love the C's draft

[tzznandrew]

How does that work? Can you choose when you want to exercise the option on the pick?

If the pick 9-30 in 2019, the C's get the pick, no choice.
If it's 1-8, they wait until 2020. In 2020, if it's is 7-30, they get the pick. If not, they'll get the 2021 no matter what.

 

[Excalibur]

Danny Ainge Draft History

It's sorta amazing the dude still has a job.

That history is basically league-average when you consider draft position. Not great, but not as terrible as it's being framed.

 

[tzznandrew]

Davis was projected as a lottery in every mock draft. Why trade him for a lottery protected pick 3 years from now?

Clearly they didn't like him, and many other teams didn't either.

The Celtics now have 3 first round draft picks in 2019. I'm sure it's part of Ainge's long term plan to trade them for something, anything.

Sadly, that really hasn't worked out in a while, given how many assets they have.

What does the 2017 draft look like? Anyone know? Let's hope for the Nets to suck again (they should) and maybe get another Top-3 pick in a better draft.

 

[Matrim55]

What does the 2017 draft look like? Anyone know? Let's hope for the Nets to suck again (they should) and maybe get another Top-3 pick in a better draft.

Stacked. The top 2 guys are Josh Jackson (Kansas), who's a McGrady-type of wing who can score/defend/pass the hell out of the ball, and Giles (Duke), a big PF (6-11 w/ a 7-3 wingspan) who has range to 18 feet and is a monster offensive rebounder. Neither is as good as Simmons, but both are pretty close to sure things (tho Giles has a worrisome injury history).

Beyond them it's going to be filled with big PGs and big wings.

Re: the Celtics draft itself, I live in Berkeley so I saw Brown in person a bunch. At worst he'll be a bigger, stronger, more explosive Crowder on the defensive end -- a guy who can guard 1-through-4 and just strangle teams to death. He also has a knack for coming up with tough rebounds through, obviously, his athleticism, but also through his effort. He has a real motor, and multiple first-team all-defensive nods in his future.

What he's not -- and I think everybody knows this -- is a shot-maker. He may eventually develop into an acceptable spot-up 3-point shooter, and he'll finish around the rim, but he's never going to be a guy who can be the focal point of any offense.

That's ok, though, because I think his presence makes Crowder expendable/a usable asset in trades that pop up during the season. Ainge has a great track record with that, so while last night was disappointing, I think that he still has some real flexibility moving forward. I half expect Cousins to be in green come February.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't know why people look at that list and think Ainge didn't do well. I would say 2003 and 2011 are the only two where you can say they were bad, and 2003 he got Perkins at 27, while in 2011 the pick was at 25, not usually a great place to find talent.

Sure, he isn't Buford and the Spurs, but I think he's found good talent there.

2003: Marcus Banks and Kendrik Perkins. Not great, although I revise this because Perkins at 27 played in the league a long time. Not a terrible pick there.
2004: Jefferson, West, and Allen were all great picks for their draft position.
2005: Green was never great, but at the 18th pick? He played this year. 9 players ahead of him did not. And only a few selected after him were any better than him. Not a bad pick at 18.
2006: Rajon Rondo at 21. That's a great great pick.
2007: Green (but traded for Allen)
2008: J.R. Giddens. At 30, what are you going to do? Dragic and DeAndre Jordan were second rounders, but selecting at 30 is always a crapshoot.
2009: Didn't have a first rounder
2010: Avery Bradley at 19. I think that's a damn good pick in that place.
2011: Traded the 25th pick for JaJuan Johnson and a future second rounder. Forgettable. Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Chandler Parsons, and some other rotation players were still on the board. I'd say this is the second round where the selections were bad.
2012: Sully at 21 and Melo at 22. One great pick from the 2os, and one bad one. Still, I'd say this was a good draft given their position.
2013: Olynyk. Jury is out, and they traded for him, so you can't really say they passed on Giannis, who is the only one after Olynyk that is definitely better than him (jury is out on Schröder and Deng)
2014: Marcus Smart and James Young. Too early to say much about this. Doesn't look great, though.
2015: Rozier and Hunter. Didn't love these picks when they happened, but not a great place to be selecting. Still too early to evaluate.

