Louisville trying to force UConn's and Rutger's hands at upcoming meeting

[weyuo]

[Why not give ND an ultimatum? Put it to ND that they are either in the BE with all sports, including football, or they are out completely./QUOTE]

All that would do is push ND closer to signing with either the ACC or Big 10+. The best way to entice ND into joining in football would be to have the football schools secede from the Big East and form a new conference. Add regional schools that if not immediately competitive will be within a decade (UMass and Temple come to mind but there are others I'm sure). Add Navy. Work on Pitt and Syracuse to rethink their positions. Talk to Maryland and Penn St about forming a new league. Tell ND they can have their precious NBC TV contract till it runs out in 2015(I believe that's when it runs out) but after that they come under the umbrella of whatever conference network package the new league can attract.

Start a new league. Invite ND to be a charter member. Make the league financially attractive by adding regional teams that are competitive(or are committed to be within the next few years) and are located in enough TV markets that saturation of the North East is achievable. That's how you pry Notre Dame off the fence and into your corner.

 

[RS9999X]

Herbst handled it properly up to now.

Herbst quieted the boo birds. She was proactive. Now it's time to get on with BE business or run the risk of looking like that shameless Ho Missouri.

Boise or bust!

Navy, Air Force, and ECU are added. WVU leaves. Nova upgrades. Boise is added. TCU leaves. Houston and UCF are added.

ND/Big East are in a BCS AQ playoff with the MAC.

It's all good.

 

[gars44]

But you're posting as if we've been trying to get into a bigger conference, actively, for years. We've been trying for two friggin weeks. Two weeks. To get a conference to act on a hundred years decision.

Is it possible that Herbst shot her mouth off prematurely and was easily played. Sure, it's possible. Anything is possible. I tend not to criticize people for being idiots before I'm sure they are, but hey -- I guess that's just me. It works for coaches too. Is it safe for you to conclude she knows nothing more of the ACC's short and intermediate term plans than you do? (Hint -- that was a rhetorical question.) I know this is close to existential to UConn sports, but you and others are going to have to wait to see what happens to know what has been happening.

That having been said, the right thing to do is to move forward with rebuilding the Big East even if we are fairly certain we won't be a part of it for very long. It is, at worst, a safety net, and we owe it to our partners. It will be interesting to see what type of an exit penalty we agree to.

Maybe Susan did jump the gun. She seems to be the type of person who is used to the feel of success. She probably has come to expect that if she puts her mind and effort to a project she is going to get her way. She is not accustomed to the word, "no." (She is "the most interesting woman in the world.") If she miscalculated this time, I'll give her a pass. I'll bet she re-evaluates quickly and gets us to the right place.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I don't believe that she is going hat in hand to this meeting. One truth is that hte conference does need some provisional government and history has demonstrated that the leadership we've had is not up to the task.

We also have not been begging. I realize that there is a poster here who for more than a year now has been attempting to gain attention by posting incessantly about the value of markets, believing that the upcoming television contract Marinatto was boasting about would be the ultimate evidence to vindicate him (even though many of us believed that the contract would never materialize) and now he irrationally is viewing UConn's realization that the BE has too limited of a future to be more than a temporary home as some personal attack on him.

If we do get an invitation to the ACC or B1G, it won't happen immediately and we will need to maintain a home for at least a few years. One thing that needs to be addressed (which is why having all oif the presidents and only the presidents at this meeting is necessary) is what the remaining conference membership sees as the best course of action. I am expecting some announcement Sunday evening along the lines of: "The narcotics trade will ber allowed but controlled. don Corleone will provide protction, and ther we have our peace.".

I imagine that Louisville's stance is to maintain an eastern presence (UConn amd Rutgers) while also ensuring stability (B-12). If there is some legitimate show of solidarity among the BE football programs, this could be sufficient leverage to coax the B-12 into expanding to 16. I'm guessing that UL's best case scenario at the moment is B-12 membership with UConn and Rutgers and they see this as the best way to get there.

