OT: Michael Cooper HOF?

[TyroneShoo]

Was not as good a player as Jones

 

[Chin Diesel]

If Grant Hill made the Hall, why not Rip or Cooper? Media hype aside, both had better pro careers, and Rip's college career wasn't far off.

There isn't any metric which says Rip or Cooper had better pro careers than Hill. I still think Rip should get in but definitely not Cooper.

As for the other UConn alums, Cliff-no, Caron-no, Kemba-yes, Drummond-yes (eventually).

And yes, Bobby Jones had a much better career than Cooper. Jones was first team all-NBA defense for 10 straight years and still managed to be a decent scorer.

 

[Scoe]

Bobby Jones got in last year.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Bobby Jones got in last year.

Water is wet.

 

[Scoe]

Is Doug Collins a HOF?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Is Doug Collins a HOF?

Not sure. I think this website might give an answer.

www.google.com

 

[Scoe]

Not sure. I think this website might give an answer.

www.google.com

This is a message board wise ass, just a rhetorical question are we not allowed to have a discussion.

 

[Chin Diesel]

This is a message board wise ass, just a rhetorical question are we not allowed to have a discussion.

Tough to have a discussion with rhetorical questions, no? Don't bother answering, my question was rhetorical.

 

[Scoe]

Tough to have a discussion with rhetorical questions, no? Don't bother answering, my question was rhetorical.

Your just trying to troll I know your type.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Your just trying to troll I know your type.

More like you're just trying to troll.

 

[Scoe]

Tough to have a discussion with rhetorical questions, no? Don't bother answering, my question was rhetorical.

The evidence is there, case closed were done.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The evidence is there, case closed were done.

More like we're done.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

There isn't any metric which says Rip or Cooper had better pro careers than Hill. I still think Rip should get in but definitely not Cooper.

As for the other UConn alums, Cliff-no, Caron-no, Kemba-yes, Drummond-yes (eventually).

And yes, Bobby Jones had a much better career than Cooper. Jones was first team all-NBA defense for 10 straight years and still managed to be a decent scorer.

I will give you three: 1) Higher career scoring average 2) Higher career playoff scoring average 3) NBA Titles won.

Hill won two titles with loaded Duke teams. Rip lead UConn to a title and was MOP. Hill was more talented, but if you measure results Rip has a strong argument.

I agree with you on Bobby Jones.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I will give you three: 1) Higher career scoring average 2) Higher career playoff scoring average 3) NBA Titles won.

Hill won two titles with loaded Duke teams. Rip lead UConn to a title and was MOP. Hill was more talented, but if you measure results Rip has a strong argument.

I agree with you on Bobby Jones.

You can hang your hat on a 17.1 ppg vice a 16.7 ppg.

I think Rip belongs in HoF and I don't have much of a problem with Hill.

Truth be told I'd have been more sold on Hill if he would have hung 'em up when he got hurt. His first 6-7 years were real high level stuff. His last 5 years were role player

Personally I'm more for top level performers whose careers were cut short with injuries- Bill Walton's, Kirby Puckett, Earl Campbell types than those who were very good for extended periods of time.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I always remembered Cooper as a really good complimentary player on great Laker teams but Kareem, Magic and Worthy were the guys you had to worry about. I'm not sure that warrants a Hall nod but the two WNBA championships as a coach may carry a bit of weight.

Seems like Halls of Fame have started getting watered down a little bit starting with Harold Baines getting in for baseball. As long as A-Rod never gets in, they can do what they want. And that coming from a Yankee fan...

 

[superjohn]

Before any of the players talked about here make the Hall of Fame Marques Johnson, Chris Webber, and Shawn Kemp need to make it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Before any of the players talked about here make the Hall of Fame Marques Johnson, Chris Webber, and Shawn Kemp need to make it.

I would have lost a ton of money if someone told me Shawn Kemp only averaged 20 ppg once in his career and it was with Cleveland.
I also would have thought Kemp's and Weber's career numbers were pretty close. Webber actually has a much stronger case than Kemp.

I remember Kemp back in his McD's AA game days with his coast to coast two handed jam. PF's and C's didn't do that and he made it look effortlessly.

