Mel Greeberg slams NCAA on ND-Baylor officiating

[pap49cba]

Unless there is such insulation that no one running the show was aware of the outrage on twitter (many from reputable beat writers) and on TV the way the Notre Dame-Baylor game was called, it would seem some display of accountability would go a long way to at least offer some explanation of what went down.

And the Guru is not saying it has to be a specific on the record communication. But if it was a mess and addressed aftewards just make people aware so at least the next time this kind of thing occurs -- and it could happen as early as this weekend -- at least there's a comeback to the man in the street that the powers know they have a problem and they're working on it.

See Master Charges... at the bottom of blog. LINK

 

[UConnCat]

carl adamec ‏@CarlAdamec 39m
The NCAA assigns Joseph Vaszily, Maj Forsberg and Jesse Dickerson to ref a NCAA Elite Eight game and there's surprise it turns out badly?

 

[UcMiami]

Strong words - I hope the NCAA listens.

 

[HoopsFan21]

My question is, where were these refs' bosses? Shouldn't they have officials in charge of the officials attending every game once you get down to the final 8 or 16 teams? Pretty sure most people are more careful about the way they go about their jobs if they know the boss is sitting 10 feet away. They need to be more proactive instead of the current model, where we just repeat the cycle over and over again. Does the women's game get such short shrift that they can't afford to pay for better officials/training/whatever? How much money would it take? Can't they get some of the men's officials to officiate the women's tournament? This seems like a pretty simple thing to fix and the fact that it hasn't means there is no problem except with public perception, or there is a problem and those in charge are too dumb to figure it out.

 

[UConnCat]

Unless there is such insulation that no one running the show was aware of the outrage on twitter (many from reputable beat writers) and on TV the way the Notre Dame-Baylor game was called, it would seem some display of accountability would go a long way to at least offer some explanation of what went down.

.

See Master Charges... at the bottom of blog. LINK

Sally Jenkins was among those outraged on twitter.

 

[baggerbob]

My question is, where were these refs' bosses? Shouldn't they have officials in charge of the officials attending every game once you get down to the final 8 or 16 teams? Pretty sure most people are more careful about the way they go about their jobs if they know the boss is sitting 10 feet away. They need to be more proactive instead of the current model, where we just repeat the cycle over and over again. Does the women's game get such short shrift that they can't afford to pay for better officials/training/whatever? How much money would it take? Can't they get some of the men's officials to officiate the women's tournament? This seems like a pretty simple thing to fix and the fact that it hasn't means there is no problem except with public perception, or there is a problem and those in charge are too dumb to figure it out.

It seems my comments at the time, about officials incompetence last night turning off fans, was felt by big time people, maybe some of them can make the powers to be understand the need for better officials.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

carl adamec ‏@CarlAdamec 39m
The NCAA assigns Joseph Vaszily, Maj Forsberg and Jesse Dickerson to ref a NCAA Elite Eight game and there's surprise it turns out badly?

Ok, but who you want??? Never liked Vaszily (we used to get him quite a bit at RU, think he lives or lived in NJ), but for a number of years Dickerson seemed up and coming. Thought he laid the biggest egg.

Crapping about Maj Forsberg seems to be common enough, but she does work the "W"; if anything, I think she simply doesn't call a lot of fouls, as opposed to a lot of fouls wrong.

 

[pap49cba]

Yep, if casual fans watch the games and conclude it is a total joke because of the officiating you can forget about 'growing the game'.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Last night the officials had me about apoplectic. My wife, not a sports fan, asked why. I told her. She says "but dear your team isn't in the game!" I tell her: Look, these kids bust their butts in season and out of season as do their coaches. They deserve better than to have an NCAA game turned sideways by a cadre of fools in striped shirts. Then any semblance of coherence vanished. I do not know what kept Mulkey sane last night.

 

[UcMiami]

My question is, where were these refs' bosses? Shouldn't they have officials in charge of the officials attending every game once you get down to the final 8 or 16 teams? Pretty sure most people are more careful about the way they go about their jobs if they know the boss is sitting 10 feet away. They need to be more proactive instead of the current model, where we just repeat the cycle over and over again. Does the women's game get such short shrift that they can't afford to pay for better officials/training/whatever? How much money would it take? Can't they get some of the men's officials to officiate the women's tournament? This seems like a pretty simple thing to fix and the fact that it hasn't means there is no problem except with public perception, or there is a problem and those in charge are too dumb to figure it out.

On the import of men's refs ... there would need to be a training period since there are some rules that are different including the interpretation of 'traveling' and there is enough difference in emphasis that it could be a mess. I suspect it would be difficult for a ref to move back and forth between the two during a season.
They are part time jobs and are have require a lot of travel without any glamour which I assume decreases the appeal.

 

[Sargassoc]

Not sure I'm reading correctly between the lines here-- but are y'all specifically annoyed by things like that phantom call against Sims? Or the non-charge charges?

Or that the level of play became more and more physical and the refs lost control?

 

[ThisJustIn]

I'm not clear what folks want -- should the NCAA officiating supervisor called them aside mid game and told them to call it differently? Not objecting to that, but boy, that's undermining.