If the Temple rumors are true (I believe to some extent they can be but I would be surprised if the announcement comes before some resolution on who is and is not going to the B-12 is reached) this is a very good sign. It tells me that Marinatto (with his ridiculous ideas, such as looking solely at football only members as an answer) has basically been removed from power already. I can't see this becoming official until after the catholic members have some assurances on remaining football membership as adding Temple for all sports will not be something an all catholic athletic conference would want.

 

[TRest]

TCU finished #2 in the country last year. Your post is a FAIL.

Do we get to claim TCU's BCS finish to bolster the BE's BCS standing for the coming years? I recall the ACC was able to use the BE teams from the year before and the BE was able to use Louisville's from the year before. Why would the BE be able claim TCU's finish from 2010 when it starts playing (maybe) in the BE in 2012? Also, why are you so angry?

 

[gars44]

Do we get to claim TCU's BCS finish to bolster the BE's BCS standing for the coming years? I recall the ACC was able to use the BE teams from the year before and the BE was able to use Louisville's from the year before. Why would the BE be able claim TCU's finish from 2010 when it starts playing (maybe) in the BE in 2012? Also, why are you so angry?

T, we would get to claim it, as the contract applies to current constituents. As to the second question, that's kind of what I think everyone wants to know.

 

[CTBballfan243]

All UCONN needs to do is say we are commited to the BIG East. Then if the ACC offers jump to the ACC. No different than Miami, BC, Syracuse or Pitt. What's the big deal. UCONN should do what ever it takes to protects there best interests. "Do on to others before they do on to you." Everyone is committed to the Big East until something better comes along. The Big East is the girl friend who is a 6, you're committed to her until the 7 or 8 comes along.

 

[UConniki]

Big12 @ 9 teams, sec @ 13, seems logical and more than likely they expand sooner than acc does. Lville, wvu, cinn, tcu ect. all have a better chance of going to another league before Uconn ( more options ). And if they do , where does that leave Uconn exactly ? Lville is being talked about the most, they could tell B east, not staying, but they are not! they seem like they are willing to stay, ( its almost a gift ). If we were in their place, staying wouldnt be being talked about. Why ? Cause were Uconn and we just won a NC in mens bball, and we almost always win in wonans bball. I'm as shocked as everyone else that doesn't seem to matter much, (who wouldn't want the defending mens bball NC in their league ?) but it obviously doesn't. Times and things have changed. We need to change or be left behind . JC got us to the top, unfortunately, according to espn , in the wrong sport! The only sport that matters is football, maybe not to us , but to the people making the decisions.

 

[Excalibur]

Good post, but you are in a minority on this board. Most people on this board think that if UConn begs hard enough, then UConn will get into the ACC.

You are NEVER allowed to claim that someone twisted your words again.

 

[ctchamps]

Mike DeCourcy
Sporting News
TSNMike

"Meanwhile, a source close to the Big East said that league is expected to vote on offering Temple full membership in the league at its secretive presidents’ meeting Sunday in Washington, along with demanding a more firm commitment from restless members Connecticut and Rutgers.

The Big East lost longtime members Syracuse and Pitt to the ACC in mid-September. UConn and Rutgers openly have discussed their eagerness to be invited to the ACC, as well, but no offer appears to be forthcoming for either, and schools that are committed to Big East membership—most notably Louisville—would like to see the current members provide the league with a clearer future.

________________

First Pitino runs his mouth, now this. I'm not sure if the one minute man is the source for this, but obviously UofL and UConn are on a collision course.

You have to wonder where the secrets are.

Personally I think UConn should be non committal during this meeting. Asking Temple for an invite is intriguing. But to base UConn's future decisions only on this would be premature. It doesn't address anything regarding splitting or staying together with the BB schools. Nor does it address what the final configuration of the football schools will be if they split. It doesn't answer who are their targets. Nor does it guarantee they can get those schools even if they are offered. It closes up the option of a merger with the B12 if that conference falls apart, a much better option, imo, than a hodgepodge of unknowns. UConn isn't solidifying loyalty by caving in to demands of a put up or shut up approach. Talk about begging.