 

[BUConn10]

Ainge is too timid to make any trade that he doesn't percieve as bring completely one sided towards the Celtics. He sat on the nets pick which ended up being not worth much. He should have known there's no way the NBA would allow the Lakers to draft after thE C's.

 

[HuskiesU]

Celtics fans need to stop with this nonsense the Bulls have the decided to use Butler to build around he's their centerpiece on the team. He's signed to a team friendly contact and both him and the team like each other

Im not even a Celtics fan in just a fan of basketball and players. Nobody said that its going to happen just a good fit for jimmy Butler to join a grwat coach culture and have alot of players to work with.

 

[bmo22]

Ainge is too timid to make any trade that he doesn't percieve as bring completely one sided towards the Celtics. He sat on the nets pick which ended up being not worth much. He should have known there's no way the NBA would allow the Lakers to draft after thE C's.

I'm a Celtics fan and I've been pretty happy with his trading philosophy. The Garnett and Allen trades in 2007 speak for themselves. Trading Garnett and Pierce to the Nets for all of those picks was a no brainier. The Nets had one year to make that work and are a dumpster fire now. Could have been the other way around. The other trades Ainge has made weren't blockbusters but have them in a good position moving forward while still fielding a decent team.

When you say he's too timid are you referring to last night exclusively? Bottom line is it was a terrible draft class after the top two picks and he was holding number three. No team was giving away an established star or foundational piece for the 2016 picks Ainge had in his pocket. I don't blame him for not biting on Noel who has proven to be an average player. Maybe they'll catch lightning in a bottle with Brown in a few years. They may end up with no. 1 next year courtesy of the Nets trade.

Ainge's draft selections haven't been the best over the years (definitely not bad though) but his trading strategy has been great IMO.

 

[methodology]

Im not even a Celtics fan in just a fan of basketball and players. Nobody said that its going to happen just a good fit for jimmy Butler to join a grwat coach culture and have alot of players to work with.

And the Twolves are a better fit yet 95% of the talk on this site regarding Butler has been the Celts need to get him and are going after him. Thibs (coach of the twolves) is arguably a better coach than Stevens and him and Butler have a great relationship. That trade didnt happen last night either.

Once Rose was traded that pipe dream went out the window. It was never really even a possibility to begin with.

 

[Matrim55]

I don't blame him for not biting on Noel who has proven to be an average player. Maybe they'll catch lightning in a bottle with Brown in a few years. They may end up with no. 1 next year courtesy of the Nets trade.

Ainge's draft selections haven't been the best over the years (definitely not bad though) but his trading strategy has been great IMO.

I think you underrate Noel, but the overall picture you paint is accurate. There's also this bit of logic from CelticsBlog (emphasis mine):

However, there's ESPN's Marc Stein's reported Godfather offer of Nerlens Noel,Robert Covington, and picks #24 and #26 for the third pick. That sounds like a king's ransom and very similar to Ainge's offer to the Hornets last year for the opportunity to draft Justise Winslow. Either AB and/or Crowder were also part of that deal or Danny just couldn't see the team using all those players and picks. There's also Noel's impending restricted free agency. Philadelphia has a log jam in the front court, and it's possible that Noel could be available later this summer, before the trade deadline, or in a year.

