More injury news for Tennessee

[EricLA]

Payne won't see much action, if any, vs. TN, it will be Camp and Orrange in backcourt with Kokenis and Lindy L.

Nneka O. has outplayed Glory in the 3 times we've played, so I'll take her and her sister again, even with Baugh in the line-up.

i think Nneka has a huge advantage over Glory. Glory is a nice player who is uber athletic and like the energizer bunny, but her FT shooting is atrocious and she's incapable of hitting anything but a point blank layup. i've noticed Nneka not only is a very good FT shooter, but she's expanded her game to be able to hit from anywhere in the mid range distance.

As for Vicki vs. Chiney, i think Vicki has the advantage there due to her experience. Chiney has had some good moments, but she didn't impress me as much as i thought she would when you played UCONN. but i'm not sure you have anyone who matches up well with Spani or Stricklen. then again, i thought your guards would not match up well with UCONN, and our speed would cause all kinds of problems, but that wasn't the case. the bigger issue was the lack of scoring from Laroque and that other freshman. but i thought Orrange and Camp were very good...

 

[tnvolfan65]

Sorry, I thought Payne was your starting 3. Camp looked good versus Uconn, but I haven't seen much of Orrange. I thought she would come in and make a big difference for y'all and was surprised to see her on the bench in that game. Stanford has always been a few athletic guards away from taking it to the next level...if those two can progress, or have already progressed enough, they could make a big difference on your season and in particular in our matchup.

But even if you want to take Nneka and Chiney, Baugh and Glory will be able to hold their own, and I don't think it would surprise anyone to see them outperform the sisters.

 

[UConnCat]

This stretch will tell a lot about our team.

I agree. Massengale has an outstanding A/TO ratio of 35/15. No other Tenn player has a positive A/TO ratio. (By comparison, every UConn player except Dolson has a positive A/TO.) After Massengale's 35 assists, the next highest assist total for a Tenn player is 11 (Spani and Baugh). Simmons will be taking over the point while also struggling with her confidence. So, yes, this will be an important stretch for the Tenn team and for Simmons.

 

[doggydaddy]

We'll see. Bass is not as bad as y'all think she is. Last time we played at Rutgers, she was a starter and played 21 minutes in a game that we came back from a 33-13 deficit at halftime.

No, we'all are right. She is as bad as we think she is. Otherwise she would be playing. You had to go back to the 2008-09 season, in her freshman year to find a meaningful game she played significant minutes in. It was one of 13 starts her freshman year. In 09-10 she started one game. In 10-11, she started ZERO games.

She's been delegated to the bench for the last 2.5 years for a couple of reasons. First was Pat's decision to switch to a zone defense...this negated Bass's defensive ability, because she was so small. She doesn't have the speed of Bobbitt or Tameka Johnson who could make up for their size with an incredible ability to hawk other ballhandlers. Stricklen was a foot taller and made our zone huge.

So, why was she not playing when Tennessee was not playing zone defense? They only switched over last year I believe. And they don't play zone 100% of the time, so why wouldn't she get in?

On the offensive side of the ball, it allowed us to play our best five players.

Your best 5 players? You didn't have a 7-8-9 player rotation? She wasn't a part of the regular rotation since her freshman year.

When Simmons and Avant arrived last year, we spent most of the time trying to get them accustomed to playing the position..and the same with Massengale this year.

So, Pat doesn't play Bass because she needs the minutes to get other players used to playing the point? Makes NO sense.

Along with Kamiko, it's always been more beneficial to the team to try and develop the other guards with more potential.

And Bass has no potential. Sorry to say.

Obviously she's not going to be a star for us either as she is limited physically, but she's not "terrible" by any means.

I have watched many Tennessee games over the years. Bass either doesn't play, plays in total blowouts or in a competative game, has a couple of TOs and then is taken out.

