fear of competition (a death-nail to NYC attempts at the Olympics) and they have had this coming for awhile. And unlike most sports franchises/arenas they really have no leverage here - what the city will gain from developing that land far outstrips what is now a relatively poor use of that property.

And the $1B dollars will be recouped in a few years, and certainly within 10 years.

The problem with the real estate usage theory is that real estate costs there are too high for the million new people likely to show up - recent college grads and younger professionals, young people with families. More than likely, they'll end up in places like Queens and Brooklyn which are being redeveloped at lightning speed, as opposed to Midtown with its astronomical rent prices. I have great difficulty seeing MSG being torn down and moved. Where would they put it? Hoboken? Brooklyn? The Bronx? The west side and its no zero Subway access?

 

[WestHartHusk]

I heard Javitts, but who knows.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I heard Javitts, but who knows.

0% chance unless a Subway line is built there, which is not yet funded, much less being built, and thus wouldn't be ready in 10 years by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[J187Money]

0% chance unless a Subway line is built there, which is not yet funded, much less being built, and thus wouldn't be ready in 10 years by any stretch of the imagination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension

It opens in June 2014...station at 34/11th.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

MSG is in a great location near a subway (including PATH) nexus (Herald Square), adjacent to Penn Station, and within walking distance of the Port Authority bus terminal.
Of course, that also the problem. Both Penn Station and the Port Authority are well above capacity and well outside their life expectancy. Penn Station was built in the late 1960’s and was designed to handle 200K passengers a day. A rate that was expected to decline at the time as the automobile and airplanes were expected to entirely replace train service. Whoops! Today, Penn Station handles 400K passengers a day. Both need to be re-built or replaced and Dolan, a major property owner in the area, is seen an impendent (remember NYC’s Olympic bid?) to this effort on which over a half a million jobs and billions of dollars is dependent on.
I doubt that the City will force Dolan to eat his recent $1 Billion investment in MSG; but, he did announce and start MSG’s renovation well after NYC had begun pushing him to build a new area elsewhere in Midtown. Thus, I take the 10 year lease as a threat by the City to get Dolan to move forward.

 

[junglehusky]

Here's a gallery of renderings the Municipal Art society solicited for a new Penn Station. If you like looking at pretty architectural renderings that will never be built, knock yourself out.

 

[J187Money]

Here's a gallery of renderings the Municipal Art society solicited for a new Penn Station. If you like looking at pretty architectural renderings that will never be built, knock yourself out.

Wow. That's pretty ridiculous. I'd settle for something that isn't a disaster at this stage.

 

[J187Money]

One other thing...Barclays is great. But I went last night to see Cirque du Soleil and didn't get home till nearly 1am. Wherever the new MSG goes I hope it is convenient to Metro-North.

 

[FDNY99]

The reason Dolan didn't replace MSG is tax breaks that are tied to the arena from years ago. These tax breaks are so valuable that it was cheaper to basically gut the Garden the past 3 summers. The original plan was to put Penn Station across 8th Ave in the Post Office building. It will be interesting to see this play out because the LIRR line in Grand Central is not far away from completion.

 

[FDNY99]

MSG is in a great location near a subway (including PATH) nexus (Herald Square), adjacent to Penn Station, and within walking distance of the Port Authority bus terminal.
Of course, that also the problem. Both Penn Station and the Port Authority are well above capacity and well outside their life expectancy. Penn Station was built in the late 1960’s and was designed to handle 200K passengers a day. A rate that was expected to decline at the time as the automobile and airplanes were expected to entirely replace train service. Whoops! Today, Penn Station handles 400K passengers a day. Both need to be re-built or replaced and Dolan, a major property owner in the area, is seen an impendent (remember NYC’s Olympic bid?) to this effort on which over a half a million jobs and billions of dollars is dependent on.
I doubt that the City will force Dolan to eat his recent $1 Billion investment in MSG; but, he did announce and start MSG’s renovation well after NYC had begun pushing him to build a new area elsewhere in Midtown. Thus, I take the 10 year lease as a threat by the City to get Dolan to move forward.

Don't forget that Dolan was also able to keep the stadium from being built over the LIRR railyards by the Javits Center by backing a plan that will create a self containd residential village including shopping and a school. The West side/Hell's Kitchen area of Manhattan where my firehouse is has become a permanent home to sky cranes and building projects.

 

[coachcap]

Too bad that the Jets Stadium on the West Side never came to fruition. Seems like a sports complex would have solved this move.

 

[CL82]

I'd hate to see another pro sports team leave NJ but yeah coach that would have been a great location and may have gotten NYC an Olympic bid.

 

[zls44]

The reason Dolan didn't replace MSG is tax breaks that are tied to the arena from years ago. These tax breaks are so valuable that it was cheaper to basically gut the Garden the past 3 summers. The original plan was to put Penn Station across 8th Ave in the Post Office building. It will be interesting to see this play out because the LIRR line in Grand Central is not far away from completion.

I love that the replacement MSG/Penn Station price tag was FOURTEEN BILLION DOLLARS.

 

[FDNY99]

Too bad that the Jets Stadium on the West Side never came to fruition. Seems like a sports complex would have solved this move.

Yeah...Dolan was able to get the project squashed...and this mini city passed...in a neighborhood where 4-6 story tenements and old commercial buildings are being replaced by 42 story apartment/condo buildings. With the increased traffic...any issues with the Lincoln Tunnel basically paralyze the West Side of Manhattan. I hope the city does make Dolan replace the Garden in 10 yrs.