More About Big East Leadership

[CL82]

I'd be interested in readers thoughts if the B10 or ACC asked UConn to join. Would we want that? I ask as I get the sense people don't see the commish as being public enough in his thoughts - none of us have a clue what he or the conference's plans are. Are we upset because we are not rumored and a bit fearful of bein left behind? Or are we committed to staying and making the BE a survivor conference?

I like the Big East. We are on the verge of a full recovery from the raid with the new TV deal. If our conference mates have the cajonnes to stay the course we will be fine, well more than fine really.

ACC is a step backwards. It is a steaming mess, possibly more unstable than our own conference. There are a few teams I would not mind poaching from there (and BC is definitely not one of them) but I wouldn't want to join it.

Big Ten should be renamed Big Money which equals big stability. There are not many teams that would say no to them but it would be a big culture shift and would reduce the quality of our basketball opponents.

 

[gars44]

I'd be interested in readers thoughts if the B10 or ACC asked UConn to join. Would we want that? I ask as I get the sense people don't see the commish as being public enough in his thoughts - none of us have a clue what he or the conference's plans are. Are we upset because we are not rumored and a bit fearful of bein left behind? Or are we committed to staying and making the BE a survivor conference?

It's probably true that any BE team would accept an invite to a stable conference, B10 first, ACC second. I don't see that happening. The conferences are stable, and the B10, at least, has stated publicly that they have no interest in expanding further unless it is ND. ND is not, and foreseeably will not be, interested. FSU is not leaving the ACC. There is no reason to. FSU vaulted to national prominence in the ACC. They can do it again. The conference is stable and profitable. No one (FSU, Clemson, BC, MD) is leaving. There is just no reason to. Against that background, BE football schools need to reaffirm commitments to each other, taking to heed the needs and wants of the BE's most historic programs, the ones that the nation respects most, that have the most story lines on game day, the ones with "tradition." That is the cache, like it or not. Those schools are, in no particular order, PITT, WVA, and SYR. These are the programs we can least afford to lose. Therefore, their AD's should be the leaders on the football side, as I think they are. We should be following their lead, whatever it happens to be, regarding conference expansion/contraction, etc., and football issues affecting the conference. I hope and trust we are, because Providence, obviously, must defer to a group of programs that do not have a direct interest in football-related issues.

 

[upstater]

I don't believe the BE and ACC are as table as some imagine.

The SEC might decide to expand into ACC territory.

There are so many teams in play in the ACC that any mass movement is enough to scare some schools into making that move.

Clemson, Virginia Tech, NC State, Florida St, maybe Maryland, are all potential targets. Maybe West Virginia. If the SEC adds Missouri, it would only need two more teams.

The other ACC teams might be looking around and wondering what their conference and their TV contract will look like if three of the football first schools bolted. Sure, FSU might say NO in public, but if Virginia Tech and FSU start playing footsie, then bar the doors, because Clemson and NC State may join the stampede.

 

[gars44]

True, but there is no reason for FSU and VT to play footsie in the SEC. The ACC contract, which was recently signed, now turns out to be undervalued and they're stuck with it for a few years. They can live with that. But the conference is stable, and FSU and VT have a much better shot at top 10 rankings and BCS bids right where they are. Being in the SEC is just not a good enough reason to jump from a stable, traditional conference. So, I believe the BE is in good position due to the b10 and ACC having no desire or purpose to expand. We just have to keep certain members happy: WVA, PITT and SYR. If we weather through this for a few years, give it time, we will be fine. But we have to stick together, and this means making the football members comfortable. If this means split, or if it means two divisions, a football division and a basketball division, then so be it.

 

[Nostical]

When FDNY99 says --I think that the vision Pres. Herbst has for UConn puts us on the same track as the state schools (state flagship research instutions) in that conference (Big Ten).....I believe he's on the right track. There's no doubt that had she been here a few years earlier, we would be in the AAU, the hallmark of schools in that conference (including Nebraska). I'm sure her vision of what UConn can become, and her insistance that its image and endowment be addressed with a sense of urgency, will stand us well as these conference issues get worked out. In fact, I see us as one of the coveted schools with a choice of where to hang our hat.

 

[RS9999X]

When FDNY99 says --I think that the vision Pres. Herbst has for UConn puts us on the same track as the state schools (state flagship research instutions) in that conference (Big Ten).....I believe he's on the right track. There's no doubt that had she been here a few years earlier, we would be in the AAU, the hallmark of schools in that conference (including Nebraska). I'm sure her vision of what UConn can become, and her insistance that its image and endowment be addressed wiechnology Park th a sense of urgency, will stand us well as these conference issues get worked out. In fact, I see us as one of the coveted schools with a choice of where to hang our hat.

Herbst is doing what she was hired to. The Medical Center and Technology Park were already on the table as was the endowment plan

Here's the thing. Research Univerities are like Div I Football. Moving from the 80s to the 60s requires an incredible commitment. Most of the competition ahead of UConn is angling for similar results. The top 50 is an arms race and a small state Public University like UConn is at a demographic disadvantage. UConn needs to produce 10 Boone Pickens to really gt it done.