She is another true point guard who wants to get her teammates involved. She knows the sets after 3 years of practice, but hopefully now we'll see if she can translate her game when it matters.

Well, she hasn't so far.

Now all of this to say, I think she will still be played in backup capacity but I do think she will contribute meaningful minutes in meaningful games.

Wanna bet?

I don't mean to trash Bass and I'm sorry if that is how this is coming off. But when I see many Tennessee fans say that no problem with Massingale being out and using Bass as a reason why, I have to chuckle. She went from 691 minutes to 356 minutes to 190 minutes and probably less this year. There are good reasons for that and none of them are what you have stated. She just doesn't have the talent level to do it.

 

[tnvolfan65]

i think Nneka has a huge advantage over Glory. Glory is a nice player who is uber athletic and like the energizer bunny, but her FT shooting is atrocious and she's incapable of hitting anything but a point blank layup. i've noticed Nneka not only is a very good FT shooter, but she's expanded her game to be able to hit from anywhere in the mid range distance.

As for Vicki vs. Chiney, i think Vicki has the advantage there due to her experience. Chiney has had some good moments, but she didn't impress me as much as i thought she would when you played UCONN. but i'm not sure you have anyone who matches up well with Spani or Stricklen. then again, i thought your guards would not match up well with UCONN, and our speed would cause all kinds of problems, but that wasn't the case. the bigger issue was the lack of scoring from Laroque and that other freshman. but i thought Orrange and Camp were very good...

We don't need Glory to be what Nneka is for Stanford for us to be successful. I would never say Glory is better than Nneka. I think Nneka is actually a good player for Glory to strive to play like, and those are all valid arguments in maybe deciding who to take in the draft. However, in this matchup, we just need Glory to neutralize Nneka. I guess that could mean they both go off for 25 and 15, but what I was actually hoping for is Glory to give us 12 and 10 and limit Nneka to around the same. Glory's offense still needs some more polishing, though she is much improved and can't hit a lot more than a point blank lay-up, but where she is most effective is on the defensive side of the ball and with her relentless rebounding.

 

[cardfan]

Sorry, I thought Payne was your starting 3. Camp looked good versus Uconn, but I haven't seen much of Orrange. I thought she would come in and make a big difference for y'all and was surprised to see her on the bench in that game. Stanford has always been a few athletic guards away from taking it to the next level...if those two can progress, or have already progressed enough, they could make a big difference on your season and in particular in our matchup.

But even if you want to take Nneka and Chiney, Baugh and Glory will be able to hold their own, and I don't think it would surprise anyone to see them outperform the sisters.

Taylor Greenfield started at the 3, not sure if she will start vs. TN. Orrange will be very good, she is a little green now. Not many frosh start right away and make an impact, especially running the triangle O.

Four straight Final Fours is the next level.

 

[cardfan]

We don't need Glory to be what Nneka is for Stanford for us to be successful. I would never say Glory is better than Nneka. I think Nneka is actually a good player for Glory to strive to play like, and those are all valid arguments in maybe deciding who to take in the draft. However, in this matchup, we just need Glory to neutralize Nneka. I guess that could mean they both go off for 25 and 15, but what I was actually hoping for is Glory to give us 12 and 10 and limit Nneka to around the same. Glory's offense still needs some more polishing, though she is much improved and can't hit a lot more than a point blank lay-up, but where she is most effective is on the defensive side of the ball and with her relentless rebounding.

Chiney is the best rebounder of the group, especially O boards.

 

[speedoo]

Four straight Final Fours is the next level.

Yeah, kinda funny for an LV fan to tell a Stanford fan what is needed to get to the "next level" these days.

On the other hand, it's been a while since Stanford has beaten the LV's. Great opportunity to do it this year.

 

[tnvolfan65]

It was Greenfield I was thinking of, my mistake.

