Malik Newman Update

[aceboon]

Youre not even in the same area code as what I argued here. If you were, you could understand that Im not opposed to any of our current players or recruits. But Im also not thrilled with Ali decommitt, the constant Turtle decommitt speculation, and our continued pursuit of "elite" guards when the well acknowledged need is for bigs. I do not want UConn to be any past, present or future version of Cal's UK.

Diamond Stone, Chance Comanche, and Steve Enoch(2x) have all visited within the past month, and I'm sure other names will pop up during the July evaluation period. This myth that the staff is neglecting to pursue big men just doesn't add up to what is actually happening in real life.

 

[intlzncster]

this board can be so damn weird at times. we get a committment from a kid that KO has been recruiting since his freshman year and we got talk of turning into UK and over recruiting kids, as if TSam/Cassell Jr/Purvis should be the only guards on the roster heading into 2015, and Purvis has the kind of talent where he can be gone in a year so we needed guards anyway. The staff is going after the same kind of kids they always pursued over the last 20 years, nothing has changed.

The sky absolutely must fall. It must.

 

[pj]

Newman and Stone would obviously be awesome, but we already have two solid guards and I really don't like the idea of recruiting over anybody just on principal. I don't care if other programs do it and recruits de/recommit and screw around all the time, I just don't want UConn to perpetuate that stuff (and I don't think it would do anything good for the long term image of the program). Just bring me Enoch and Comanche and Ill be happier than a pig in sh_t.

I've got news for you - exactly what people SPECULATE MIGHT happen with Turtle is what DID happen with Leon Tolksdorf - there was a mutual realization that Leon wasn't good enough to get playing time at UConn and for the mutual benefit of each, he transferred to a school where he could play, freeing up a much-needed scholarship for UConn. In Turtle's case, he's never set foot on campus, so switching colleges is a much less uprooting thing than transferring was for Leon. It's not a big deal to switch commitments, if you find a place that is better for you. And UConn is not at fault for laying out a kid's playing time situation to him, or for recruiting the best basketball players it can. UConn would be at fault if it knew Turtle was not going to play, and didn't tell him so that he could find a school where he can play.

As long as UConn provides the scholarship if he wants to come, then UConn has done nothing wrong. I hope Turtle finds the best school for him, and UConn gets the best player it can. If that's Turtle, terrific.

 

[caw]

If Turtle decommits, and I put more faith in 99s post than any 24-7 garbage, it would be another odd recruiting year. Not complaining about the kids we have gotten but there have been some interesting results recently.

Ali is an odd case because it seems like a great fit, and most analysts thought it was when he committed, when he blew up and probably even today. It will be interesting to see where he goes. He's also from NYC and said that he liked the fact UConn didn't promise time and he grew up a fan. Just odd how far off this one has gone.

Turtle is also an odd one (if he goes elsewhere). Ollie has recruited him forever and offered him when he was coming off a pretty serious injury. I doubt one AAU season would turn Ollie off of him. Maybe Turtle doesn't think he can compete at UConn but that in itself is odd.

I personally like what I have seen from Turtle in the past, and think he can be a very good college player, though he may take a few years.

 

[sdhusky]

Those 4 "blue chip" teams include KU (for reasons I can't understand)

Maybe the fact they've won the Big 12 every year for the past 10. Maybe because they had two guys on top on the NBA draft.

UCONN is in front of KS in NC, which is huge. But virtually every other measure - wins, conference championships, all americans, FF, TV exposure - KS is in front of UCONN.

Its an elite program and beating them for recruits is tough and a big deal.

 

[champs99and04]

Youre not even in the same area code as what I argued here. If you were, you could understand that Im not opposed to any of our current players or recruits. But Im also not thrilled with Ali decommitt, the constant Turtle decommitt speculation, and our continued pursuit of "elite" guards when the well acknowledged need is for bigs. I do not want UConn to be any past, present or future version of Cal's UK.