Of the 30 Div I programs with $1 billion in endowment--the BiG has the most. 11 of their 12 teams. Iowa at $825 Million is the poor one . The oi-l money ahs been food to the BiG-12 too. Baylor and Rice are billion dollar babies.

 

[uconNYC]

If the SEC for its 14th team takes Virginia Tech, I wonder if the Big East and the ACC might come to a mutual agreement for BCU to go back to the Big East (without any financial penalties). It might actually be beneficial to all three parties as the ACC would have less mouths to feed (10 member schools) and their football title game has been a miserable failure anyway. Big East would get back an old member that fits its geographic footprint and BCU would no longer be on an island and would receive money similar to what they were getting in the ACC. Really seems like a win-win. So in the end conferences would look like this:

B1G - 12 schools
Big East - 10 football/18 basketball (+BCU)
ACC - 10 schools (-BCU, -VT)
SEC - 14 schools (+TAMU, +VT)
PAC 16 - 16 schools (+Texas, TT, OU, OSU)
Big 12 - 12 schools (+7 MWC/CUSA schools)

The thing is Marinatto should be working on this stuff behind the scenes, but I bet he is going to be reactive opposed to proactive. So ACC will logically make an offer to SU or UConn to fill VTech's departure and once again destabilize the Big East.

 

[uconNYC]

Mark Cuban 'gets it' regarding conference expansion. I actually think 9 is the ideal number for all conferences as it allows every one to play each other in football, home and home in basketball and less mouths to feed.

http://blogmaverick.com/2011/09/04/so-what-should-big-12-schools-do-say-no-to-super-conferences/

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

hopefully this assuages some of the non-stop "providence is doing nothing!!!!!!!" posts: http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/statuses/110561896045879296

 

[junglehusky]

hopefully this assuages some of the non-stop "providence is doing nothing!!!!!!!" posts: http://twitter.com/#!/PeteThamelNYT/statuses/110561896045879296

Similar reporting from Lenn Robbins at the NY post (link stolen from alexd on the bb board). Also mentions possible MD-to-B1G scenario.

 

[upstater]

I laugh at the fans that say no way Maryland leaves the ACC.

ACC TV payout: $13 million
Big10 TV payout: $30 million

And Maryland's program is bleeding cash at an alarming rate, as we've recently read. Never mind the fact that the ACC is a crazy SEC expansion away from being obliterated. 3 schools to the SEC would hurt the ACC deeply.

Maryland would go flying into the arms of the Big10. Heck, Maryland once agreed to join the Big East when Penn State sought a spot.

 

[upstater]

I am not impressed by Mark Cuban's blathering about college sports in recent years, and this offering doesn't improve his image.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I realize geography doesn't matter as much as it used to for conferences, but am I the only that breaks out Google Maps to check geographical fit, flight and travel patterns, etc?

 

[RS9999X]

Correct about Cuban. 9-game schedules are coming making 10 teams in a conference the new 12.

Providence can't be proactive. They represent 17 schools. All they can do is propose adding schools. They can't suggest a merger that spins off schools.
Prepare for 20 teams in the BE if Oklahoma leaves and the SEC stops at 14

If the SEC and PAC go to 16 then all bets are off while the BE and ACC get in a staredown over how many and who survives and under what names? Providence as the head offices of the ACC which now a basketball only conference and adds A-10 teams and Swofford as head of the BE at MSG and represents 16 football teams--the Big-12, ACC and BE leftovers plus the 4 premiium BE basketball teams.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Since it's a holiday and it's all hypotheticals, I could handle Kansas, KSU and Mizzou.

For football

BE Atlantic/Coastal/Whatever

Uconn
SU
Pitt
WVU
Rutgers
USF

BE Midland/Whatever

TCU
Kansas
KSU
Mizzou
Louisville
Cincy

It brings us the Kansas City, St. Louis and Dallas markets. Yeah, I know TCU doesn't own Dallas but it's a footprint. I don't know how much St. Louis follows college, but I'm assuming Mizzou gets the lion's share there. Kansas gets the Kansas City market.

For basketball.

It's tough to find a fourth team to add to the midland schools. NDU, Marquette and Depaul are natural fits out there. Unfortunately PC, Nova, G'town, SJU and SHU are all natural fits with the other schools on the east coast.

I guess a one division 19 game schedule is doable for basketball. Play every team once. Sure there's an imbalance of home/away (9/10) but that's a secondary concern.

A final thought. KSU and Kansas both have 50K football stadiums and Mizzou is 70K. RU and L'ville have expanded to 50K+ and SU is right at 50K. Time to get those 12K-20K seats built on the rent to get is somewhere in the 50K+ range. And yes I know the bball practice facility is first and no I haven't donated a single dime nor is it in my near future.

