Maya vs. Dee Part III | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Maya vs. Dee Part III

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I don't think this series had that much to do with DT being the best player. Phoenix lucked out even more than Minnesota with the combination of injuries and the lottery, although Phoenix put a lot more direct effort into their lottery odds. Phoenix's overall roster is a lot more talented than Minnesota at this point. There was so much more pressure on Minnesota's big 3 to create shots because of the limited play of the rest of Minnesota's roster including the lack of perimeter shooting. Not sure if there will be many options available to Minnesota though.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
In Game 2, for whatever reason, DT was the distributor and was too often the second or third option on offense. With her game lacking tempo her shooting was very off. The real Phoenix game and DT showed up last night. I agree with those who think DT is the best player in the game today. Maya carried her team this year and deserves MVP recognition, but in overall game and team contributions, DT is still The One. She has me soaring high this AM.
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Tarausi has Griner and Maya doesn't.
 
Scotter said:
I don't think this series had that much to do with DT being the best player. Phoenix lucked out even more than Minnesota with the combination of injuries and the lottery, although Phoenix put a lot more direct effort into their lottery odds.
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That's a diplomatic way of putting it.

Scotter said:
Phoenix's overall roster is a lot more talented than Minnesota at this point. There was so much more pressure on Minnesota's big 3 to create shots because of the limited play of the rest of Minnesota's roster including the lack of perimeter shooting.
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Brunson 4 pts
McCarville 0 pts
 
Just for curiosity's sake I tallied the 3-game series stats for DT & MM for a comparison when it really counted (and threw in Griner's too, just for S&G plus it was easy).

upload_2014-9-3_9-49-2.png


Regarding the OP subject, DT had more points, better FG%, 1 more rebound, a lot more assists (naturally), and shot and made more FTs. MM had better 3PT%, perfect FT shooting, and a lot more steals.

BG had more points than MM, much better FG% than either, also perfect FT shooting (but fewer attempts than either), and lots more blocks.

I know you can't compare stats - they play different positions, blah blah. Not drawing any conclusions - just the facts, ma'am...
 
They were guarding Maya like UCONN guarded Shoni last season. Noone else took up the slack. Augustus tried to but Griner was on her altering her shots.

I like the way Phoenix kept Whalen from taking too many layups. She did get a few in but not enough to take the pressure off of Maya.
 
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I am picking Dee, she is THE competitor. The Merc seemed to change up their defense by switching a lot more which caused some confusion and stopped a lot of the penetration by Whalen. I am on TV overload right now, so much to watch :)
 
I would like to see Chicago play Phoenix but I expect Indiana to win at home tonight. If so, the Indiana-Phoenix series will be extremely physical and ugly. The Fever can not score with Phoenix so clutching and grabbing and turning the game in to a slog will be their only chance. Diana committed a flagrant and technical against the Fever earlier this year. Ultimately Phoenix has too much talent to lose to either team.
 
I love Dee and still think she's the best all around player in the world. No one else can do all the things she can do, including being a terrific leader. It certainly helps that Phx has surrounded her with not 1, but probably 2 other Olympians (Taylor and Griner). To be fair, though, Griner is not an Olympian yet and Minny boasts 3 of them on their roster. I think Minny's weak link is McCarville. She can't score over or around Griner, and certainly can't stop her. I will admit Minny surprised me by winning game 2, but I think Phx showed that they are clearly the better team.

Minny will need to address the 5 position if they want to make it back to the finals IMO. McCarville and Peters are not the answers at the 5 spot. Dantas couldn't slow Griner down either. Brit shot something like 70+% for the series? and averaged close to 20 PPG. On the other hand, some people said Minny lacks 3 point shooters, but I disagree. Maya, Lindsay and Siemone can all knock them down. Maya was 0-5 but Siemone and LIndsay were a combined 4-9. Wright and White can also knock down the 3 for them as well. Phx on the other hand has really only Dee and Dewanna (both shot 33% for the series). Taylor shot about 25% from beyond the arc and Phillips can knock them down too, but Minny has more perimeter options than Phx...

But Phx has come into its' own and with Griner, Bonner along with the more experienced Taylor, Dupree and Taurasi, they look to be in the driver's seat for the next few years.
 
Right on, Taylor is also huge for the Merc, she really compliments Dee and has a knack for coming up with the ball just when they need it.
 