I've read this post twice and am still trying to figure out what you're arguing. I'm also not thrilled with the Ali decommitt, but to me, that's an example of a kid being a kid rather than any sort of statement on UConn's recruiting philosophy. In regards to the Turtle speculation, it's just that, speculation. Unless and until the kid makes it clear that he doesn't see himself at UConn, I am going to assume that he's part of our long-term plan here. If he has a problem with our continued pursuit of kids like Adams and Newman, then he can either fight them for minutes or find another place to play. Under neither of those scenarios would I fault either the kid or the program. If Ollie were to revoke an offer after a kid had committed, then that would be something I'd be uncomfortable with. If another kid on the roster was forced out due to over-recruiting, that's another thing that would bother me. But if there are scholarships to use, you use them on the best players and don't think twice.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Am I the only one uncomfortable with the near assumptions that Turtle will decommit? I mean, is there any basis for that outside of what's been speculated about on this board?

 

[champs99and04]

Am I the only one uncomfortable with the near assumptions that Turtle will decommit? I mean, is there any basis for that outside of what's been speculated about on this board?

Husky99 was the one that really broke the dam on this front, and he's considered one of the insiders on this board (in addition to being a mod), so I think speculation at this point is fair game. Additionally, a couple of the recruiting guys on 247 have changed their picks from UConn to Georgia, so clearly this is picking up steam elsewhere.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Husky99 was the one that really broke the dam on this front, and he's considered one of the insiders on this board (in addition to being a mod), so I think speculation at this point is fair game. Additionally, a couple of the recruiting guys on 247 have changed their picks from UConn to Georgia, so clearly this is picking up steam elsewhere.

My bad, I must've missed 99's post. I don 't put too much stock in 247, considering their crystal ball picks with Hamilton.

 

[husky99]

Husky99 was the one that really broke the dam on this front, and he's considered one of the insiders on this board (in addition to being a mod), so I think speculation at this point is fair game. Additionally, a couple of the recruiting guys on 247 have changed their picks from UConn to Georgia, so clearly this is picking up steam elsewhere.

What I did was a no no for this board and should not have posted anything about a recruit leaving

 

[champs99and04]

What I did was a no no for this board and should not have posted anything about a recruit leaving

Got it, I'll refrain from posting on this subject in the future.

 

[David 76]

Maybe the fact they've won the Big 12 every year for the past 10. Maybe because they had two guys on top on the NBA draft.

UCONN is in front of KS in NC, which is huge. But virtually every other measure - wins, conference championships, all americans, FF, TV exposure - KS is in front of UCONN.
Its an elite program and beating them for recruits is tough and a big deal.

If you could choose either program from this point going forward, who would you choose?

Beating them for a recruit is a big deal. But that is based on history and pedigree. They won more conference championships because they weren't in the Big East and we were. You think they dominate the Big 12 if we were in it? We dominated the best conference in the nation for almost 2 decades while they kept winning a lessor one.
We have had more players in the NBA than they have. If you want to argue they have had more top notch recruits--I agree. We have done more with less. They have done less with more.

I respect them. Great program. Greater history. They are not better than us.

 

[elduderino]

I've read this post twice and am still trying to figure out what you're arguing. I'm also not thrilled with the Ali decommitt, but to me, that's an example of a kid being a kid rather than any sort of statement on UConn's recruiting philosophy. In regards to the Turtle speculation, it's just that, speculation. Unless and until the kid makes it clear that he doesn't see himself at UConn, I am going to assume that he's part of our long-term plan here. If he has a problem with our continued pursuit of kids like Adams and Newman, then he can either fight them for minutes or find another place to play. Under neither of those scenarios would I fault either the kid or the program. If Ollie were to revoke an offer after a kid had committed, then that would be something I'd be uncomfortable with. If another kid on the roster was forced out due to over-recruiting, that's another thing that would bother me. But if there are scholarships to use, you use them on the best players and don't think twice.

