Lowering the Basket

[Sonny44]

With all the speculation on the prosed rule changes I just felt that someone had to start this thread so I did. I'll start by saying that lowering the basket for WCBB would be a travesty. I hate dunks anyway.

Have fun with it!

 

[DogWarden]

"When James Naismith invented the game, it was essentially to give track athletes a way to stay in shape while confined indoors during the harsh New England winters. However, the average height of those athletes was about 5'6" -- nowhere near the height (or reach, for that matter) of the athletes we have today. Obviously, Naismith those athletes of yesteryear were not thinking of dunking the ball." (Earl Monroe, former N.B.A. player).

Lowering the basket will turn WBB into the "slam dunk" circus as MBB. What I find most enjoyable about WBB is play-making.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Put the hoop in the floor thereby enabling the dunk challenged.

 

[OneTrickPony]

I'd very likely go back to men's basketball if the basket were lowered...

 

[VAMike23]

I think that the best arguments against it are practical ones. Implementing lower rims in a world of mostly fixed 10' rims is a very big challenge. Schools could do it with some difficulty but all those other random hoops out there at 10' are not likely to change soon unless there are multiple courts at the same site, where 1 (or more) could be lowered. And at competitive levels, you'd need to stay with the shorter rims consistently in order to keep your shooting touch intact.

Just a messy proposition overall.

But on the merits, I actually agree with Geno that a slightly lower rim would be a good thing for the womens game in the long term. Notice I said slightly; I'm not itching for a dunkfest, though there would certainly be more of those. It would make for better finishing around the basket and IMHO is no more a concession than many other widely accepted differences that exist between men's and women's versions in other sports.

[Flame suit at the ready.]

 

[meyers7]

I think that the best arguments against it are practical ones. Implementing lower rims in a world of mostly fixed 10' rims is a very big challenge. Schools could do it with some difficulty but all those other random hoops out there at 10' are not likely to change soon unless there are multiple courts at the same site, where 1 (or more) could be lowered. And at competitive levels, you'd need to stay with the shorter rims consistently in order to keep your shooting touch intact.

Agree. Don't see them building men's courts and women's courts. Make more Title IX problems.

But on the merits, I actually agree with Geno that a slightly lower rim would be a good thing for the womens game in the long term. Notice I said slightly; I'm not itching for a dunkfest, though there would certainly be more of those. It would make for better finishing around the basket and IMHO is no more a concession than many other widely accepted differences that exist between men's and women's versions in other sports.

Agree it probably would be better. Say 6 inches or so??

p.s. not advocating it, and it'll never happen, but I think it would probably make it better...over time. It would take quite awhile for the adjustment.

 

[Icebear]

 

[alexrgct]

For the love of God, no. That's my vote.

 

[ochoopsfan]

I agree, no change. Think of every player who has only practiced and worked on
their shots at a 10' rim. All of their arcs, angles, shot releases will all be off at a different height.
I like good passing and shooting, not slam dunks.

 

[Icebear]

Making the women's game more like the men's game may gain a few fans from the guys but I would expect it would lose more current fans out the back door as OTP's comment implies.

 

[easttexastrash]

Please don't insult women athletes by lowering the rims. I don't need another reason to defend WBB to my sexist co-workers.

 

[connboy77]

Add me to the list of people against lowering the basket. I'm with easttexastrash when the poster states that it would be an insult to women athletes.

 

[Kibitzer]

Bad enough women have a smaller ball. It would not only be further insulting to women to lower the rim but with jillions of hoops at 10' worldwide, such a change would be logistically, financially, and artistically impossible.

This dopey change, if effected, could set a terrible precedent for other sports. Would lower hurdles or shorter swmming pools be next?

And if some authority (NCAA? Olympic Committee?) wanted to do something (less costly but equally stupid) to rev up wbb scoring, why not simply make the hoop bigger? Instead of 18", and go to 20" circumference. Or 24". or even 36".

The rim-lowering idea is just plain nutty!

 

[Zorro]

Worst idea in a long, long time.

 

[Icebear]

And if some authority (NCAA? Olympic Committee?) wanted to do something (less costly but equally stupid) to rev up wbb scoring, why not simply make the hoop bigger? Instead of 18", and go to 20" circumference. Or 24". or even 36".

The rim-lowering idea is just plain nutty!

I think a one meter hoop would be just fine for international play.

 

[VAMike23]

To those who feel the smaller ball is, and a lower rim would be, an "insult": why do you feel this way?

I have never heard any female player--college or pro--express a desire to use the men's ball, nor have I heard them say they feel insulted by using the women's ball. And there have been times when players are directly questioned by reporters to comment on the game itself. Do people think the players feel demeaned but just haven't said anything about it because 'it is what it is' and/or they're just used to it by now? If so, I'd like to point out that lots of people in this world complain about the status quo, things they are used to dealing with, even if these things seem intractable. And there's nothing intractable about the choice of basketballs used in the women's game. Switching to the men's ball would be easy. (Unlike switching to lower rims.)