 

[JSM1970]

Unless they wanted Dunn why not do that deal? Instead they get a guy who can't shoot and had no handle

I think you underrate Noel, but the overall picture you paint is accurate. There's also this bit of logic from CelticsBlog (emphasis mine):

However, there's ESPN's Marc Stein's reported Godfather offer of Nerlens Noel,Robert Covington, and picks #24 and #26 for the third pick. That sounds like a king's ransom and very similar to Ainge's offer to the Hornets last year for the opportunity to draft Justise Winslow. Either AB and/or Crowder were also part of that deal or Danny just couldn't see the team using all those players and picks. There's also Noel's impending restricted free agency. Philadelphia has a log jam in the front court, and it's possible that Noel could be available later this summer, before the trade deadline, or in a year.

 

[bmo22]

Unless they wanted Dunn why not do that deal? Instead they get a guy who can't shoot and had no handle

The picks in that trade offer were close to meaningless. The Celtics already had 8 picks and the draft class was weak. They were looking to dump picks and pick up a veteran who could step in as a primary scorer. Noel didn't fit what they were looking for, so they took a flyer on Brown.

 

[UConnStats]

Alright well Boston fans were less than pleased as well. You would only have to check Twitter to know that. So, in reality, everyone knows less that sh.it. Until Ainge is proven right or wrong this draft just looks like another missed opportunity to lure in big players via trades with all those picks. There's no doubt that the C's need to make a splash this off season otherwise they're just competing to be 2nd or 3rd in the east. Cleveland is miles ahead of anyone else in this conference.

Yeah it's pretty brutal. People should be thankful they aren't going the Nets and now Knicks route of acquiring big names that still won't get you past Cleveland. Selling the future for a present that isn't quite good enough is a mistake in the long run.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know why people look at that list and think Ainge didn't do well. I would say 2003 and 2011 are the only two where you can say they were bad, and 2003 he got Perkins at 27, while in 2011 the pick was at 25, not usually a great place to find talent.

Sure, he isn't Buford and the Spurs, but I think he's found good talent there.

2003: Marcus Banks and Kendrik Perkins. Not great, although I revise this because Perkins at 27 played in the league a long time. Not a terrible pick there.
2004: Jefferson, West, and Allen were all great picks for their draft position.
2005: Green was never great, but at the 18th pick? He played this year. 9 players ahead of him did not. And only a few selected after him were any better than him. Not a bad pick at 18.
2006: Rajon Rondo at 21. That's a great great pick.
2007: Green (but traded for Allen)
2008: J.R. Giddens. At 30, what are you going to do? Dragic and DeAndre Jordan were second rounders, but selecting at 30 is always a crapshoot.
2009: Didn't have a first rounder
2010: Avery Bradley at 19. I think that's a damn good pick in that place.
2011: Traded the 25th pick for JaJuan Johnson and a future second rounder. Forgettable. Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Chandler Parsons, and some other rotation players were still on the board. I'd say this is the second round where the selections were bad.
2012: Sully at 21 and Melo at 22. One great pick from the 2os, and one bad one. Still, I'd say this was a good draft given their position.
2013: Olynyk. Jury is out, and they traded for him, so you can't really say they passed on Giannis, who is the only one after Olynyk that is definitely better than him (jury is out on Schröder and Deng)
2014: Marcus Smart and James Young. Too early to say much about this. Doesn't look great, though.
2015: Rozier and Hunter. Didn't love these picks when they happened, but not a great place to be selecting. Still too early to evaluate.

Agreed, but I couldn't be bothered to go through the exercise of writing it out. Nice work.

 

[bmo22]

I think you underrate Noel, but the overall picture you paint is accurate. There's also this bit of logic from CelticsBlog (emphasis mine):

However, there's ESPN's Marc Stein's reported Godfather offer of Nerlens Noel,Robert Covington, and picks #24 and #26 for the third pick. That sounds like a king's ransom and very similar to Ainge's offer to the Hornets last year for the opportunity to draft Justise Winslow. Either AB and/or Crowder were also part of that deal or Danny just couldn't see the team using all those players and picks. There's also Noel's impending restricted free agency. Philadelphia has a log jam in the front court, and it's possible that Noel could be available later this summer, before the trade deadline, or in a year.

