Maryland to Big10 Getting Some Legs

[junglehusky]

The difference is that Florida State and NC State have been in the conference forever.

I think we tend to overrate how much the ACC cares about academics, but it is factor nonetheless. When you match the schools up side by side, UConn is a better fit for the ACC right now than Louisville (at least that's what everyone with "inside knowledge" is saying).

FSU is much better academically that a lot of football fans might think. The academics of the football program is notorious because of scandals but the reputation of their research programs and overall academics is really nothing to laugh at. NC State is probably right there with UNC/Duke too. And your point about UConn being the best fit is a good one.

 

[upstater]

The ACC claims they value academics and Louisville is a Tier 3 academic hell hole.

Tier 3 is something USNW made up. No one in the real world knows what it means. Louisville is on par with Clemson, both schools have low research, low support for faculty, big teaching loads. little invested in terms of students (i.e. low costs per student). Fla. State and NC State are actually ahead of Clemson in this regard, but Clemson is at the bottom of the ACC, no matter what nonsense USNWR invents about tiers.

That said, I think UConn is much more viable than Louisville.

 

[junglehusky]

Thanks to everybody for their insight. Didn't realize Louisville was such a crap school.

I mean, they're not crap, they're probably a bit better than USF and Cinci and way ahead of say, Boise, but they are behind where UConn and Rutgers are. UL, USF and Cinci are building infrastructure and want to be where UConn is, and UConn wants to be where UNC and UVA are (academically as well as conference wise), these things take time and $$$.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm a lawyer. And while I haven't read the agreement, I'm pretty sure that the top-notch lawyers used by the ACC to paper the conference charter and the exit fee provision did their job. When you have sophisticated arms-length entities, one of them can't just back out of contractual obligations. If they didn't like it, they could have walked away then and paid whatever the exit fee was at that point.

Okay, that's fair. So they can't pull any WVU or SyraPitt shenanigans to pay less, since they voted "no"? Couldn't the fact that the ACC held a higher buyout vote "effective immediately" be considered diress? Are they in effect bound by the contract immediately without a "meeting of the minds"? (I know very little about contract law....it's the equivalent of a 'Contracts for Dummies' book)...

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm a lawyer. And while I haven't read the agreement, I'm pretty sure that the top-notch lawyers used by the ACC to paper the conference charter and the exit fee provision did their job. When you have sophisticated arms-length entities, one of them can't just back out of contractual obligations. If they didn't like it, they could have walked away then and paid whatever the exit fee was at that point.

By the way, whatever you decide, I'll believe. The reason being that you are Jesus Shuttlesworth, and the girls seem to like you...

 

[uconnfan68]

You better believe it is. They have failed us in every possible way....so far. Their job is to get UConn athletics into a stable prospering conference. Right now they have an F.

Then pay up a few $100 Million. We have to buy our way in now.

 

[nomar]

Okay, that's fair. So they can't pull any WVU or SyraPitt shenanigans to pay less, since they voted "no"? Couldn't the fact that the ACC held a higher buyout vote "effective immediately" be considered diress? Are they in effect bound by the contract immediately without a "meeting of the minds"? (I know very little about contract law....it's the equivalent of a 'Contracts for Dummies' book)...

Well, the Big East exit provisions are different. The problem for those schools wasn't the cost, it was the waiting period. But I think the Big East had a mechanism where you could pay more to get out more quickly. So there was wiggle room.

But yeah, Maryland will definitely try. Those are decent arguments Maryland could make to try to get the ACC to give them a discount, sure.

I'd have to read what the conference charter says but presumably Maryland agreed to be bound by any 75% vote to raise the exit fee. There's the meeting of the minds. Of course reasonableness is read into contracts, so there's an argument that $50M is just too high. But I don't think you'd ever see a judge invalidate the whole increase. It's a little harder to claim duress when you're a gigantic academic institution instead of some poor schmuck. And considering the fact that Maryland is exiting the ACC in order to make a whole lot more money, they're in a tough position to cry poverty.

You seem to know quite a bit about contract law for a non-lawyer.

 

[Chuck]

I'm thinking that MD being the departing school may be better for Uconn than FSU and/or Clemson being the team(s). I was a bit nervous when FSU and Clemson were rumored to be leaving the ACC (which they still may). My fear was that because 2 "football" schools were leaving the ACC, they would try to find a football school or 2 to replace them. With MD leaving, they have clearly been a "basketball" school. Maybe it's easier for UConn's basketball strength to get us in.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

FSU is much better academically that a lot of football fans might think. The academics of the football program is notorious because of scandals but the reputation of their research programs and overall academics is really nothing to laugh at. NC State is probably right there with UNC/Duke too. And your point about UConn being the best fit is a good one.

You're not really trying to equate NC State's academics with Duke and UNC, are you?

 

[uconNYC]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

 

[junglehusky]

That might be the case Chuck, but I'd also be concerned that if it were FSU / clemson leaving, that would be two less "football votes" and could make adding a "basetball school" more likely, whereas if MD leaves it means one less "basketball vote". I recall Coach K having very positive quotes about adding Pitt/Cuse and some FSU bigwig having a very negative reaction. It benefits UConn if the bball/fball balance of ACC membership tilts towards bball.

Having said that, it still sounds like UConn is probably at or near the top of expansion candidates, though that might be based primarily on last year's rumors. Hope that doesn't change.

 

[Silk City]

I simply can't buy these rumors. Compton might be more of a Big 10 town than Piscataway, NJ

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

While there is ACC sentiment there, I don't see them rejecting it.