And I'm very much aware Stanford has outperformed Tennessee in the postseason the last several years. I wasn't speaking from a UT pedestal, I was speaking as a general fan of WCBB. Stanford has always had the post game, they've been a few athletic guards away from actually bringing home the championship, which would be the next level for them. Every observer would say the same thing.

 

[cardfan]

Yeah, kinda funny for an LV fan to tell a Stanford fan what is needed to get to the "next level" these days.

On the other hand, it's been a while since Stanford has beaten the LV's. Great opportunity to do it this year.

We beat them by 15pts at home 2 yrs ago and in OT 2 yrs before that. We haven't won at TBA since '96, when we beat them by 18pts without Folkl (who was playing vball at the time). And some TN fans have the nerve to complain about the refs at Maples.

 

[Jmpenn]

I don't mean to trash Bass and I'm sorry if that is how this is coming off. But when I see many Tennessee fans say that no problem with Massingale being out and using Bass as a reason why, I have to chuckle. She went from 691 minutes to 356 minutes to 190 minutes and probably less this year. There are good reasons for that and none of them are what you have stated. She just doesn't have the talent level to do it.

I think most TN fans are worried about this 4 game stretch especially with Massingale out. She is a huge part of this team and is greatly needed. Most fans hope that Simmons can handle the point with Bass being a back up for Simmons if needed. If Bass does not play then Strick would be at the point and most want her to play the 3. I don't expect Bass to play huge minutes but I do hope she is able to give a few minutes to give Simmons breaks.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think most TN fans are worried about this 4 game stretch especially with Massingale out. She is a huge part of this team and is greatly needed. Most fans hope that Simmons can handle the point with Bass being a back up for Simmons if needed. If Bass does not play then Strick would be at the point and most want her to play the 3. I don't expect Bass to play huge minutes but I do hope she is able to give a few minutes to give Simmons breaks.

As they should be. Tennessee, even as many TN fans say differently, is not a deep team, especially at the guard spots.

Bass might see a couple of minutes to spell Simmons. But only because TN has no other options.

 

[cardfan]

It was Greenfield I was thinking of, my mistake.

And I'm very much aware Stanford has outperformed Tennessee in the postseason the last several years. I wasn't speaking from a UT pedestal, I was speaking as a general fan of WCBB. Stanford has always had the post game, they've been a few athletic guards away from actually bringing home the championship, which would be the next level for them. Every observer would say the same thing.

I disagree somewhat. Not to go down memory lane, but we've lost many true pgs with ACLs (and concussion) over years which caused our 2 guards to play the point. I know a lot of teams have had injuries, including key players lost at TN and UConn, but before this year, we haven't had a true pg that started for us since Susan King, which was 9 years, I think.

That said, we didn't lose to TN in Tampa because of not having quick guards and the same is true vs. UConn in San Antonio. I told Voepel in Dec. last year that we could beat any team, including UConn, ND, TN and BU, but I wanted NO part of A&M as they were a bad match-up for us. But we also did a very bad job breaking the press (vs TN too) and not utilizing Pedersen correctly (on the post vs. wing) and some horrible calls, one in particular that swung the game to A&M.

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Stanford has not been able to beat UT even with more talent and the home court advantage. UT beats Stanford even without AM. RU will win because they are a much better team this year. UT will lose to KY in the SEC, the vols are not the vols of the past. Sad to say but Pat's illness, and even wheb she was healthy, has not been able to adapt to the game as it is played now. Pat's famous phrase, the Vols are no longer a factor in women's college basketball.

 

[cardfan]

Stanford has not been able to beat UT even with more talent and the home court advantage. UT beats Stanford even without AM. RU will win because they are a much better team this year. UT will lose to KY in the SEC, the vols are not the vols of the past. Sad to say but Pat's illness, and even wheb she was healthy, has not been able to adapt to the game as it is played now. Pat's famous phrase, the Vols are no longer a factor in women's college basketball.

but we have, the last 2 times at Maples.

 

[Suebird10fan]

We'll see. Bass is not as bad as y'all think she is. ...