Ha, youre right, I danced and my perspective so much so it would seem no one could actually pull anything intelligible out of it. I should have stated in my original post that I interpret "recruiting over" as having the intent to cause an already committed recruit, or in UK's case, an established player, to decommit, leave the program, or in the least desirable case, be forced out of a program by scholarship revocation. How we are recruiting now, I do not believe constitutes recruiting over, but my opinion doesn't matter, only those of our players and recruits does as they are the ones with the decision whether or not to maintain their participation with UConn. I used Cal's UK as example because I believe they are currently the only CBB franchise with the recruiting might to actually deploy this strategy not so much at a intrayear recruiting level, but in order to actively reshape their roster annually. I firmly believe that there was no way in hell Cal. would have let Kyle W or Ryan H eat anymore years of scholarship and as such they were pushed out of the program. A scholarship at UK is basically a 2yr contract offer, unless youre a local brought in mostly for fandom moral purposes, where if you haven't left the program for the NBA or already transferred to another program Cal will sit down and "discuss with you" your future, ie. we want your scholarship back, make it happen or we will for you. Also, because they recruit so successfully, they would never offer out 35 scholarships for 4 open spots. One of the only things I can actually appreciate about Cal is that hes made this model of active annual roster upgrading about as transparent as he possibly could have. As in, if a recruit commits there, it can be necessarily understood that it is very unlikely that they will be playing scholarship basketball at UK past their sophomore year. We are currently the hot chick on the dance floor and I fully understand that many of our scholarship offers occurred prior to the 'ship, but we have also upgraded our recruiting of a few backcourt guys which could leave our past commits feeling a bit short in the shorts, which I believe contributed to Ali leaving. Every school has to recruit based on need, compensate for player injuries, transfers etc. and of course the guys who show up at practice are the guys that win the playing time, but to me at least "recruiting over" requires the intent to manipulate recruits/players by active scholarship allocation manipulation. I don't believe we are doing this, but I also don't think we are doing all we could to ensure everybody involved knows we aren't either. Im also kind of disappointed more than a few posters seemingly advocate this sort of stuff, like the guy Fishy nuked yesterday. I guess winning just doesn't mean enough to me to want to be a fan of a program that would want to engage in the above.

 

[Go_Huskies]

Ha, youre right, I danced and my perspective so much so it would seem no one could actually pull anything intelligible out of it. I should have stated in my original post that I interpret "recruiting over" as having the intent to cause an already committed recruit, or in UK's case, an established player, to decommit, leave the program, or in the least desirable case, be forced out of a program by scholarship revocation. How we are recruiting now, I do not believe constitutes recruiting over, but my opinion doesn't matter, only those of our players and recruits does as they are the ones with the decision whether or not to maintain their participation with UConn. I used Cal's UK as example because I believe they are currently the only CBB franchise with the recruiting might to actually deploy this strategy not so much at a intrayear recruiting level, but in order to actively reshape their roster annually. I firmly believe that there was no way in hell Cal. would have let Kyle W or Ryan H eat anymore years of scholarship and as such they were pushed out of the program. A scholarship at UK is basically a 2yr contract offer, unless youre a local brought in mostly for fandom moral purposes, where if you haven't left the program for the NBA or already transferred to another program Cal will sit down and "discuss with you" your future, ie. we want your scholarship back, make it happen or we will for you. Also, because they recruit so successfully, they would never offer out 35 scholarships for 4 open spots. One of they only things I can actually appreciate about Cal is that hes made this model of active annual roster upgrading about as transparent as he possibly could have. As in, if a recruit commits there, it can be necessarily understood that it is very unlikely that they will be playing scholarship basketball at UK past their sophomore year. We are currently the hot chick on the dance floor and I fully understand that many of our scholarship offers occurred prior to the 'ship, but we have also upgraded our recruiting of a few backcourt guys which could leave our past commits feeling a bit short in the shorts, which I believe contributed to Ali leaving. Every school has to recruit based on need, compensate for player injuries, transfers etc. and of course the guys who show up at practice are the guys that win the playing time, but to me at least "recruiting over" requires the intent to manipulate recruits/players by active scholarship allocation manipulation. I don't believe we are doing this, but I also don't think we are doing all we could to ensure everybody involved knows we aren't either. Im also kind of disappointed more than a few posters seemingly advocate this sort of stuff, like the guy Fishy nuked yesterday. I guess winning just doesn't mean enough to me to want to be a fan of a program that would want to engage in the above.

