Mikayla Coombs to Georgia [merged thread]

[eebmg]

Q: Is there any rational basis for either accepting or denying waiver requests?
A: No. This is the NCAA you are dealing with and the process is confidential.

Q: Why in the world would Coombs be granted a waiver request after having played two full seasons?
A: Mikayla Coombs has not been granted a waiver request. Georgia is about to submit a request for Mikayla. The waiver request has nothing to do with how many season(s) partial or full a player has played. This request simply is a request not to sit out a year before competing at the new school.

Q: Why would AEH have been granted a waiver when she wasn't even enrolled in the second semester of her freshman year at Mississippi State?
A: We do not know when AEH enrolled at Mississippi State. Regardless, the request is for "immediate" eligibility: To play in the very first game of the season after being enrolled. For AEH that was November of 2018 at the earliest.

C: I can understand a situation in which a coach who has recruited a kid leaves before she arrives, or shortly after she arrives, if that coach was the one reason for going to that school.
R: You might want to check your understanding because there is no such consideration in the NCAA waiver process.

Q: But otherwise, why would two UConn transfers be given special consideration?
A: The entire waiver process is about special consideration. AEH has gone through the process and been approved. Mikayla is about to go through the process let's see what happen.

C: It seems from this thread that this is a corrupt part of the NCAA.
R: Corrupt implies that money is changing hands, this is NCAA WCBB there is no money to change hands with. Try a different adjective like incompetent or inconsistent.

Q: If Azura is not considered for a waiver, but a kid going to ND is, WTF?
A: Hopefully for the last time! UCONN did not submit a waiver request for Azura. ND submitted a waiver for Jessica Shepard and that waiver was approved just like request were approved for 38 other colleges last year not named ND or UCONN.

I can see why you have 1,000,001 BY points.

 

[EricSD]

Got it, so since there is no basis for the BS "forced her out" "kicked her off the team" language, let's not use it? Kind of trollish, no?

I'm don't think that there is a transfer exception for "didn't want me on the team." But I do know that Geno doesn't oppose transferring players playing immediately. That can't be said about about other coaches.

Actually there is language out there that does say that. More or less.

While speculation surrounding her departure from the school swirled, a video of UConn head coach Geno Auriemma speaking to a group of donors emerged and ultimately played a big part in her waiver passing.

Under normal circumstances, a player has to sit out two semesters once they have enrolled at a new school. Espinoza-Hunter enrolled at Mississippi State this summer, meaning that without the waiver, she would not have been eligible until the 2019-20 season. With the comments made by Auriemma that seem to suggest that Espinoza-Hunter was asked to leave, the door opened up for her to be granted immediate eligibility.

It's from an article by Blake DuDonis where I got that quote. He also pulled a link from Raoul's twitter account from January 2018

WBB: Talking yesterday about his freshman class, UConn coach Geno Auriemma with some blunt comments on why Andra Espinoza-Hunter is transferring (starts ~11:00 mark of video) https://post original url/6CDj7iU6oy pic.twitter.com/DbsH4X0Zo7

— Raoul (@Raoul_000) January 21, 2018

I don't follow Raoul on twitter so I can't access the video. He seems to indicate (Raoul) that he has the video of Geno commenting on AEH.

 

[uconnfan68]

Let's get back to talking about the waiver process and WCBB. Your contention is: Emmert gave ND a waiver just so he could screw over UCONN WCBB? Over 70% of the waiver that were requested last year in WCBB were approved. Was that also to screw over UCONN WCBB?

Yes

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Most important thread is the trivia thread, imo.

 

[CL82]

Actually there is language out there that does say that. More or less.

While speculation surrounding her departure from the school swirled, a video of UConn head coach Geno Auriemma speaking to a group of donors emerged and ultimately played a big part in her waiver passing.

Under normal circumstances, a player has to sit out two semesters once they have enrolled at a new school. Espinoza-Hunter enrolled at Mississippi State this summer, meaning that without the waiver, she would not have been eligible until the 2019-20 season. With the comments made by Auriemma that seem to suggest that Espinoza-Hunter was asked to leave, the door opened up for her to be granted immediate eligibility.