Even the case made that exit fees demonstrate group loyalty is flawed. A high exit fee would handicap Uconn more than say Louisville if the rumors are accurate where both universities could end up, given the higher media contract for the B12 than the ACC. Furthermore no one is arguing that FSU would concern itself with the elevated exit fee the ACC imposed if the SEC invited FSU and FSU decided it had enough of the ACC.

Could a non committal by UConn push schools like Louisville to leave. I'm sure if that scenario develops they will use UConn as an excuse. But they have already been pressing for a move whether they are forthright about admitting it or not. I would say this is where the secrets are lying.

 

[Rumrunner]

Bottom line- Herbst either knows something that the general public and press are unaware of, or she has handled this incompetently. She has been unwavering in her position.

I for one believe that she has spoken with the people who matter in the ACC and has superior information. There are definitely the naysayers here, led vocally by Nelson, that contend UConn's only short-term and medium-term options are found in the Big East. That camp says add commuter schools such as ECU, Temple, houston, UCF, etc. That would relegate the football conference to the worst academic schools in the BCS by a large margin. Geographically, it would be scattered. Culturally, UConn would be a misfit with all teams except Rutgers. Supposedly this conference through some egregious media rights/departure fee penalty would hang on to the AQ through at least one more cycle.

I guess tomorrow will give us some insight into who is right.

 

[RS9999X]

Nothing has to be decided immedately.

The candidate schools to the BE aren't going anywhere. Expansion can be talked about as scenarios and preference

Nothing's resolved until WVU and MIssouri are resolved.

Quick decisions benefit the basketball schools IMHO.

 

[uconNYC]

Hopefully the Toledo demolition of Temple will put the breaks on any talk of adding Temple immediately. Temple might have its merits, but there is absolutely no reason to rush into bringing them on board.

 

[Danzz]

I don't see what the conflict is. The ACC has not offered us so we should be committed to improving the league. Hopefully they can agree to offer Temple, that would be much needed good news.

The conflict is that we box ourselves in to a substandard league and pretty much eliminate any possibility of going to the ACC which I think is our best move. Haven't we already been through a Temple membership? I'd much rather have an upgraded Villanova instead of Temple. They are good enough to compete immediately.
I can also understand how others may think differently. We are not in a good position; better than Louisville but still not good.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The conflict is that we box ourselves in to a substandard league and pretty much eliminate any possibility of going to the ACC which I think is our best move. Haven't we already been through a Temple membership? I'd much rather have an upgraded Villanova instead of Temple. They are good enough to compete immediately.
I can also understand how others may think differently. We are not in a good position; better than Louisville but still not good.

Exactly. I would oppose any comittment to the BE with a meaningful penalty. The BE has no future. A rag tag collection of unwanted schools with nothing in common cannot survive as a conference. I'd rather go independent for football.

 

[RS9999X]

I think a smaller BE could emerge if rational minds prevail and wait a bit to see the expansion fallout.

If WVU leaves there's a strong core of 6 teams for Football

Air Force and Navy as Football only are fine to get to the min 8.
ND, Georgetown, Villanova, and St John's as all sports but football. 10 teams

Those are strengths and a good conference with identity.

They can then talk about the next steps from there.

 

[gars44]

You have to wonder where the secrets are.

Personally I think UConn should be non committal during this meeting. Asking Temple for an invite is intriguing. But to base UConn's future decisions only on this would be premature. It doesn't address anything regarding splitting or staying together with the BB schools. Nor does it address what the final configuration of the football schools will be if they split. It doesn't answer who are their targets. Nor does it guarantee they can get those schools even if they are offered. It closes up the option of a merger with the B12 if that conference falls apart, a much better option, imo, than a hodgepodge of unknowns. UConn isn't solidifying loyalty by caving in to demands of a put up or shut up approach. Talk about begging.

Even the case made that exit fees demonstrate group loyalty is flawed. A high exit fee would handicap Uconn more than say Louisville if the rumors are accurate where both universities could end up, given the higher media contract for the B12 than the ACC. Furthermore no one is arguing that FSU would concern itself with the elevated exit fee the ACC imposed if the SEC invited FSU and FSU decided it had enough of the ACC.