Obviously she's not going to be a star for us either as she is limited physically, but she's not "terrible" by any means. She is another true point guard who wants to get her teammates involved....

You're right! I looked at her stats: 2.3 assist-to-turnover ratio! Not bad!

Oh wait, I got that backwards ... that's 3 assists and 7turnovers ... not the other way around!!!

Sorry tvf65 ... I couldn't resist!

Seriously ... thanks for posting here and please continue to give us the perspective from Knoxville.

 

[magical2]

UGHHHH Don't you hate it when you type a long intricate post covering everything from Ariel's injury,the schedule for TN,every TN player,comments by posters,the potential mess that exhists and more and then you screw it up by losing the entire post I will try to put it together again later! Damn,this is really worthy of exploring how this could really be a huge storyline now and down the road this season.
Very briefly! Stanford and Rutgers IMHO could and I believe will beat TN.Stanford inspite of the loss of the 2 P's to graduation. The DePaul game at home and the UCLA game on the road is not the game and team envisioned 9 months ago with Caldwell,A super recruiting class,and before 2 of their best players went down for the entire season. The current team is a shell of what had been anticpated! Much more when I can regroup and type all that was lost!
Ira Oh Kamika Williams is not going to be playing this season IMHO

 

[magical2]

but we have, the last 2 times at Maples.

This game is going to be at Maples and I believe it will be a ST Victory

 

[tnvolfan65]

No one is expecting Bass to replicate what Massengale has given us, but she is logically one of the first players that comes to mind now that Massengale is out as she is our only remaining point guard.

I'm not going to get in another "dispute every sentence you write" argument with you doggydaddy, but yes Tennessee chose to develop Stricklen, Williams, Simmons, Avant, and Massengale over Bass. She didn't play because they were better at her position. That doesn't make her terrible. All of those players are good. Just as Smallbone or maybe Engeln or Johnson for yall...they may not be on the same level as our other players, but they are not terrible, and they could probably be impact players on a different team. She may not have as much potential as the players I listed, but to say Bass has no potential is simply not true.

She has her downfalls, namely her size, but she is quick, she knows our systems, she is committed to playing hard, she is an excellent free throw shooter, and she has shown the ability to take and hit the 3-point shot. I don't expect the team to concede just because we lost our starting point guard, and I wouldn't expect our fan base to just sit around and cry about it. It's a big loss, but we take what we have and move on. At the same time no one is saying "no problem with Massengale gone." I think we're just trying to stay optimistic.

 

[EricLA]

but then wouldn't you say that they "chose to develop Stricklen, Williams, Simmons, Avant and Massengale over Bass" because all those players are simply better, or to put it differently, Bass is not as good?

Developing players at UCONN has zero to do with doing it for one at another player's expense. the staff will do their best to get the most out of every single player. some players are terrific surprises and develop into starters even tho their rankings were modest at best (Jess Moore, Maria Conlon) while others highly heralded out of HS don't develop as people would have hoped/expected (Paige Sauer, Charde Houston).

don't the players attend the same practices and go thru the same drills and spend the same amount of time (more or less) working on their game? Bass is a pure PG. the fact that Pat had to take a wing, Stricklen, and make her the starting PG speaks to how little she thinks of Bass' game.

to make an analogy, if Caroline, Bria, and Brianna were unavailable for whatever reason, Geno would start Tiff or Kelly as the starting PG. he'd never start Lauren because she's simply not good enough. nothing wrong with that - when you look at any of the top teams, they are loaded with talent and there are bound to be players who simply are reserves for their entire careers...

 

[doggydaddy]

You don't mind if I use the "dispute every sentence" technique, do you? I'll try not to dispute EVERY sentence.

No one is expecting Bass to replicate what Massengale has given us, but she is logically one of the first players that comes to mind now that Massengale is out as she is our only remaining point guard.