Maybe I should have said "average starter". Didn't mean that he sucks but don't think he'll be great either. The Celtics have a lot of solid players on the roster already, but I think Ainge was looking for a veteran to take on a lead scoring role. Noel isn't that guy so they opted to take a guy who can be a building block in a few years. Wouldn't mind if they sign Noel in free agency but the C's also need to get rid of some players.

 

[TasteofUConn]

How many years has he been doing it? 12? Didn't he already win a championship with a team he put together? No more than 11 other GMs can say that in the last dozen years, right? So he's not Isiah Thomas bad (I know he was not a GM).

 

[champs99and04]

I think Ainge is good, but he deserves to take some heat for some of his draft picks in recent years. Rozier was a reach last year at 16, and in his (albeit brief) minutes this season he was a disaster. James Young looks like a swing and a miss. Olynk at 13 is fine. Melo is a miss. Sullinger on the surface is good at 21 but I'm not sure he's a guy who helps you win basketball games. Jajuan Johnson was a miss. Jaylen Brown carries a lot of red flags.

So you're going back to Avery Bradley to find the last impact player Ainge drafted (which was great value). Don't get me wrong, it's hard to find quality players in the draft, but if you're going to build that way you need to come home with more than what they've gotten.

 

[bballgrda]

Alright well Boston fans were less than pleased as well. You would only have to check Twitter to know that. So, in reality, everyone knows less that sh.it. Until Ainge is proven right or wrong this draft just looks like another missed opportunity to lure in big players via trades with all those picks. There's no doubt that the C's need to make a splash this off season otherwise they're just competing to be 2nd or 3rd in the east. Cleveland is miles ahead of anyone else in this conference.

No sh.it!

 

[gtcam]

You're probably the only one. The media is crucifying Ainge.

I've seen a lot of accolades
Jackson was an absolute steal - he lit it up at the combines and scored high in nearly every area
Zizac is probably the 2nd best international player behind Bender
Brown was consensus the 3rd best player/athlete in the draft and can score from the wing - something the Cs need bad
The French kid should be a brute underneath
Bentil is a 1st round talent and can shoot the ball
Nader - the only real ?

 

[intlzncster]

Brown was consensus the 3rd best player/athlete in the draft and can score from the wing - something the Cs need bad

'Athlete' perhaps, but definitely not 3rd best 'player'.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

I don't know why people look at that list and think Ainge didn't do well. I would say 2003 and 2011 are the only two where you can say they were bad, and 2003 he got Perkins at 27, while in 2011 the pick was at 25, not usually a great place to find talent.

Sure, he isn't Buford and the Spurs, but I think he's found good talent there.

2003: Marcus Banks and Kendrik Perkins. Not great, although I revise this because Perkins at 27 played in the league a long time. Not a terrible pick there.
2004: Jefferson, West, and Allen were all great picks for their draft position.
2005: Green was never great, but at the 18th pick? He played this year. 9 players ahead of him did not. And only a few selected after him were any better than him. Not a bad pick at 18.
2006: Rajon Rondo at 21. That's a great great pick.
2007: Green (but traded for Allen)
2008: J.R. Giddens. At 30, what are you going to do? Dragic and DeAndre Jordan were second rounders, but selecting at 30 is always a crapshoot.
2009: Didn't have a first rounder
2010: Avery Bradley at 19. I think that's a damn good pick in that place.
2011: Traded the 25th pick for JaJuan Johnson and a future second rounder. Forgettable. Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Chandler Parsons, and some other rotation players were still on the board. I'd say this is the second round where the selections were bad.
2012: Sully at 21 and Melo at 22. One great pick from the 2os, and one bad one. Still, I'd say this was a good draft given their position.
2013: Olynyk. Jury is out, and they traded for him, so you can't really say they passed on Giannis, who is the only one after Olynyk that is definitely better than him (jury is out on Schröder and Deng)
2014: Marcus Smart and James Young. Too early to say much about this. Doesn't look great, though.
2015: Rozier and Hunter. Didn't love these picks when they happened, but not a great place to be selecting. Still too early to evaluate.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Celts draft was mediocre, 100% dependent on how JBrown turns out. If he's a starter in a year it's a B, future all-star an A and role player a C.

