MLS Expansion

[UCFBfan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-las-vegas-minneapolis-sacramento-set-thursda

Wish MLS would open their eyes and scrap the second LA team and instead give Minneapolis and Sacramento, two proven squads in NASL and USL respectively. LA had their shot for two teams and showed there was not enough interest. I still feel that Miami and Atlanta will flop as well. I get the draw because of glamor and whatnot for LA and Miami but go for proven support MLS!

 

[ZooCougar]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-las-vegas-minneapolis-sacramento-set-thursda

Wish MLS would open their eyes and scrap the second LA team and instead give Minneapolis and Sacramento, two proven squads in NASL and USL respectively. LA had their shot for two teams and showed there was not enough interest. I still feel that Miami and Atlanta will flop as well. I get the draw because of glamor and whatnot for LA and Miami but go for proven support MLS!

Basically, if you have 100 million bucks you get to put your team wherever you want.

I really hope that Minneapolis doesn't get a team, because it will be the Vikings owner that gets it and it will push Minn United out.

I am sort of rooting for the NASL. I would love to see an NASL team advance to the US Open Cup Finals and win.

 

[Sportsman5]

part of it is building up franchises where players from around the world will want to play. L.A. and Miami are cities that are very marketable to a global talent pool. The key for MLS is to build up the product enough so certain cities can get enough revenue to be competitive in attracting the top players in the world and then create a few franchises that can compete on a global level. It will also likely take a few owners willing to take losses in the 10s of millions for 5-10 years in exchange for building up a national and global brand for their team. Toronto, Seattle, New York, LA, and Miami are some of the cities that have a chance at becoming a brand if they have owners willing to spend and MLS makes the rules a little more lax in terms of salary cap and exempt players.

 

[ZooCougar]

part of it is building up franchises where players from around the world will want to play. L.A. and Miami are cities that are very marketable to a global talent pool. The key for MLS is to build up the product enough so certain cities can get enough revenue to be competitive in attracting the top players in the world and then create a few franchises that can compete on a global level. It will also likely take a few owners willing to take losses in the 10s of millions for 5-10 years in exchange for building up a national and global brand for their team. Toronto, Seattle, New York, LA, and Miami are some of the cities that have a chance at becoming a brand if they have owners willing to spend and MLS makes the rules a little more lax in terms of salary cap and exempt players.

Unfortunately, with single entity and no free agency the players don't even get to pick. Kei Kamara wanted to come back to KC from England, but he couldn't because it was Columbus's turn in "Allocation".

Just look at how the whole Jermaine Jones saga went down. MLS is borderline WWE with the way they parse out stars.

 

[Sportsman5]

Unfortunately, with single entity and no free agency the players don't even get to pick. Kei Kamara wanted to come back to KC from England, but he couldn't because it was Columbus's turn in "Allocation".

Just look at how the whole Jermaine Jones saga went down. MLS is borderline WWE with the way they parse out stars.

It will likely be a while before the MLS changes things. Even if advertising $$ goes way up, the owners will constantly be trying to slow everything down in terms of benefits to the players. There's no reason why the MLS can't be a top league in the world within 12-15 years if the owners want to pay players well and make it easy for top players to play in the U.S., but it will probably take twice that time for the league to become one of the best in the world. It will also be exponential growth during that time, so I don't see much movement over the next 5-7 years.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-las-vegas-minneapolis-sacramento-set-thursda

Wish MLS would open their eyes and scrap the second LA team and instead give Minneapolis and Sacramento, two proven squads in NASL and USL respectively. LA had their shot for two teams and showed there was not enough interest. I still feel that Miami and Atlanta will flop as well. I get the draw because of glamor and whatnot for LA and Miami but go for proven support MLS!

Agree on that. I think a second LA team and a team in Miami are a mistake and team in Atlanta playing at an NFL stadium is very questionable. Though NYC should be able to support a second team, I do not like how NYC FC looks like it is going to be a AAA team for Man City in the EPL and wish they would delay the team until a soccer stadium is ready for them in NYC as Yankee Stadium is good for a 'special' event or two and not a permanent home. Vegas? I assume that stadium will be indoors or the US is going to look hypocritical complaining about Qatar with a league team playing having games in +120 F in the summer. MSP is an established market. Give them a team. The second team should go to Sacramento, St. Louis, or San Antonio, all of which appear to have established markets.