RE: lower rims --- Do female volleyball players feel insulted using lower nets? Do LPGA players feel insulted using shorter tees?

Bad enough women have a smaller ball.

Would lower hurdles or shorter swmming pools be next?

The rim-lowering idea is just plain nutty!

Hmmmm.....I guess since the women's 100m hurdles are already nine inches lower than the men's 110m hurdles (33" vs. 42") I guess you were referring to the prospect of lowering the women's hurdles even further?

Having a desire to 'protect the sanctity' of the women's game as it exists today by not changing the rim height is a perfectly fine. But I don't get where people feel that any potential change or any existing asymmetry whatsoever between men's and women's sporting events is ipso facto "insulting" to female athletes, or to women in general. That's just nutty!

 

[VAMike23]

Agree. Don't see them building men's courts and women's courts. Make more Title IX problems.


Agree it probably would be better. Say 6 inches or so??

p.s. not advocating it, and it'll never happen, but I think it would probably make it better...over time. It would take quite awhile for the adjustment.

6" sounds like a reasonable starting point for experimentation (actually, didn't Geno try this experiment already? I've forgotten). But who knows. Maybe at that height, every shot would suddenly be a dunk and the whole game would turn into one big Sportcenter highlight reel!! (Sarcasm off.)

 

[vtcwbuff]

Raise the men's rim to 12' instead.

 

[Kibitzer]

VAMike your points are well made and I readily concede the one about the height of the hurdles. More important, thanks for italicizing whatsoever in your comment; that modifier helps put the discussion into perspective.

Over the past few decades women have made remarkable strides in such fields as medicine, law and politics, where physical skills count for little, if anything. The chalenges are understandably greater for women aspiring to careers as firefighters, police officers, members of building trades, or in many sections of our armed forces.

So let the discussion continue, with no closed minds whatsoever.

 

[Olde Coach]

With all the speculation on the prosed rule changes I just felt that someone had to start this thread so I did. I'll start by saying that lowering the basket for WCBB would be a travesty. I hate dunks anyway.

Have fun with it!

I'll support lowering the basket only after they lower the water level for girls in the swimming pools.

Well --- on second thought --- I will never support lowering the basket.

 

[Icebear]

Raise the men's rim to 12' instead.

A tremendous idea since it is the men who have outgrown the way the game has been played in the past.

 

[VAMike23]

Or 11 ft......

 

[meyers7]

I have never heard any female player--college or pro--express a desire to use the men's ball, nor have I heard them say they feel insulted by using the women's ball. ...........And there's nothing intractable about the choice of basketballs used in the women's game. Switching to the men's ball would be easy.

Actually I do believe I read an article where DT said she prefers the men's ball. They use the same ball Internationally (USA Basketball - Olympics and such) and I assume (though I'm not sure) that since most European leagues play under FIBA rules, they also use the men's ball.

I think she said playing pickup with boys all those years growing up, she always played with the men's ball. I really see no reason why they couldn't use one size in NCAA and WNBA.

an the men's 110m hurdles (33" vs. 42") hmmmm, I guess you were referring to the prospect of lowering the women's hurdles even further?

I was gonna say, but you beat me to it.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Not really sure what the backboard dynamics at every arena around the country is, but there are some reasonably cheap backboard products that advertise that "6-year-olds can lower the basket to 6 feet in under 60 seconds," so I'm assuming that if the kid next door to me can do it, even very dysfunctional schools can figure out how to lower the basket 6 inches or so. Or maybe the kid next door to me can hire herself out as a consultant. The equipment has evolved from those nailed up peach baskets.

Considering all the "Oh, horror" comments above that include real stretches or incorrect examples (as in the hurdles remark) of what could happen to women's sports, it appears everyone is falling all over themselves to want to cement WCBB as it is, even though again the mantra among the leaders is that things need to change.

Yeah, I know most have this image of women suddenly turning into King Kong hoop smashers and beating on their chests in celebration, but in reality it will be an artistic swoop-in with a quick-flick put down. Also will likely increase the shooting percentage on layups as defenders can't be as sure what the ball-handler will do when she drives in. And is it more insulting to have sports fans saying that women with their smaller b-balls still can't dunk, or to give them a physically proportionate way to have the same chance as the guys?

In the Schuey thread I noted a long list of sports that we accept significantly different rules and conditions for the women: tennis, hockey, lacrosse, gymnastics, baseball\softball, much of track and XC, even basketball, and on and on for almost everything except maybe soccer. So what we are saying? Serena, you only played two sets. How wussy! Jenny, when are you going to learn to throw overhand, you lesser athlete, you? Tina, you're using a small ball. C'mon, man up!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Put the hoop in the floor thereby enabling the dunk challenged.

It deserves a new name - soccer!