I think understand what you are saying a commitment should mean just that a commitment.

The recruit should say commit to Temple and then call Georgetown asking for a spot. And then when georgetown gives him one - he commits and then starts calling UCONN for a spot.

Both the school and the recruit should be committed to each other.

BTW this is how we got Boatright. WV recruited another PG so he de-committed. So enough of the "I don't want a guy who doesn't want to compete" stuff.

I don't know what KO said to turtle but I will give KO the benefit of the doubt and that he was honest and explained to him that they are looking to take multiple guards.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Ha, youre right, I danced and my perspective so much so it would seem no one could actually pull anything intelligible out of it. I should have stated in my original post that I interpret "recruiting over" as having the intent to cause an already committed recruit, or in UK's case, an established player, to decommit, leave the program, or in the least desirable case, be forced out of a program by scholarship revocation. How we are recruiting now, I do not believe constitutes recruiting over, but my opinion doesn't matter, only those of our players and recruits does as they are the ones with the decision whether or not to maintain their participation with UConn. I used Cal's UK as example because I believe they are currently the only CBB franchise with the recruiting might to actually deploy this strategy not so much at a intrayear recruiting level, but in order to actively reshape their roster annually. I firmly believe that there was no way in hell Cal. would have let Kyle W or Ryan H eat anymore years of scholarship and as such they were pushed out of the program. A scholarship at UK is basically a 2yr contract offer, unless youre a local brought in mostly for fandom moral purposes, where if you haven't left the program for the NBA or already transferred to another program Cal will sit down and "discuss with you" your future, ie. we want your scholarship back, make it happen or we will for you. Also, because they recruit so successfully, they would never offer out 35 scholarships for 4 open spots. One of they only things I can actually appreciate about Cal is that hes made this model of active annual roster upgrading about as transparent as he possibly could have. As in, if a recruit commits there, it can be necessarily understood that it is very unlikely that they will be playing scholarship basketball at UK past their sophomore year. We are currently the hot chick on the dance floor and I fully understand that many of our scholarship offers occurred prior to the 'ship, but we have also upgraded our recruiting of a few backcourt guys which could leave our past commits feeling a bit short in the shorts, which I believe contributed to Ali leaving. Every school has to recruit based on need, compensate for player injuries, transfers etc. and of course the guys who show up at practice are the guys that win the playing time, but to me at least "recruiting over" requires the intent to manipulate recruits/players by active scholarship allocation manipulation. I don't believe we are doing this, but I also don't think we are doing all we could to ensure everybody involved knows we aren't either. Im also kind of disappointed more than a few posters seemingly advocate this sort of stuff, like the guy Fishy nuked yesterday. I guess winning just doesn't mean enough to me to want to be a fan of a program that would want to engage in the above.

Even after trying to get through all of this I'm still not sure what the point is that you're trying to make. College basketball coaches are constantly looking to sign the best players possible. If the net result of that is that a guy who thought he was going to be in the rotation ends up being squeezed out then that's sort of how life goes. He can (a) accept his reduced role and focus on being a great teammate; (b) bust his a s s to beat out those guys who are ahead of him; or (c) transfer some place else. This happens literally at every program. It has nothing to do with "active scholarship allocation manipulation" - whatever that means. The end result of the process might be that scholarships get moved around, but that's not the intent - it's just about getting the best possible players. I'm not sure of any college coach worth a damn who would say "Well, [#1 rated pg] is dying to come play for me, but I have two point guards already so I think I'll pass."