 

[ZooCougar]

The LA Team may be a mistake. But the ownership group was willing to pay the 100 Million bucks and they want to put 150-200 Million of their own money into an SSS.

LA is huge so the popularity of the team could go either way. But the league seems to be wanting to solidify major TV markets. The new TV contract is worth 90 Million I think, the next one would be far more after expansion.

I really dislike the Atlanta franchise. It will be another second class citizen like the Revs. Only one NFL owner ever did anything good with his MLS clubs and that was the Hunt family. They still own FC Dallas and the offloaded KC to some awesome new owners, but while the Hunts owned the Wizards, they really were middling. The fact that we could have an NFL owned Atlanta AND Minn. franchise just kills me.

Even worse is that MLS still clings to this Single Entity setup which completely taints the competition, divorces MLS from the global player marketplace and basically calls into question whether MLS "Clubs" are really just "outlets" or tentacles of the same monstrosity.

They get to make up player allocation rules as they go along and come up with assinine stuff like this:

"An interesting new wrinkle to the rules is that NYC FC and Orlando City “have the right to renegotiate a draft player’s salary (either up or down) without having to place such player on waivers or giving his previous club a right of first refusal.”
In essence, that means NYC FC or Orlando City can draft a player, decide that they want to pay the player a salary figure that the player doesn’t accept, and then the player is theoretically stuck in contract limbo. "

This is in regards to the expansion draft that will take place next month.

What would I do to MLS?

-Dismantle Single Entity
-Allow some degree of Free Agency
-Salary Cap between 7-10 Million

If you actually want to continue to improve the league, then this is what needs to happen. Salary Cap will force sustainable spending, and by jettisoning these archaic allocation rules you will actually have a competitive player marketplace.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I really dislike the Atlanta franchise. It will be another second class citizen like the Revs. Only one NFL owner ever did anything good with his MLS clubs and that was the Hunt family. They still own FC Dallas and the offloaded KC to some awesome new owners, but while the Hunts owned the Wizards, they really were middling. The fact that we could have an NFL owned Atlanta AND Minn. franchise just kills me.

PS - The Krafts own the Revs. they did well at first when MLS started; but, outside the signing of Jones, have done little in the last 10 years.

 

[ZooCougar]

PS - The Krafts own the Revs. they did well at first when MLS started; but, outside the signing of Jones, have done little in the last 10 years.

They did well back when players had second jobs working at Dick's Sporting Goods on the side. They won a "blind draw" for Jermaine Jones, but really MLS screwed Chicago out of that signing. Another awful symptom of Single Entity.

 

[Pudge]

I think this gets to the heart ...

They have rigid rules regarding the Single Entity nature (which frankly ... probably saved this league through some dark times) ... UNTIL they don't have rules. The MLS has a way of opening rules up to make things happen. I suspect this is just going to advance with more segregation of interests. The Toronto, NYCFC, LA, Seattle program (maybe others) will reach for more of a Global Branding and ... I believe ... that will lead the powers of MLS to be even more squishy.

And, what I didn't know, and it seems all my English friends do: The Salaries of the non-Stars is horribly low. The AAA tag on NYCFC is appropriate because lots of these guys are making a fraction of what the standard is in the EPL.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think this gets to the heart ...

They have rigid rules regarding the Single Entity nature (which frankly ... probably saved this league through some dark times) ... UNTIL they don't have rules. The MLS has a way of opening rules up to make things happen. I suspect this is just going to advance with more segregation of interests. The Toronto, NYCFC, LA, Seattle program (maybe others) will reach for more of a Global Branding and ... I believe ... that will lead the powers of MLS to be even more squishy.

And, what I didn't know, and it seems all my English friends do: The Salaries of the non-Stars is horribly low. The AAA tag on NYCFC is appropriate because lots of these guys are making a fraction of what the standard is in the EPL.

In MLS the pay disparity is pretty bleak.

Obafemi Martins gets paid 150k a game, and some guys get paid 35k a year.

It's the opening up of the rules that is the problem. If they can get a star player placed in a market, they'll rewrite the rules to make it happen. The league wanted Jermaine Jones in New England, despite the fact that Chicago had done all of the legwork to sign him and was willing to match the salary. So they orchestrate a "blind draw" which was certainly rigged.

The thing about Man City Junior is that people are forgetting that except for the 3 designated players (DPs), all of NYC FC's players will be owned by the league because of single entity.