It's from an article by Blake DuDonis where I got that quote. He also pulled a link from Raoul's twitter account from January 2018

WBB: Talking yesterday about his freshman class, UConn coach Geno Auriemma with some blunt comments on why Andra Espinoza-Hunter is transferring (starts ~11:00 mark of video) https://post original url/6CDj7iU6oy pic.twitter.com/DbsH4X0Zo7

— Raoul (@Raoul_000) January 21, 2018

I don't follow Raoul on twitter so I can't access the video. He seems to indicate (Raoul) that he has the video of Geno commenting on AEH.

That’s a commentary on that same quote which does not say she was asked to leave. She has never said so nor has Geno.

 

[oldude]

That’s a commentary on that same quote which does not say she was asked to leave. She has never said so nor has Geno.

Geno’s specific quote was something to the effect of, “She’s gone because I wanted her gone.”

 

[meyers7]

Most important thread is the trivia thread, imo.

Speaking of which, where is one????

 

[EricSD]

Geno’s specific quote was something to the effect of, “She’s gone because I wanted her gone.”

Bingo. I'm not sure why anyone is having such a hard time understanding this. It's been reported on numerous times by numerous people. I guess one could argue that saying "she's gone because I wanted her gone" is not the same as saying he asked her to leave, but it's splitting hairs. Bottom line, she didn't leave solely because it was her own choice. Anyway, on to the next!!

 

[CL82]

Bingo. I'm not sure why anyone is having such a hard time understanding this. It's been reported on numerous times by numerous people. I guess one could argue that saying "she's gone because I wanted her gone" is not the same as saying he asked her to leave, but it's splitting hairs. Bottom line, she didn't leave solely because it was her own choice. Anyway, on to the next!!

Ugh, I don't want to keep bumping this discussion so this will be my last post on it.

Scholarships are renewed or not annually. Coaches don't need to "force" anyone out. They can renew or not. I take Geno's alleged statement (didn't see the video before it got nuked) as being that he didn't find her to productive. If he felt she was a productive positive part of the program, she'd had had more minutes and she'd have stayed. But she didn't do the things necessary to earn that time, because of that she wasn't a positive part of the program. That's a world of difference from hounding here out of the program.

AEH hasn't said she was forced out. I'm not sure why anyone would insist to the contrary.

 

[j66kicker]

Bingo. I'm not sure why anyone is having such a hard time understanding this. It's been reported on numerous times by numerous people. I guess one could argue that saying "she's gone because I wanted her gone" is not the same as saying he asked her to leave, but it's splitting hairs. Bottom line, she didn't leave solely because it was her own choice. Anyway, on to the next!!

In one sense she had a choice about whatever the issue was (allegedly facial jewelry). I saw the tape. He also said [from memory], "You tell somebody to do something, and then you tell them again, and you tell them again, and after a while they're gone.

 

[CocoHusky]

Ugh, I don't want to keep bumping this discussion so this will be my last post on it.
Scholarships are renewed or not annually. Coaches don't need to "force" anyone out. They can renew or not.

Not quite.
"In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason. Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance."

The Facts About “Guaranteed” Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

NCAA Compliance Expert Rick Allen provides important facts about the new NCAA Division I rule which has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletic performance reason.

informedathlete.com

Not sure if UCONN is following this practice or not but for P5 annual renewal of a scholarship has been a dead practice since 2015.

 

[EricSD]

Ugh, I don't want to keep bumping this discussion so this will be my last post on it.

Scholarships are renewed or not annually. Coaches don't need to "force" anyone out. They can renew or not. I take Geno's alleged statement (didn't see the video before it got nuked) as being that he didn't find her to productive. If he felt she was a productive positive part of the program, she'd had had more minutes and she'd have stayed. But she didn't do the things necessary to earn that time, because of that she wasn't a positive part of the program. That's a world of difference from hounding here out of the program.