Kemp is a 3 time 2nd team All-NBA and his highest MVP score was 7th. No defensive teams and never led the league in any category.

Webber had one 1st team All-NBA, 3 2nd team and one 3rd team.

Making me look at it, I'd say Webber yes, Kemp no.

 

[superjohn]

I would have lost a ton of money if someone told me Shawn Kemp only averaged 20 ppg once in his career and it was with Cleveland.
I also would have thought Kemp's and Weber's career numbers were pretty close. Webber actually has a much stronger case than Kemp.

I remember Kemp back in his McD's AA game days with his coast to coast two handed jam. PF's and C's didn't do that and he made it look effortlessly.

Kemp is a 3 time 2nd team All-NBA and his highest MVP score was 7th. No defensive teams and never led the league in any category.

Webber had one 1st team All-NBA, 3 2nd team and one 3rd team.

Making me look at it, I'd say Webber yes, Kemp no.

My point is they are all ahead of the UConn guys listed. I think Rip will fall just short, all 4 of those Pistons guys have some sort of argument and they all probably get in if they won that series over the Spurs like they should have. Kemba could get there but he was on one of the worst teams in the league, he needs a couple of runs with the Celtics and a couple more all-star appearances.

That was an 8 year run for Kemp in Seattle where he averaged 18/10 for a team that averaged 53 wins per season with some really good teams. He was also one of the faces of the league for several years there. Webber over him but they should both get in along with Marques Johnson who created the point forward position.

 

[QDOG5]

Drummond-yes (eventually).

I don't see it happening. I think he's a great guy and a good player but nowhere close to HOF consideration. 9 years in the NBA, 4 time rebounding leader, 2 time all star, 1 NBA third team.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I don't see it happening. I think he's a great guy and a good player but nowhere close to HOF consideration. 9 years in the NBA, 4 time rebounding leader, 2 time all star, 1 NBA third team.

My thoughts on Drummond (eventually) getting in to HoF is, if he stays healthy, will end up somewhere around 14000-15000 rebounds. That's top 10 all-time. No matter how much the game changes and evolves it's all time great numbers on a stat that matters.

And again, it's personal preference, but I'd rather go to the HoF and learn about players who were elite than players who were just good for long periods of time. Put in the best 3 point shooters of all-time, best rebounders, etc.

In baseball, get those base stealers in the HoF. That is such a devalued part of the game right now but for 100 years getting on base and stealing bases was how you scored runs and disrupted pitchers.

 

[calluke]

To me, if you have to ask, they aren't HOF material...

 

[superjohn]

My thoughts on Drummond (eventually) getting in to HoF is, if he stays healthy, will end up somewhere around 14000-15000 rebounds. That's top 10 all-time. No matter how much the game changes and evolves it's all time great numbers on a stat that matters.

And again, it's personal preference, but I'd rather go to the HoF and learn about players who were elite than players who were just good for long periods of time. Put in the best 3 point shooters of all-time, best rebounders, etc.

In baseball, get those base stealers in the HoF. That is such a devalued part of the game right now but for 100 years getting on base and stealing bases was how you scored runs and disrupted pitchers.

Mark Jackson is 4th all-time in assists, just 1 assist behind Steve Nash for 3rd and he's not in the Hall of Fame. Drummond is in the same boat as him, neither are considered elite. Only way Drummond makes it in is if he gets with a championship contender and really does well on the biggest stage.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

You can hang your hat on a 17.1 ppg vice a 16.7 ppg.

I think Rip belongs in HoF and I don't have much of a problem with Hill.

Truth be told I'd have been more sold on Hill if he would have hung 'em up when he got hurt. His first 6-7 years were real high level stuff. His last 5 years were role player

Personally I'm more for top level performers whose careers were cut short with injuries- Bill Walton's, Kirby Puckett, Earl Campbell types than those who were very good for extended periods of time.

Most would be surprised to learn Rip had the higher average.

I am not sure either belongs, but if you let Hill in Rip also belongs.

Walton, Campbell, Sayers all belong based on their first 5 or 6 very dominant seasons. I don't put Hill in that category. His career gets a lot of "would have been" credit without all the supporting results.