'cause, as everyone knows, the NCAA does not supervise the officials during the regular season. The conferences do. Then the conferences recommend the officials to be used by the NCAA for the tourney. THEN, a couple of days before the tourney, I believe there's a refresher.

After every round, there's an evaluation and a reduction. Some refs move forward, so refs don't.

I don't disagree that officiating "needs to improve." But, I'm still waiting for the action steps: MONEY. Increase the budgets, expand the pools, pay for professional development....

 

[Geno-ista]

Horrible out of bounds calls, two charges on Odyssey were world class horrific, and that odyssey push off the screen aw sticky tack, and Lloyd sold that call nicely, as she really ricocheted of the screener and N Dame , not usually Lloyd sell calls better than Broadway actors! They kept a BAYLOR out of that game whenever they had to. Horrible.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'm not clear what folks want -- should the NCAA officiating supervisor called them aside mid game and told them to call it differently? Not objecting to that, but boy, that's undermining.

'cause, as everyone knows, the NCAA does not supervise the officials during the regular season. The conferences do. Then the conferences recommend the officials to be used by the NCAA for the tourney. THEN, a couple of days before the tourney, I believe there's a refresher.

After every round, there's an evaluation and a reduction. Some refs move forward, so refs don't.

I don't disagree that officiating "needs to improve." But, I'm still waiting for the action steps: MONEY. Increase the budgets, expand the pools, pay for professional development....

I don't start from the point many do, that all referees are awful. I do think some are better than others - and some that I don't particularly think are great have specific faults, such as "anticipating" calls or giving too much credit to "reputation" of either players or a team.

I do question the consistency of calls in some games, and I can accept that sometimes the referees have to adjust, just as players do. At the same time, I think that rules should be more consistently called than they are throughout a game.

With all of that said, I thought the Baylor / ND game was a combination of inexplicable calls and a tendency to look more favorably on ND. I'm not saying that they "wanted" ND to win, but that they (at least subconsciously) thought ND team and players were better, less likely to foul, etc. How a team of decent referee's (and just because I don't care for one of them doesn't make them bad) could lay an egg like that is just inexplicable to me.

 

[Padutch5]

My question is, where were these refs' bosses? Shouldn't they have officials in charge of the officials attending every game once you get down to the final 8 or 16 teams? Pretty sure most people are more careful about the way they go about their jobs if they know the boss is sitting 10 feet away. They need to be more proactive instead of the current model, where we just repeat the cycle over and over again. Does the women's game get such short shrift that they can't afford to pay for better officials/training/whatever? How much money would it take? Can't they get some of the men's officials to officiate the women's tournament? This seems like a pretty simple thing to fix and the fact that it hasn't means there is no problem except with public perception, or there is a problem and those in charge are too dumb to figure it out.

My question is, where were these refs' bosses? Shouldn't they have officials in charge of the officials attending every game once you get down to the final 8 or 16 teams? Pretty sure most people are more careful about the way they go about their jobs if they know the boss is sitting 10 feet away. They need to be more proactive instead of the current model, where we just repeat the cycle over and over again. Does the women's game get such short shrift that they can't afford to pay for better officials/training/whatever? How much money would it take? Can't they get some of the men's officials to officiate the women's tournament? This seems like a pretty simple thing to fix and the fact that it hasn't means there is no problem except with public perception, or there is a problem and those in charge are too dumb to figure it out.

 

[Padutch5]

I hope you are not expecting any response from the NCAA. Anyone who has watched college basketball[mens and womens] for as many years as I have recognizes that the NCAA is content with the current level of officiating. Don't be surprised if, despite or because of the current uproar about last night's officials, they show up in the final four. That is the NCAA's way of saying screw you.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

I agree that there were some bad calls. I think a major part of the issue was the style of play. Both teams love flopping and they both love throwing themselves into defenders in the hopes of getting a call. The two of them together are the perfect storm for a ref, a constant stream of difficult charge/block calls.

 

[luckyhusky7]

I agree that there were some bad calls. I think a major part of the issue was the style of play. Both teams love flopping and they both love throwing themselves into defenders in the hopes of getting a call. The two of them together are the perfect storm for a ref, a constant stream of difficult charge/block calls.

I agree with you, it was the 2 best acting teams in the NCAA....it was almost like they were daring the referees to make bad calls and the zebras took the bait.

 

[Sonny44]

Kim's antics and attitude are just what refs love to hate. It costs her.

 

[Bayareahusky]

In a strange way..... it is sort of poetic justice that Mulkey was the recipient of a truly badly called game..... because she throws fits over calls which she shouldn't question (reference last year's loss to LVille in NCAAs) I feel badly that Baylor I think got the shaft.... not so badly for Mulkey

 

[Geno-ista]

In a strange way..... it is sort of poetic justice that Mulkey was the recipient of a truly badly called game..... because she throws fits over calls which she shouldn't question (reference last year's loss to LVille in NCAAs) I feel badly that Baylor I think got the shaft.... not so badly for Mulkey

That Baylor game w/ Lousville, did u really watch all 40 minutes? In the first half, they didn't guard Griner- they mugged her every possession really. I'm not a BG fan, and I find Kim to be fun to watch- not stale. But the refs kept Lousville in that game in the first half IMO.