Where things will could get really contentious is with NYC FC's Academy. If their Academy has a prospect that Man City desires, then they can just sign him up to the Man City Academy.

And it is time to end Single Entity.

Look at who owns MLS Clubs these days. This is not like it was in 1996 with Anschutz, Kraft and Lamar Hunt owning the entire league. You have Stan Kroenke, Anschutz, Cerner, City Group, Red Bull, Kraft etc.... MLS has absurdly strong owners.
Sporting Park and Red Bull Arena each cost 200 Million to build, and we have guys who get paid 50k a year playing in them

Single Entity had a role in the early days of the league for sure. Why would one Anschutz owned club object to anothe Anschutz owned club signing a player? But now all it does is suppress the market value of the player. It also keeps MLS from signing better talent below the DP level. MLS clubs have good talent in their first 5 players or so, but after that, the dropoff is pretty steep.

 

[UCFBfan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/n...sc-atlanta-buildings-progressing-construction

Some updates happening to stadiums around the league. Toronto expanding and news on Orlando and Atlanta's stadiums. Still hate the Atlanta franchise moving into a football stadium....

 

[ZooCougar]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/n...sc-atlanta-buildings-progressing-construction

Some updates happening to stadiums around the league. Toronto expanding and news on Orlando and Atlanta's stadiums. Still hate the Atlanta franchise moving into a football stadium....

These teams owned by NFL owners are a loser strategy. They will always be second class citizens and just another way to make money on a stadium that doesn't get used enough.

 

[UCFBfan]

These teams owned by NFL owners are a loser strategy. They will always be second class citizens and just another way to make money on a stadium that doesn't get used enough.

Agreed. In Minneapolis I didn't realize that they wanted the Viking owners to have the franchise. I just figured that Minnesota United would be the "expansion" team. Isn't that basically what happened with Orlando?

 

[ZooCougar]

Agreed. In Minneapolis I didn't realize that they wanted the Viking owners to have the franchise. I just figured that Minnesota United would be the "expansion" team. Isn't that basically what happened with Orlando?

United and the Vikings are submitting competing bids.

Orlando, Montreal, Seattle and Portland were promotions from USL.

 

[UCFBfan]

United and the Vikings are submitting competing bids.

Orlando, Montreal, Seattle and Portland were promotions from USL.

Since there is no promotion/relegation in MLS having Minnesota United "promoted" through expansion from NASL would be the best solution in my opinion. You'd keep the fan base and have them be a soccer-centric organization.

I wish we'd see a promotion/relegation system but I know this country/power structure in major league sports will never allow it. Plus, the talent pool isn't deep enough yet to make this be the best option. Not sure what it would be like if a USL/NASL team gets promoted and they keep their current rosters.

 

[UCFBfan]

Just checked out the USL Pro page and saw that there are 12 new teams coming into the league next season?!? AT least half of them are second teams for MLS squads. I think this is great as they are continuing to build the homegrown players through higher level competition. Love seeing this. Looks like Vancouver, Portland, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle, LA, and Real Salt Lake.

http://uslpro.uslsoccer.com/home/848725.html

 

[ZooCougar]

Since there is no promotion/relegation in MLS having Minnesota United "promoted" through expansion from NASL would be the best solution in my opinion. You'd keep the fan base and have them be a soccer-centric organization.

I wish we'd see a promotion/relegation system but I know this country/power structure in major league sports will never allow it. Plus, the talent pool isn't deep enough yet to make this be the best option. Not sure what it would be like if a USL/NASL team gets promoted and they keep their current rosters.

There is a cottage industry around the pro/rel debate. Just google Ted Westervelt and Dan Loney. It's probably one of the most heated debates in American sports.

When some MLS owners have spent 200 mil on stadiums, 100 Mil on expansion fees and so on, I don't think they will ever support pro/rel unless promoted teams are forced to pay a one time 100mil promotion fee.

I would prefer to see a a really strong NASL eventually rise up and push MLS on it's own like the AFL did with the NFL.

The NASL is not like MLS. They do business the same way the rest of the world does with player signings and they don't have a salary cap. I would love to see an NASL team in the US Open Cup final.