 

[auggie22]

the story that uconn can sell that some of the other big east programs cannot (syracuse and ru, i'm looking at you) is trend. uconn academics and athletics are both trending up by most objective measures, and they continue to make significant, strategic investments, suggesting that a long-term, upward trend will continue. it is in uconn's best interests for the expansion movement to play out slowly, as i think they are still viewed as a bird in the bush.

 

[upstater]

The academic thing is not very relevant. Read the articles coming out of Nebraska recently where the president is complaining that while the Big10 added it to the athletic conference, some of their conference cohorts tossed them out of the AAU. The new President of Amherst College (who was in the Big10 last year, specifically, one of the bigwigs in the CIC) was quoted as saying that it would be less than truthful to say that academics was a big consideration. If the CIC downplays the importance of academics in these decisions, then think how conferences like the SEC and ACC operate.

 

[upstater]

Since it's a holiday and it's all hypotheticals, I could handle Kansas, KSU and Mizzou.

For football

BE Atlantic/Coastal/Whatever

Uconn
SU
Pitt
WVU
Rutgers
USF

BE Midland/Whatever

TCU
Kansas
KSU
Mizzou
Louisville
Cincy

It brings us the Kansas City, St. Louis and Dallas markets. Yeah, I know TCU doesn't own Dallas but it's a footprint. I don't know how much St. Louis follows college, but I'm assuming Mizzou gets the lion's share there. Kansas gets the Kansas City market.

For basketball.

It's tough to find a fourth team to add to the midland schools. NDU, Marquette and Depaul are natural fits out there. Unfortunately PC, Nova, G'town, SJU and SHU are all natural fits with the other schools on the east coast.

I guess a one division 19 game schedule is doable for basketball. Play every team once. Sure there's an imbalance of home/away (9/10) but that's a secondary concern.

A final thought. KSU and Kansas both have 50K football stadiums and Mizzou is 70K. RU and L'ville have expanded to 50K+ and SU is right at 50K. Time to get those 12K-20K seats built on the rent to get is somewhere in the 50K+ range. And yes I know the bball practice facility is first and no I haven't donated a single dime nor is it in my near future.

Kansas City is heavily a UMissouri town, by something like 3 to 1.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

The academic thing is not very relevant. Read the articles coming out of Nebraska recently where the president is complaining that while the Big10 added it to the athletic conference, some of their conference cohorts tossed them out of the AAU. The new President of Amherst College (who was in the Big10 last year, specifically, one of the bigwigs in the CIC) was quoted as saying that it would be less than truthful to say that academics was a big consideration. If the CIC downplays the importance of academics in these decisions, then think how conferences like the SEC and ACC operate.

No, academics aren't really important, but it is true that we have three major programs that are all trending upward right now, and all three are national TV draws.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Kansas City is heavily a UMissouri town, by something like 3 to 1.

Fair enough, but is it safe to assume that KU, Mizzou and KSU dominate the college coverage for St. Louis and Kansas City?

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Fair enough, but is it safe to assume that KU, Mizzou and KSU dominate the college coverage for St. Louis and Kansas City?

I would assume so, there's really nothing else there at the college level.

 

[auggie22]

The academic thing is not very relevant. Read the articles coming out of Nebraska recently where the president is complaining that while the Big10 added it to the athletic conference, some of their conference cohorts tossed them out of the AAU. The new President of Amherst College (who was in the Big10 last year, specifically, one of the bigwigs in the CIC) was quoted as saying that it would be less than truthful to say that academics was a big consideration. If the CIC downplays the importance of academics in these decisions, then think how conferences like the SEC and ACC operate.

Not very relevant perhaps, but still relevant. While I did not read the comments made by the new President of Amherst College, I can imagine he is saying that Nebraska would not have been the choice if academics were the primary factor, which is an obvious statement. Still I think the B1G has cultural fit as a priority, meaning that they endeavor to partner with like-minded institutions that do research and academics on a large scale, and reasonably well. The better Uconn is measured wrt research expenditures, enrollment, endowment, etc., the more likely they will be a strong candidate for B1G expansion - even if this is not the deciding factor, it will be a qualifying factor.

 

[upstater]

Not very relevant perhaps, but still relevant. While I did not read the comments made by the new President of Amherst College, I can imagine he is saying that Nebraska would not have been the choice if academics were the primary factor, which is an obvious statement. Still I think the B1G has cultural fit as a priority, meaning that they endeavor to partner with like-minded institutions that do research and academics on a large scale, and reasonably well. The better Uconn is measured wrt research expenditures, enrollment, endowment, etc., the more likely they will be a strong candidate for B1G expansion - even if this is not the deciding factor, it will be a qualifying factor.

Well, there are about 100 schools that are better than Nebraska given your criteria, schools like Cincy, Louisville, USF, San Diego, etc. Even UConn beats Nebraska when it comes to research. Remember, agriculture dollars don't count since that's pure pork, no peer review needed to land those grants. It's all the doing of the congressional delegation. The Carnegie Foundation that rates research one universities specifically discounts agriculture dollars, and the AAU has followed its lead.

One other factor: the AAU is nothing more than a lobbying organization in Washington, DC. It is hardly an academic institution. It's a club.