Could a non committal by UConn push schools like Louisville to leave. I'm sure if that scenario develops they will use UConn as an excuse. But they have already been pressing for a move whether they are forthright about admitting it or not. I would say this is where the secrets are lying.

I think we should try to stick together with Louisville, RU, WVA, Cincy, USF, whatever the cost. This nucleus of 6 has some staying power. We shouldn't piss it away.

 

[CL82]

It also makes it crystal clear that Villanova is off the table for an upgrade.

agreed

 

[Pudge]

agreed

I think adding Temple makes sense. Villanova's ascension was a massively boneheaded idea. And that prompted SU & Pitt to look.

Louisville's Tom Jurich taking a leadership role is an unbelievably good sign. Marinatto is an absolute idiot. Not seeing that the ACC was incentivizes by the contract material change clause was blind. He needs to go. Jurich can forge ahead.

We should commit now. It is the thing to do; and I do not want to be like the Syracuse fans bitching for the next 6 years while there team sucked. We are in it ... and the ACC is only going to call IF they need to get another market adjustment.

I really think we are a League of Up&Coming Programs. TCU is importamt. But, I would take Houston. UCF. A 10 solid league can grow: Look what happened with Cincy & Us & Louisville & USF? We basically outplayed SU. And Pitt underachieved. And BC is falling. I say we band together and fight ... like the AFL. And if we build our Fanbase & our Program. We will be in a great place. And be so far beyond SU & BC in the Northeast, it won't be funny.

I think Herbst has played this fine.

 

[upstater]

I think adding Temple makes sense. Villanova's ascension was a massively boneheaded idea. And that prompted SU & Pitt to look.

Louisville's Tom Jurich taking a leadership role is an unbelievably good sign. Marinatto is an absolute idiot. Not seeing that the ACC was incentivizes by the contract material change clause was blind. He needs to go. Jurich can forge ahead.

We should commit now. It is the thing to do; and I do not want to be like the Syracuse fans bitching for the next 6 years while there team sucked. We are in it ... and the ACC is only going to call IF they need to get another market adjustment.

I really think we are a League of Up&Coming Programs. TCU is importamt. But, I would take Houston. UCF. A 10 solid league can grow: Look what happened with Cincy & Us & Louisville & USF? We basically outplayed SU. And Pitt underachieved. And BC is falling. I say we band together and fight ... like the AFL. And if we build our Fanbase & our Program. We will be in a great place. And be so far beyond SU & BC in the Northeast, it won't be funny.

I think Herbst has played this fine.

By commitment, I take that to mean a big increase in time to leave the conference, perhaps an increase in exit fee, and worst of all--if you follow the latest craze by other conferences--forfeiting TV rights for a long time.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't believe that she is going hat in hand to this meeting. One truth is that hte conference does need some provisional government and history has demonstrated that the leadership we've had is not up to the task.

We also have not been begging. I realize that there is a poster here who for more than a year now has been attempting to gain attention by posting incessantly about the value of markets, believing that the upcoming television contract Marinatto was boasting about would be the ultimate evidence to vindicate him (even though many of us believed that the contract would never materialize) and now he irrationally is viewing UConn's realization that the BE has too limited of a future to be more than a temporary home as some personal attack on him.

If we do get an invitation to the ACC or B1G, it won't happen immediately and we will need to maintain a home for at least a few years. One thing that needs to be addressed (which is why having all oif the presidents and only the presidents at this meeting is necessary) is what the remaining conference membership sees as the best course of action. I am expecting some announcement Sunday evening along the lines of: "The narcotics trade will ber allowed but controlled. don Corleone will provide protction, and ther we have our peace.".

I imagine that Louisville's stance is to maintain an eastern presence (UConn amd Rutgers) while also ensuring stability (B-12). If there is some legitimate show of solidarity among the BE football programs, this could be sufficient leverage to coax the B-12 into expanding to 16. I'm guessing that UL's best case scenario at the moment is B-12 membership with UConn and Rutgers and they see this as the best way to get there.