AEH hasn't said she was forced out. I'm not sure why anyone would insist to the contrary.

I would have been shocked if AEH were to go on record as to the reasons she left. But someone else DID go on record (for better or worse). To answer your question as to "why anyone would insist to the contrary - we have direct quotes from the Head Coach himself. "She's gone because I wanted her gone". Also, as @j66kicker also said, "You tell them to do something, then tell them again, then tell them again, after a while they are gone."

Did Geno need to be quoted as saying "when we met at the end of the year I did not renew her scholly"? He said under no uncertain terms that he wanted her gone. Even if he did it by simply not renewing the scholly, I have to believe there would have been some sort of conversation between him and AEH. He's never publicly said she wasn't productive and therefore the scholly was not renewed. He said the other things that have been quoted.

It's really cut and dry. Sometimes we have to make guesses as to what really goes on, but in this case on several occasions, Geno was very clear. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but there are multiple comments from Geno himself that give us clarity as to why she transferred.

With Coombs, we have to guess. Probably playing time combined with the kids who are already coming (Makurat) and hopefully on their way (Westbrook) as well as Bueckers and Muhl the following year. I have to "guess" to assume it was a PT and depth chart issue. With AEH there is no guessing needed.

 

[CL82]

Not quite.
"In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason. Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance."

The Facts About “Guaranteed” Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

NCAA Compliance Expert Rick Allen provides important facts about the new NCAA Division I rule which has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletic performance reason.

informedathlete.com

Not sure if UCONN is following this practice or not but for P5 annual renewal of a scholarship has been a dead practice since 2015.

Thanks Coco, I wasn't aware of this. So the coach being candid about playing time is probably their biggest tool.

I would have been shocked if AEH were to go on record as to the reasons she left. But someone else DID go on record (for better or worse). To answer your question as to "why anyone would insist to the contrary - we have direct quotes from the Head Coach himself. "She's gone because I wanted her gone". Also, as @j66kicker also said, "You tell them to do something, then tell them again, then tell them again, after a while they are gone."

Did Geno need to be quoted as saying "when we met at the end of the year I did not renew her scholly"? He said under no uncertain terms that he wanted her gone. Even if he did it by simply not renewing the scholly, I have to believe there would have been some sort of conversation between him and AEH. He's never publicly said she wasn't productive and therefore the scholly was not renewed. He said the other things that have been quoted.

It's really cut and dry. Sometimes we have to make guesses as to what really goes on, but in this case on several occasions, Geno was very clear. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but there are multiple comments from Geno himself that give us clarity as to why she transferred.

With Coombs, we have to guess. Probably playing time combined with the kids who are already coming (Makurat) and hopefully on their way (Westbrook) as well as Bueckers and Muhl the following year. I have to "guess" to assume it was a PT and depth chart issue. With AEH there is no guessing needed.

Mmm, wanting them gone and "forcing them out" are different thing, IMO.

Maybe this semantics. Let's go at a different way. What actions do you believe would constitute "forcing a player out" generally? What actions do you believe Geno did to "force AEH" out? In my view letting a player know that aren't doing what's needed to earn playing time isn't "forcing a player out" that's coaching.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Mmm, wanting them gone and "forcing them out" are different thing, IMO.

Maybe this semantics. Let's go at a different way. What actions do you believe would constitute "forcing a player out" generally? What actions do you believe Geno did to "force AEH" out? In my view letting a player know that aren't doing what's needed to earn playing time isn't "forcing a player out" that's coaching.

As has been discussed above, Geno Auriemma stated, "She's gone because I wanted her gone."

(Caveat...I did not independently listen to the YouTube recording of the statement and have not independently verified it; that being said, it has been reported by a few outlets and a few BY insiders.)

Given Geno Auriemma's:

• 11 NCAA Championships
• 20 Final Fours
• 24 Conference Tournament Championships
• 25 regular season conference crowns
• 9 AP COY awards
• 8 Naismith COY awards
• 7 WBCA COY awards
• 6 USBWA COY awards

...he certainly has earned all of the respect as the best-ever coach in WCBB history and has set standards for athletes on his team. D

Given all of this, do you really think/believe that Coach Auriemma was playing semantics with "wanting AEH gone" and "forcing AEH out" when he stated, "She's gone because I wanted her gone"?