What the pundits are really & fairly giving the Celtics low grades for is the strategy of compiling many draft picks convertible into an established starter or better. As others have said & the Charlotte trade clearly illustrates teams did not value first rounders outside of 1-2 in this draft. But even us amateurs on the boneyard (see NBA draft thread) concluded that the Noel trade sucked b/c
a. Noel is below average,
b. The late first round picks were worthless albatrosses, 2nd rounders are better in a thin draft.

So only IF Ainge had stuck to a failing strategy and traded too much for Noel or Butler (like Orlando did for Ibaka) would the C's draft grade be F. I say C+ for fulfilling positional need and star odds with JBrown but for this year at least the strategy of having multiple picks to trade for a player or up/down in draft was an abject failure.

I simply think Ainge's timing was off and they had multiple first rounders years too early. With coming salary cap 20MM jump there will gradually be many overpaid free agents and in the future first round picks at locked in at low salaries will be at a premium (exactly like MLB now). In NBA this is 1-3 years away and so both the Celtics 2016 draft and their rebuilding timeline are off. I think they will gradually accept and embrace the fact that it'll take until 19-20ish to build a championship contender, but they can't sell or tell that to their fans yet. Good news is b/c of Nets and other trades they can remain a competitive playoff team while also rebuilding and still hold out a slim hope of hitting free agent lottery & landing a Durant superstar. Likewise hear if you can't get Durant I'd keep patience and powder (don't settle for Al Horford or similar) for years 2+ of new cap environment where fewer teams have $$ to chase the big stars.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

2011: Traded the 25th pick for JaJuan Johnson and a future second rounder. Forgettable. Jimmy Butler, Isaiah Thomas, Chandler Parsons, and some other rotation players were still on the board. I'd say this is the second round where the selections were bad.
2012: Sully at 21 and Melo at 22. One great pick from the 2os, and one bad one. Still, I'd say this was a good draft given their position.
2013: Olynyk. Jury is out, and they traded for him, so you can't really say they passed on Giannis, who is the only one after Olynyk that is definitely better than him (jury is out on Schröder and Deng)
2014: Marcus Smart and James Young. Too early to say much about this. Doesn't look great, though.
2015: Rozier and Hunter. Didn't love these picks when they happened, but not a great place to be selecting. Still too early to evaluate.[/QUOTE]

Got to take exception. Danny has been pretty good on trades but not so good on drafts. For virtually none of the picks above have the player selected turned out to develop into more than expected based on draft position.

Just looking at the last several drafts, I think Rozier has proved to be a solid defender and rebounder at guard, but is not a great ball handler and is limited in getting to the hoop and in creating for others. I doubt Hunter will come to the top eight in the rotation. The best pick, with the most potential to exceed draft position, is Mickey. He could end up as a starting PF for years.

Young is a bust. All left hand, can't shoot under pressure, and not a hard worker. Marcus Smart is good, but he was a 6, he should be. Olynyk - 'nuff said. Sully has been decent but will always be limited to what he is - big body rebounder with short arms, average shooter, and a bad back. Don't get me started on Fab Melo. J. Johnson was a worse player than Brooks who was the original pick, and others were available.

Point is, you've got to be able to see what a player can become, not just what they are. Danny doesn't do this very well. Now, after they've been in the NBA for a few years he does see the development, and his trades show it. I would have liked Richardson at 16 - he's going to be really good in 2 years.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

That said, I love the Demetrius Jackson pick, and Ben Bentil has a real chance to be in the rotation as a 3/4 at 6'9".

 

[TheDoggPound]

I like Brown, Yabu and DJackson the others ehh