 

[junglehusky]

You're not really trying to equate NC State's academics with Duke and UNC, are you?

I... don't know? I'll admit my perceptions might be tilted by research reputation, rather than undergrad admissions, etc in this case.

 

[uconNYC]

I simply can't buy these rumors. Compton might be more of a Big 10 town than Piscataway, NJ

Believe it. The Washington Post article pretty much confirms it 100%.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I simply can't buy these rumors. Compton might be more of a Big 10 town than Piscataway, NJ

Buy them. Katz and company don't tweet things that are hypothesis. Could it break down? Sure. But it would be because of an 11th hour change, not because it's a non-story. These reports are real.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I... don't know? I'll admit my perceptions might be tilted by research reputation, rather than undergrad admissions, etc in this case.

There is no basis on which NC State academics can be anywhere near Duke, and not really near UNC either.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

Well, this whole thing is so unbelievable that projecting past statements or actions to future expansion decisions is not likely to be particularly accurate. That said, I don't see the Big 10 starting this process unless Rutgers and Maryland had their bags packed already. Both are gone.

UConn would seem to be the only expansion candidate from an academic and market perspective. Louisville's football program is better this year, but actually over the time in the Big East, UConn and Louisville are pretty close in terms of wins and losses. Louisville is not nearly as attractive a market as Connecticut. Not even in the ball park. But then I never thought the Big 10 would be crazy enough to add Maryland and Rutgers.

Obviously, this is live or die time. Without Rutgers (and possibly Louisville to the Big 12), the Big East is now just the best programs from CUSA and the MWC, less TCU, Utah and BYU (the actual best programs from the MWC and CUSA). That league will get 5-8MM a year for all sports if it is lucky, and there is a very high likelihood that the Hoops schools walk if Rutgers and anyone else leaves.

UConn MUST get in the ACC.

 

[upstater]

What if MD declines? Their regents are supposedly divided and will have a meeting on Monday. Does the B1G then go for RU and UConn? Or does the ACC make a countermove for RU?

The Regents presumably have the health of the entire institution in mind, and given the losses ($$$) they would be batshit insane to turn down an extra $10 million per year (and that's at the low end of things, presumably they'll be making at least $13m more than what the ACC makes.

 

[junglehusky]

Obviously, this is live or die time. Without Rutgers (and possibly Louisville to the Big 12), the Big East is now just the best programs from CUSA and the MWC, less TCU, Utah and BYU (the actual best programs from the MWC and CUSA). That league will get 5-8MM a year for all sports if it is lucky, and there is a very high likelihood that the Hoops schools walk if Rutgers and anyone else leaves.

UConn MUST get in the ACC.

Are you suggesting UConn should #BegHarder? Who are you, and what have you done with nelsonmuntz???

 

[junglehusky]

Also, my recollection was that the hoops schools threatened to walk if UConn or Louisville left, so let's hope that Louisville doesn't leave until UConn's escape route is secured.

 

[TRest]

I fully expect the horde to have zero information about any developments until after a press conference is announced by Pres Herbst and Swofford. So time to start checking ACC country blogs and tweets.

 

[uconNYC]

I am also thinking that UL all this time has been angling for the B12, while UConn has been #BegHarder - ing for the ACC. So there are probably strong channels between UConn and the ACC which puts us in the drivers seat.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

What may give us a leg up is that the B1G is making a play at NYC with RU, adding us to the ACC gives them a player in that market, where a semi-member ND is all they have, and they just lost their main player in DC/Baltimore. UofL, while a better football program, brings little TV-wise.

 

[UConnDan97]

Well, the Big East exit provisions are different. The problem for those schools wasn't the cost, it was the waiting period. But I think the Big East had a mechanism where you could pay more to get out more quickly. So there was wiggle room.

But yeah, Maryland will definitely try. Those are decent arguments Maryland could make to try to get the ACC to give them a discount, sure.

I'd have to read what the conference charter says but presumably Maryland agreed to be bound by any 75% vote to raise the exit fee. There's the meeting of the minds. Of course reasonableness is read into contracts, so there's an argument that $50M is just too high. But I don't think you'd ever see a judge invalidate the whole increase. It's a little harder to claim duress when you're a gigantic academic institution instead of some poor schmuck. And considering the fact that Maryland is exiting the ACC in order to make a whole lot more money, they're in a tough position to cry poverty.

You seem to know quite a bit about contract law for a non-lawyer.

I know so much about contract law that I spelled duress "diress".... Plus, what I thought I knew about contract law and what happens with many of the NCAA rulings seems to be a direct contradiction, so lately I don't even try to understand. I guess that's why some schools have started to involve US Senators and such...

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Some on twitter are positing an interesting idea, after MD and RU, the ACC makes a play for UConn, UL, and Kentucky.

 

[ASweet3781]

Some on twitter are positing an interesting idea, after MD and RU, the ACC makes a play for UConn, UL, and Kentucky.

That idea, on surface, makes no sense.

 

[Silk City]

Rumors or no rumors, I'm just glad #BegHarder has become a relevant expression again

 

[UConnDan97]

Some on twitter are positing an interesting idea, after MD and RU, the ACC makes a play for UConn, UL, and Kentucky.

I can't even imagine a scenario where Kentucky leaves the comfort of the SEC for the ACC, but if this ever happened, that would be the greatest basketball conference in the history of the NCAA (even greater than the Big East at its height, which is really saying something)...

 

[nomar]

Nobody has ever left the SEC.