If the Temple rumors are true (I believe to some extent they can be but I would be surprised if the announcement comes before some resolution on who is and is not going to the B-12 is reached) this is a very good sign. It tells me that Marinatto (with his ridiculous ideas, such as looking solely at football only members as an answer) has basically been removed from power already. I can't see this becoming official until after the catholic members have some assurances on remaining football membership as adding Temple for all sports will not be something an all catholic athletic conference would want.

So much FAIL in this post, even by your standards.

I would like to put this in a form you would understand, but I can't use crayons and construction paper on a message board. I will use as few sentences as possible to explain this to you.

If UConn wants to preserve its athletic program for the long-term, it needs to work on rebuilding the Big East which will require some level of commitment. If UConn wants an invitation to the ACC, it needs to work on rebuilding the Big East, which will require some level of commitment.

"Beg harder" is not a strategy. Neither is "hope harder" for an invitation to the ACC. UConn has to show how valuable an athletic program it is to get an invitation to the ACC, and it needs a strong Big East to do that. No commitment means not rebuilding the Big East which means recruiting classes and coaching staffs start to dissolve by January. By the spring, there will be nothing to add.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

By commitment, I take that to mean a big increase in time to leave the conference, perhaps an increase in exit fee, and worst of all--if you follow the latest craze by other conferences--forfeiting TV rights for a long time.

Or we could "beg harder", watch Louisville and friends bolt, and be in the MAC East, which would guarantee that we would NOT be invited to the ACC.

 

[Hoophound]

So much FAIL in this post, even by your standards.

I would like to put this in a form you would understand, but I can't use crayons and construction paper on a message board. I will use as few sentences as possible to explain this to you.

If UConn wants to preserve its athletic program for the long-term, it needs to work on rebuilding the Big East which will require some level of commitment. If UConn wants an invitation to the ACC, it needs to work on rebuilding the Big East, which will require some level of commitment.

"Beg harder" is not a strategy. Neither is "hope harder" for an invitation to the ACC. UConn has to show how valuable an athletic program it is to get an invitation to the ACC, and it needs a strong Big East to do that. No commitment means not rebuilding the Big East which means recruiting classes and coaching staffs start to dissolve by January. By the spring, there will be nothing to add.

I don't see FfldCntyFan suggesting begging anywhere. He is suggesting figuring out what makes sense using the best information---which he is is not privy to. I think Nelson has singlehandedly created the "begging" perception here and in turn it has found its way into the media. Herbst has made one mistake, she has attached her UCONN publicity drive to wanting an ACC invite. If all the stories in the AP had been general without any indication of what conference she was angling for, this wouldn't be backfiring. Essentially, we have effectively used the media to upgrade our academic image and draw attention to the many great things going on at UCONN. Has nobody noticed that Cuse, Carolina and BC fans no longer belittle UCONN's academics? That's because it has been put front and center that UCONN is good and rapidly getting even better by all this self promotion in conjunction with the recently released university rankings. We may not be in a big 4 conference at the moment but we have accomplished some things in the last few weeks.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I would like to put this in a form you would understand, but I can't use crayons and construction paper on a message board. I will use as few sentences as possible to explain this to you.

I would love to have the opportunity to go face to face with you, match education, employment history, career accomplishments and professional memberships (which require exclucivity). Hell I'll match IQ's with you and spot you 25 points. The fact is that you would never have the courage or character to actually show up as you would no longer have the internet to hide behind and you would be exposed as someone whose knowlege of corporate finance is limited to what he can retrieve in a google search.

Show me where and how Herbst has begged.

Show me where and when I posted that we need to beg (or beg harder).

Go ahead and tell someone that he doesn't understand game theory when his profession is statistics.

You are the biggest clown on this board.

 

[toppencil]

I would love to have the opportunity to go face to face with you, match education, employment history, career accomplishments and professional memberships (which require exclucivity). Hell I'll match IQ's with you and spot you 25 points. The fact is that you would never have the courage or character to actually show up as you would no longer have the internet to hide behind and you would be exposed as someone whose knowlege of corporate finance is limited to what he can retrieve in a google search.

Is that you Tea Bagger J? Republicans, I love'em.