Put another way, given your above-quoted posted, do you think Geno Auriemma DID or DID NOT tell AEH that she was no longer part of the program or not going to be part of the program going forward (whether you want to characterize it as dismissing her, forcing her out, etc.)?

Just my unsolicited $.02, from an outsider.

@EricLA
@j66kicker

 

[CocoHusky]

Thanks Coco, I wasn't aware of this. So the coach being candid about playing time is probably their biggest tool.


Mmm, wanting them gone and "forcing them out" are different thing, IMO.

Maybe this semantics. Let's go at a different way. What actions do you believe would constitute "forcing a player out" generally? What actions do you believe Geno did to "force AEH" out? In my view letting a player know that aren't doing what's needed to earn playing time isn't "forcing a player out" that's coaching.

I'm so sick of talking about AEH, so I'll answer generically: If any coach or employer (see @JoePgh post) wants you gone there are a number of different ways to convey that message. I have no idea what Geno said or did but the message was clear to the intended recipient because it always is.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Based on what? I don't oppose it in anyway, and I'm sure Geno won't either, I'm just not sure what the rules are.

Nobody is sure what the rules are but I suspect if UConn does not oppose the waiver I think she has a chance to get the waiver.

 

[Jmsdawg]

I'm so sick of talking about AEH, so I'll answer generically: If any coach or employer (see @JoePgh post) wants you gone there are a number of different ways to convey that message. I have no idea what Geno said or did but the message was clear to the intended recipient because it always is.

Coco, as a former business owner, I know you have to be very careful about dismissing an employee. If you do not document legitimate reason for the dismissal, you are inviting a lawsuit, a lawsuit that can cost lots of money and which the business is likely to lose unless they followed the guidelines for dismissal.

 

[CL82]

I'm so sick of talking about AEH, so I'll answer generically: If any coach or employer (see @JoePgh post) wants you gone there are a number of different ways to convey that message. I have no idea what Geno said or did but the message was clear to the intended recipient because it always is.

That's kind of my issue. It's easy to make a blanket "forced out" accusation. No one knows what it means but it sure sounds unseemly. This isn't your hometown rec team. Playing time is earned. Allocating according to who meets their obligations and who helps the team the most isn't forcing people out it's coaching.

But I'm sick of talking about it as well.

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco, as a former business owner, I know you have to be very careful about dismissing an employee. If you do not document legitimate reason for the dismissal, you are inviting a lawsuit, a lawsuit that can cost lots of money and which the business is likely to lose unless they followed the guidelines for dismissal.

I don't think business or life or basketball is any different in the sense that there are good, better, and worst ways to end any relationship. Legal guidelines, policies, HR and documentation certainly help. My main point though was about Geno and messaging: Geno is always very direct and unmistakably clear.

 

[CocoHusky]

That's kind of my issue. It's easy to make a blanket "forced out" accusation. No one knows what it means but it sure sounds unseemly. This isn't your hometown rec team. Playing time is earned. Allocating according to who meets their obligations and who helps the team the most isn't forcing people out it's coaching. But I'm sick of talking about it as well.

I know I said I was sick of talking about AEH but since this is the second time you have mention it ( playing time): Playing time was not an issue. Unhappiness with being at UCONN was not an issue. I am drawing those conclusion from Geno full statement which has been so heavily butchered here already. Editorial: The issue appears to me to be not basketball related.

 

[CL82]

I know I said I was sick of talking about AEH but since this is the second time you have mention it ( playing time): Playing time was not an issue. Unhappiness with being at UCONN was not an issue. I am drawing those conclusion from Geno full statement which has been so heavily butchered here already. Editorial: The issue appears to me to be not basketball related.

Check your PM.

 

[triaddukefan]

Did Espinoza-Hunter transfer to Georgia too , or am I missing something?