 

[ZooCougar]

Just checked out the USL Pro page and saw that there are 12 new teams coming into the league next season?!? AT least half of them are second teams for MLS squads. I think this is great as they are continuing to build the homegrown players through higher level competition. Love seeing this. Looks like Vancouver, Portland, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle, LA, and Real Salt Lake.

http://uslpro.uslsoccer.com/home/848725.html

And many of the teams that aren't fielding USL squads yet already have affiliates in USL. I know that KC has Oklahoma City as their affiliate.

 

[ZooCougar]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...b-owned-and-independent-expansion-teams-line-

Summary of the MLS owned USL clubs, and the ones that are official affiliates.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...b-owned-and-independent-expansion-teams-line-

Summary of the MLS owned USL clubs, and the ones that are official affiliates.

Interesting that Louisville will have a tier 2 team. I assume they will use U Louisville's new stadium. Also sad that the Rev's tier 2 team, Rochester, has a nice soccer purposed stadium while the Rev's don't.

 

[UCFBfan]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...b-owned-and-independent-expansion-teams-line-

Summary of the MLS owned USL clubs, and the ones that are official affiliates.

Interesting that the Rapids aren't affiliated with the Colorado Springs team in their own state. I know that same state link ups aren't necessary but if you can build your parent clubs fan base through your tier two USL affiliate by having them be in-state, why not do it?

Also interesting that 16 MLS clubs will have affiliates and not all of the clubs will. I know this can change before next season but you'd think that all clubs would wanna do this.

How does it work though when a team is an affiliate but not a teir 2 of the club in regards to being Portland 2? Is it the same thing and the team just has a different name or different? Are the players on those affiliates in their parent MLS clubs system? Can you "call up" players from this league if needed?

 

[UCFBfan]

There is a cottage industry around the pro/rel debate. Just google Ted Westervelt and Dan Loney. It's probably one of the most heated debates in American sports.

When some MLS owners have spent 200 mil on stadiums, 100 Mil on expansion fees and so on, I don't think they will ever support pro/rel unless promoted teams are forced to pay a one time 100mil promotion fee.

I would prefer to see a a really strong NASL eventually rise up and push MLS on it's own like the AFL did with the NFL.

The NASL is not like MLS. They do business the same way the rest of the world does with player signings and they don't have a salary cap. I would love to see an NASL team in the US Open Cup final.

I can understand the financial implications. However, can't the same be said for any of the clubs across the world that are in promotion/relegation systems?? However, they seem to get along just fine.

 

[ZooCougar]

I can understand the financial implications. However, can't the same be said for any of the clubs across the world that are in promotion/relegation systems?? However, they seem to get along just fine.

The problem is that elsewhere in the world, you have clubs that form leagues.

MLS is different. They owners/investors bought into a system.

If you spend 100 million bucks then why would you allow some NASL owner attain "MLS" status merely through promotion and relegation without paying up?

MLS let Orlando City join for 75 Million and NYC FC to join for 100. LAFC is paying 100 as well.

Secondly, when a team playing in the EPL gets relegated, that team gets something like a parachute payment of tens of millions of dollars. Given that MLS still operates in the red, I don't see how they would be awarding any kind of meaningful parachute payment that is designed to take the sting out of relegation.

Check out this article:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League–Football_League_gulf

 

[ZooCougar]

Interesting that the Rapids aren't affiliated with the Colorado Springs team in their own state. I know that same state link ups aren't necessary but if you can build your parent clubs fan base through your tier two USL affiliate by having them be in-state, why not do it?

Also interesting that 16 MLS clubs will have affiliates and not all of the clubs will. I know this can change before next season but you'd think that all clubs would wanna do this.

How does it work though when a team is an affiliate but not a teir 2 of the club in regards to being Portland 2? Is it the same thing and the team just has a different name or different? Are the players on those affiliates in their parent MLS clubs system? Can you "call up" players from this league if needed?

It's complicated.

Teams with affiliates usually loan 4-5 players to the affiliates to get playing time. But the loans look like what you see in MLB. SKC had John Kempin, Kevin Ellis and Mikey Lopez playing in Oklahoma City throughout the season to get minutes and they were called back at various points to play with the first team.

With affiliates the MLS teams usually get right of first refusal or a standing agreement to loan a certain amount of MLS caliber players that they normally couldn't afford to sign.

Portland 2 would be about the same, except the big club would have complete control of who they sign. However they can only call up players unless they are on the parent club roster and have an MLS contract, which would mean in most cases that they would count against the cap. MLS roster size is about thirty.

The purpose of the USL squads is to bridge the gap between the academies and MLS.