No one said that anyone was expecting Bass to replicate Massengale.

I'm not going to get in another "dispute every sentence you write" argument with you doggydaddy, but yes Tennessee chose to develop Stricklen, Williams, Simmons, Avant, and Massengale over Bass.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that Pat doesn't try to develope all her players? Please don't let the future recruits know.

She didn't play because they were better at her position. That doesn't make her terrible.

I totally agree. And I don't think I used the word terrible. It was another poster.

All of those players are good. Just as Smallbone or maybe Engeln or Johnson for yall...they may not be on the same level as our other players, but they are not terrible, and they could probably be impact players on a different team. She may not have as much potential as the players I listed, but to say Bass has no potential is simply not true.

Again I never said she was terrible. I'm disputing her possible contribution while Massingale is out.

She has her downfalls, namely her size, but she is quick, she knows our systems, she is committed to playing hard, she is an excellent free throw shooter, and she has shown the ability to take and hit the 3-point shot.

Shown the ability to take and hit the 3? Really? 38/139 for her career. 27.3% Ok...she is not terrible. But THAT is terrible. But she is a very good free throw shooter.

I don't expect the team to concede just because we lost our starting point guard, and I wouldn't expect our fan base to just sit around and cry about it. It's a big loss, but we take what we have and move on. At the same time no one is saying "no problem with Massengale gone." I think we're just trying to stay optimistic.

Who is talking about conceding? And who said anything about a fan base sitting around crying about anything? But I read several posts somewhere else that said Simmons and Bass can handle it. No issues. I'm just disputing that. It's what I do...lol.

 

[tnvolfan65]

There's a difference in developing a player in practice and developing them in close game situations and that is what I was referring to. Of course Bass has been worked with in practice. I didn't think I needed to clarify that.

We'll see what happens with her over the next four games. I expect her PT will increase.

And you there's a big difference in saying Simmons and Bass can handle it and saying just Bass will handle it like you originally said DD.

 

[doggydaddy]

There's a difference in developing a player in practice and developing them in close game situations and that is what I was referring to. Of course Bass has been worked with in practice. I didn't think I needed to clarify that.

It's not what you said. I'm not a mind reader.

We'll see what happens with her over the next four games. I expect her PT will increase.

It will increase. But that is not saying much. I would call it situational. It would have to be a situation that her play won't hurt the team.
And you there's a big difference in saying Simmons and Bass can handle it and saying just Bass will handle it like you originally said DD.

Huh??? I said that Bass will handle it? Please go back and read what I wrote.

 

[Jmpenn]

UGHHHH Don't you hate it when you type a long intricate post covering everything from Ariel's injury,the schedule for TN,every TN player,comments by posters,the potential mess that exhists and more and then you screw it up by losing the entire post I will try to put it together again later! Damn,this is really worthy of exploring how this could really be a huge storyline now and down the road this season.
Very briefly! Stanford and Rutgers IMHO could and I believe will beat TN.Stanford inspite of the loss of the 2 P's to graduation. The DePaul game at home and the UCLA game on the road is not the game and team envisioned 9 months ago with Caldwell,A super recruiting class,and before 2 of their best players went down for the entire season. The current team is a shell of what had been anticpated! Much more when I can regroup and type all that was lost!
Ira Oh Kamika Williams is not going to be playing this season IMHO

The Depaul game is actually at Madison square garden so more of a neutral court. I will be very surprised if Kamiko doesn't play this season. By all accounts she is way above schedule and there has been no swelling and she has been cleared for many basketball activities. My guess is she will be playing in Jan.

 

[Phil]

They really do have rotten luck.

Massingale is out 2-3 weeks with 2 dislocated fingers. Happened in practice today.

They play Depaul next and then go on the road for 3 games, Rutgers, UCLA and then Stanford. Could be a tough stretch with their starting point out.

I'm sorry to hear that, I was looking forward to seeing her tomorrow.