 

[Icebear]

Are folks upset that so many fouls were called or that they were called on the wrong players? Was the diving into players on drives to the hoop called or was the offense rewarded going to the line? Were flops given reward?

 

[SWHuskyFan]

I'm not upset, but there were definitely some charges called that should of been blocks. The diving into the lane with your head down approach wasn't being rewarded, except with a charge call. Seems like the refs had decided that plan wasn't going to work and overcalled the charge if anything.

 

[Geno-ista]

Are folks upset that so many fouls were called or that they were called on the wrong players? Was the diving into players on drives to the hoop called or was the offense rewarded going to the line? Were flops given reward?

IB- I am upset that a few key calls were just so pathetic. As difficult as a block charge call is or can be,Offensive Charges really jump out at you, or they should totally jump out, if you have to think about it, it's a block usually, or in a rare occurrence a good no call.
Kids are really at the spot first, block. Odyssey got called for two charges at critical points in a nip/tuck game, that were as easy a call to make, and were horrific. Then add the nickle dime on Odyssey clearing off screen, her arm extended as Lloyd was figting off screen, ricochetting off the screener. With 3 refs, somebody out there has to see that a player and/or team is getting creamed with horrific calls, and they have to adjust to that and make sure a superstar doesn't get 4th and th fouls unless they are real fouls and not imagined or ticky tack. You see make up calls all the time. The refs ended any of UConns chances in Dolson Fresh or soph more year by calling a foul on her everytime she attempted to play defense- even those times she didn't foul. And she was slower and less coordinated and did foul more- but because of her size, they just called fouls every time she defended, even if she was at the spot first.

 

[DishNSwish]

The problem starts with that crew being put together to work that game. It should not have been.

These were calls that were not made consistently all year; it's about what I expected the first games of the season to be, when teams had to adjust to the new points of emphasis, not by the end of the year in the tournament.

It had nothing to do with acting, flopping, Kim, Muffett or the man in the moon.

The refs put themselves into the game with a ridiculous amount of foul calls, many were sketchy at best, and it deprived the teams of their best chances to succeed and the fans from watching the best in the game.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

Yes ALL WBB referees are incompetent, horrible, and anything else insulting you could say, they are worse!
When the Conferences hire ex-refs from that conference to be supervisor of officials that they've worked with for 25+ years what do you expect for evaluations! Are they going to tell their BEST friends they suck!
The NCAA has to take over the supervising of officials and hire retired NBA refs that have NO prior relationships as evaluators/supervisors!
Another problem is the refs work 5 to 6 games a week all over the USA! You can't tell me that Dee Kantnor for example refereeing in PSU on Mon., Texas A&M Tues., UCONN on Weds., Rutgers on Fri., and MD on Sun. isn't going to effect their refereeing! Planes, Games, quick meals, short sleeping, etc. has to have a bad effect on their abilities!
Please check out wbbstate.com there is a section on wbb referees, how many games they work, how many fouls they call, etc. very illuminating! The lists were up during the season, I don't see it now, check for yourselves!

 

[uconnfan68]

Unless there is such insulation that no one running the show was aware of the outrage on twitter (many from reputable beat writers) and on TV the way the Notre Dame-Baylor game was called, it would seem some display of accountability would go a long way to at least offer some explanation of what went down.

And the Guru is not saying it has to be a specific on the record communication. But if it was a mess and addressed aftewards just make people aware so at least the next time this kind of thing occurs -- and it could happen as early as this weekend -- at least there's a comeback to the man in the street that the powers know they have a problem and they're working on it.

See Master Charges... at the bottom of blog. LINK

But we now know why they wear striped shirts! Research shows zebras have them to keep the flies away!

 

[UcMiami]

I posted the below in another thread but I think it is an important point to make when talking about officiating - I just added the bold:
ND/Baylor was bad reffing, but the other regional games were just typical - some bad calls, but fairly balanced and not egregious. BUT I think it is important to note the two teams involved. If coaches and players are going to work/game the refs as hard as those two teams do, then they are asking for bad results. And it is interesting to note that probably the two worst officiated regional games in the last two years had one team in common! And perhaps the next worst game in this year regional was last night in the MD/Louisville game - I do not thing either team in that contest 'games' the officials with histrionics, but Louisville does like to push the envelop to the edge and beyond and that is always tough on even good refs who really do not want to become the story.
This is not unique to WCBB - there have been issues this year with the NBA with players gaming officials, and in european soccer it got so bad that it is now a card-able offense. I would not mind having a few technical fouls assessed for egregious flops in basketball as it might rein in a few teams. And I would assign the technical to both the player and coach - two different players flop and the coach is gone. And it is clearly a taught behavior in some programs, whether player to player or with coaches involvement I don't know. But their are definitely a few teams that do it consistently and a lot of teams that do not.
Of course that would just add another call that refs would get wrong some of the time - but if they went to the video, maybe they would get it right most of the time.