RockyMTblue2 said:
As the game wore on DT took more shots. I didn't say she was not shooting ... but in first half at least she was passing and ending up 2d or 3rd option and out of rhythm and she never got into it. We can agree to disagree on this.
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Yeah, we will have to disagree on that one. DT shot early and often.
 
ericsandiego said:
On the other hand, some people said Minny lacks 3 point shooters, but I disagree. Maya, Lindsay and Siemone can all knock them down. Maya was 0-5 but Siemone and LIndsay were a combined 4-9. Wright and White can also knock down the 3 for them as well. Phx on the other hand has really only Dee and Dewanna (both shot 33% for the series). Taylor shot about 25% from beyond the arc and Phillips can knock them down too, but Minny has more perimeter options than Phx...
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The stats are over a larger sample size support that Minnesota lacks 3-point shooting, Minnesota actually got lucky Phoenix had a sub-par shooting series although I think Minnesota decided to clamp down on it and let Griner play 1 on 1 for the most part. Minnesota is at the bottom of the league consistently in 3PA with Maya accounting for between 45-50% of the team's 3PA. Since the WNBA moved the 3-point line back Whalen hardly ever even attempts one and it has impacted Augustus in addition to her shooting never reaching its normal consistency this season after the injury. Neither one trusts their range enough to consistently position themselves deep to space the floor. Monica Wright is non-factor as a shooter and Tan White may be a streaky volume shooter, but she's still a career 32% 3-point shooter.

Taylor is a 38% career shooter, Phillips a 39% career shooter, and Bonner isn't particuarly accurate but she attempts a lot and sets up well beyond the 3-point line. And then they had a shooter like Jekabsone on the bench that they didn't even need to use.

But the direct comparison isn't really why Minnesota needs more shooting. Griner's presence clogs the lane and the Mercury add to that by packing the paint even more. Given how good Phoenix is on offense and the issues that Griner causes on that end as well a team is not going to be able to consistently beat Phoenix making 2-point mid range jump shots. It's not efficient enough when Phoenix is going to attempt their own share of 3s and get plenty of layups.
 
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geneticrex said:
When it's prime time and the money is on the line, there is DT.

She has done it at every major level of basketball competition, from D1, to the national team and into the pro ranks. No basketball player of either gender has her resume when it comes to huge performances in the biggest games across all 3 levels leading to multiple championships.

Not only her personal statistics, but her ability to elevate her teammates, especially when it means the most, makes her the No.1 "big time" player on our planet.
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For many years my wife and daughter have heard me say that the only player I mention in the same sentence as Bill Russell is Diana Taurasi. Should I consider reversing that sequence?
 
Striper69 said:
Tarausi has Griner and Maya doesn't.
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If Phoenix focuses on getting the ball to Griner, I don't see Phoenix losing a game in the Finals. Taurasi was fantastic last night and has been great all season. She is the player who can make circus shots and can bail her team out, but Griner is the x factor. When Griner gets double digit FG attempts, Phoenix is 25-1. When she takes less than 10 shots, they are 8-5. Get her 12-15 shots in a game and it'll be a W for Phoenix.
 
Kibitzer said:
For many years my wife and daughter have heard me say that the only player I mention in the same sentence as Bill Russell is Diana Taurasi. Should I consider reversing that sequence?
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One of the stories on ESPN.com said that Dee was "7-0 in winner-take-all games" in her career. I think the writer took a limited subset -- perhaps championship/gold medal games? -- in making that statement, but I'd not be a bit surprised if her teams have the best winning percentage in clinching games of all types (division, conference, tournament, medal) of all time.
 
Kibitzer said:
For many years my wife and daughter have heard me say that the only player I mention in the same sentence as Bill Russell is Diana Taurasi. Should I consider reversing that sequence?
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Yes.;)
 
Striper69 said:
Tarausi has Griner and Maya doesn't.
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Griner has Taurasi and Maya doesn't.

DT can play pg or sg effortlessly. She can easily swing to sf as well. In her career at UCONN I was shocked that a top 5 big didn't come to have an opportunity to play with her - sure some didn't want to come to sit behind TASK - but after that - still don't understand.

.Phoenix threw games imo - but now this early in Griner's career to have a both the best pg and sg in the WNBA/in the world, the game will be easy for Griner in a manner - and as Griner gets more consistent she'll make the game a ton easier for DT as the years catch up to DT.
 
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bballnut90 said:
If Phoenix focuses on getting the ball to Griner, I don't see Phoenix losing a game in the Finals. Taurasi was fantastic last night and has been great all season. She is the player who can make circus shots and can bail her team out, but Griner is the x factor. When Griner gets double digit FG attempts, Phoenix is 25-1. When she takes less than 10 shots, they are 8-5. Get her 12-15 shots in a game and it'll be a W for Phoenix.
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I don't think it's that simple. One can say get her the ball 4 feet from the basket and she'll score 40 a night. The point is, she doesn't come to play yet on a consistent level to demand the ball a ton yet. It will happen. For example if she gets the ball slightly outside of the paint and the defense runs a player at her, how confident are we that she can make that pass to an open shooter on a consistent basis? How often should Phoenix- with all it's other talent -slowing the game down - thus not providing lanes for driving because the offense is now a "grind offense" because the focus will be Griner instead of free-flowing? It can't be free-flowing if your intent is to get more touches to Griner. Phoenix also had 4th best pace in WNBA. They take quick shots. They are 5th in 3point attempts. To focus on Griner (at this point in her career) imo takes away from the others. It takes away from their pace and not having to rely on one player and more or less turning the others into glorified spot-up shooters. What was that line in Jurassic Park (I'm having fun here - forgive my flippant anaology)? "T-Rex doesn't want to be fed. He wants to hunt." How often do we hear and see for ourselves Phoenix has five scorers on the court? They want to hunt for the basket/beat their defender too. And they won a ton doing so and decisively beat a tremndous champion caliber team in Minny.