 

[elduderino]

Even after trying to get through all of this I'm still not sure what the point is that you're trying to make. College basketball coaches are constantly looking to sign the best players possible. If the net result of that is that a guy who thought he was going to be in the rotation ends up being squeezed out then that's sort of how life goes. He can (a) accept his reduced role and focus on being a great teammate; (b) bust his a s s to beat out those guys who are ahead of him; or (c) transfer some place else. This happens literally at every program. It has nothing to do with "active scholarship allocation manipulation" - whatever that means. The end result of the process might be that scholarships get moved around, but that's not the intent - it's just about getting the best possible players. I'm not sure of any college coach worth a damn who would say "Well, [#1 rated pg] is dying to come play for me, but I have two point guards already so I think I'll pass."

If youre comfortable pulling a committed recruit's or current team member's scholarship/offer to chase what may be a better player that's fine, I'm not. Personally I cant fathom being 10-toes-in as a one way street and it certainly wouldn't allow a player to fight for playing time in practice if the program is yelling NEXT all the time, discarding guys who many not be allstars on arrival or in the anticipated timeframe. UConn is still a school right? Also, you don't seem to have realized that your option (c) per my post would be a forced imposition. I am not talking about any mutual parting of the ways.

 

[sdhusky]

I respect them. Great program. Greater history. They are not better than us.

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.

Better recruits. More FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc

Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC, what metric is KS behind UCONN?

 

[minidarren]

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.

Better recruits. More FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc

Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC, what metric is KS behind UCONN?

% of National Championships won?

 

[minidarren]

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.

Better recruits. More FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc

Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC, what metric is KS behind UCONN?

Only team to ever lose to Syracuse in a National Championship game?

 

[elduderino]

Only team to ever lose to Syracuse in a National Championship game?

Haha. In all seriousness, did you ever actually construct the noose when UConn hired Pasqualoni?

 

[David 76]

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.h

Better recruits. Morie FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc
A
Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC

You ignored my question. Who would you pick?

NCs
Recent NCs
Coach
PLAYERS IN THE NBA
Better player development
Better University

KU has a better history that is all

 

[pj]

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.

Better recruits. More FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc

Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC, what metric is KS behind UCONN?

1 Ollie for UConn, 0 Ollies for Kansas.

 

[champs99and04]

KS is a better program. Its just a fact.

Better recruits. More FF. NBA players. HOF coaches. Wins. Conference wins. etc

Besides 3 NC vs. 4 NC, what metric is KS behind UCONN?

They have more history than us, no question. On the pantheon of all-time great college basketball programs, they're at the very least tied with us, and probably ahead. But in the here and now, it's tough to make the case that they're the better program when we've got them beat 4 to 1 in titles in the last 25 years.

 

[sdhusky]

They have more history than us, no question. On the pantheon of all-time great college basketball programs, they're at the very least tied with us, and probably ahead. But in the here and now, it's tough to make the case that they're the better program when we've got them beat 4 to 1 in titles in the last 25 years.

And over the last 25, they have more wins. More conference championships. More All Americans, More FF's.

 

[WestHartHusk]

And over the last 25, they have more wins. More conference championships. More All Americans, More FF's.

So you defend UCONN on a Syracuse board and Kansas on a UCONN board...what is your deal?

And about your metrics: for the past 25 years they have been playing in the damn Big 12 so wins and conference championship don't mean a damn thing to me. And the hero worship that you and others share about Kansas leads to the All-Americans. So that leaves their FF's to our championships.

If you want to argue about the Dust Bowl era I suppose you might have a case, but even then we were at the beach while their land blew it's way to the Rockies.