My guess is that 25-1 record has a ton of to do with the greatest pg in the world understanding when BG is "ready to play" on a given night. You aren't the greatest pg in the world just by the points you score and the assists you make. Thegreatest pg in the world also has a feel for what's going on.

I'm sure the preference is to get the ball to BG in halfcourt (but don't force) but imo she's still too young to "demand" the ball comes to her. After all - do we really think DT and Brondello are blundering and holding Griner back? We can't say The Coach of the Year AND the best pg in the world are blundering, can we? IMO the answer is as stated- "It's not that simple."
 
It really is simple. Get her shots and she'll make them and it keeps her involved and engaged. Maybe getting the ball to a player who just finished a three game series shooting 71% from the floor and 100% from the line sounds like a bad idea to some. I'm not one of them.

Feed the monster!
 
easttexastrash said:
It really is simple. Get her shots and she'll make them and it keeps her involved and engaged. Maybe getting the ball to a player who just finished a three game series shooting 71% from the floor and 100% from the line sounds like a bad idea to some. I'm not one of them.

Feed the monster!
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It's really simple. Do what you've been doing the whole year- you only had the greatest record in WNBA History. Some want to go away from what got you to be the greatest . I'm not one of them.
 
UConnCat said:
I would like to see Chicago play Phoenix but I expect Indiana to win at home tonight. If so, the Indiana-Phoenix series will be extremely physical and ugly. The Fever can not score with Phoenix so clutching and grabbing and turning the game in to a slog will be their only chance. Diana committed a flagrant and technical against the Fever earlier this year. Ultimately Phoenix has too much talent to lose to either team.
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It's going to be Chicago and Phoenix....a Fowles/Grinder battle.....and then some.

should be interesting.
 
I'm not sure it'll be that interesting.

Phoenix demolished Minnesota two out of the three times they played, and Minny is way, way, way better than this Chicago team (even if EDD has a good series).
 
hoophuskee said:
It's really simple. Do what you've been doing the whole year- you only had the greatest record in WNBA History. Some want to go away from what got you to be the greatest . I'm not one of them.
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Yes, you like the plan that resulted in 5 of the 6 losses. I like that plan that resulted in a 25-1 record.
 
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UConn990411 said:
I'm not sure it'll be that interesting.

Phoenix demolished Minnesota two out of the three times they played, and Minny is way, way, way better than this Chicago team (even if EDD has a good series).
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I have to agree. Big Syl has been tremendous for Chicago but BG will negate her, and Syl may do the same to BG. So that leaves us with the other players to decide the series and Chicago has no match for DT and the other Phoenix starters. Bonner will probably guard EDD and we saw what Phoenix was able to do to Maya most of the series. An unhealthy EDD doesn't come close to being the threat that Maya was. Quigley is probably not going to be able to score like she did against Indy.
 
easttexastrash said:
Yes, you like the plan that resulted in 5 of the 6 losses. I like that plan that resulted in a 25-1 record.
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I love it. The Baylor fan thinks the world revolves around his hero. So of course Phoenix played a different style in those 5 of 6 losses because his hero didn't score points. And it's not his hero's fault -- it's everyone else's fault so says the Baylor fan. Further- the one's to really blame are the greatest pg in the world and the Coach of the Year an implication by the Baylor fan. DT is such a hog and the coach blew it right?
 
hoophuskee said:
I love it. The Baylor fan thinks the world revolves around his hero. So of course Phoenix played a different style in those 5 of 6 losses because his hero didn't score points. And it's not his hero's fault -- it's everyone else's fault so says the Baylor fan. Further- the one's to really blame are the greatest pg in the world and the Coach of the Year an implication by the Baylor fan. DT is such a hog and the coach blew it right?
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I simply believe that there are times when DT can be a tad trigger-happy. But I truly believes it's because she is determined to help her team win, much like Sims in her senior season.
 
hoophuskee said:
I love it. The Baylor fan thinks the world revolves around his hero. So of course Phoenix played a different style in those 5 of 6 losses because his hero didn't score points. And it's not his hero's fault -- it's everyone else's fault so says the Baylor fan. Further- the one's to really blame are the greatest pg in the world and the Coach of the Year an implication by the Baylor fan. DT is such a hog and the coach blew it right?
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DT is one of my all-time favorite players. And of course Phoenix wouldn't be where they are today without her.
 
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