intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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OOPS - don't I feel like an idiot.
I was just kidding, and more at uconnfan68 than yourself!
OOPS - don't I feel like an idiot.
Really? So you think our post players and Giffey for example were great defenders? Did you watch basketball in early 80's? Do you realize Houston had a front line of Olajuwon (freshman but impact player), Lary Micheauux (senior and first round draft pick) and Clyde Drexler (junior)? What team had this qulaity? The Kentucky "FRESHMEN?" I hope you aren't saying that.
Our post players and Giffey were NOT great players. They played great relative to their compettion. I spoke of "team" earlier. Houston had Drexler leading them. Look how good Young was as a freshman for Kentucky in that game and think about how great Drexler was as a junior. It's not comparable the quality.
I feel dumber than those analysts picking UCONN to lose even after Achonwa got hurt.
Our post players, especially Nolan, really came around in the tournament. We beat 3 of the best interior teams in the NCAAs (MSU/FL/UK) handily inside. This was an incredible defensive team effort. Obviously they don't compare to HOF players.
And I have to disagree about Giffey; he was a phenomenal defender. He was very much like Kelly Faris. He guarded the 2,3,4 and even 5 throughout the tournament. He was a monster on the boards.
You happen to be picking a team with 2 HOF players, one of whom was a freshman. That is a rarity historically anyway. Probably Drexler doesn't stick around to Jr year these days, we don't know.
In recent years, some of the best talent you'll ever see in MCBB played on the perimeter. Shabazz and Kemba are as good of PGs as you'll find in the men's game at a college level. As far as posts go, it's more of a guards game now anyway, in both MCBB and WCBB sports.
If you wanted to see greatness inside in the past ten years, UCONN in 2004 had a ridiculous post presence, with Okafor, Villanueva, Boone, Hilton, and White.
Also, UCONN has had plenty of high 1st round picks, but only one who left after one year.
Who did that? Please know that I am not trying to attack you or doubt what you are saying; I just do not recall seeing anyone pick Notre Dame to win after Achonwa's injury.
The McDoanld's High School game. If you have a tape of it- whoever the woman analyst was - she said during the All-Star game that either Notre Dame (wihout Achonwa) or Stanford will beat UCONN.
Thank you. I actually did not record the game.
Notre Dame, with Achonwa, would have pushed UConn, but would still have lost by 10-12 points in a game that would have been closer throughout the contest.
As it was, Notre Dame played a very strong first half, given the team was down big early. The Irish fought hard and competed well, but was facing a UConn juggernaut with scoring from all five positions on the floor. Notre Dame relied primarily on three scorers, and when one was done for the year, so was Notre Dame.
I know they came around in the torunament, but what supreme player did the UCONN frontline go against? The freshman Randle was overall the best talent-wise. Maybe him. Could Kentucky have matched up against Phi Slamma Jamma? I say not a chance. My point is mentioning that type of team - THAT is greatness. The UCONN women - THEY are greatness. Ths men's team comparing to other champions was just "Good enough" to win. You're mentioning in your reply to me that they were rare -the team I happen to pick - Houston - THAT is my point. You could see unbelievabe greatness at times back then just like now with UCONN (and Baylor for a short term). . And if I ever am to believe Sims is a tremendous player going forward and imo is right now, wouldn't that Baylor team be similar to Phi Slamma Jamma?
Another unreal game - I even had an old VHS tape UNC- Vs Georgetown (may have lost it). You had James Worthy and Sam Perkins up front. Worthy was junior. Do you know what he would have done to us- especially with a guy like Perkins to support along with freshman Michael Jordan? Again- if Kentucky's Young would looked as good vs. UCONN as he did just being a freshman, what would Jordan have done? We'd never see that great game now. Worthy would have been long gone. Maybe Perkins too.
And at the other end- Georgetown. They had Sleepy Floyd. He probably would haveleft as a junior too - so we would have missed. Sleepy Floyd as a senior would be a beast nowadays. Just look at how well the Michgan State FRESHMAN off-guard played vs UCONN. And GTOWN's defense anchored by freshman Ewing- light years ahead of our posts. Not to mention just TWO years later you get a matchup Ewing (jr) vs Olajuwon (jr) in the NCAA finals. The talent far, far superior because kids stayed longer. Our boys never had to face THAT - whether it be posts or wings or guards that great.
We saw how Okafor dominated because in genral the big men leave early. Wouldn't it have been great if Okafor went against the freshman Howard? What about a year or two later with Howard potentially going against Bynum? Again it's pipe dream nowadays. The talent doesn't stay. Imagine if Anthony Davis stayed, and if they are right about Nerlens Noel, you could have had a potential classic matchup- again assuming projections are correct. And just think a few years earlier of Houston/NC State you had Magic and Bird going at it.
Our guard play was great relatively speaking- but haven't we seen sophomores far superior such Magic, Isiaah, and Chris Paul? These are all-time greats that you had a chance to see for more than 1 year that had impacted the college game. You just see a small window now. BUT NOT with the UCONN women. Evey few years - like this past year- we are witnesses to all-time greatness. Not just a champion. But a TEAM filled with greatness. It can be breathtaking.
You would be witnessing greatness if Maya Moore & Breanna Stewart was going up against Diana Taurasi and Candace Parker. That sort of spectacle rarely exists in women's bball. The problem is there is not enough great players.
I'd also argue that the girls who come in aren't as dominant as freshman coming in. There are a couple of players who were great from the start. Parker, Maya, DT. But most, not so much. Moriah Jefferson was #2 in the country and she looked pedestrian her freshman year (which is fine btw); but that player would be an absolute stud on the men's side. Even Breanna wasn't phenomenal as a freshman until late in the year.
Candace Parker played regularly against Sylvia Fowles over 4 year period. Maya Moore and Angel faced each other a number of times over a 2 year period. Maya did face Griner twice and Charles faced her one. UConn regularly played against a team like Stanford with a number of future WNBA 1st round draft picks and two players that would be drafted #1 overall. And there are the numerous UConn and Notre Dame matchups. Those are just a few examples. Those repeat matchups between players that among the best in the world not just college don't happen on the men's side.
I'm not sure how much you actually pay attention to the men's side, but the struggles you describe Moriah and Breanna are typical on the men's side and not at all uncommon for the #1 overall player let alone the #2. The typical season is full of NBA draxt experts debating what the struggles of highly ranked players means. Many come out of it at the end of the season like Moriah and Breanna did. Women's players are for more reliable to be counted as an impact players as freshman.
I was only speaking to multiple elite players facing off, but yes, the best players face off more often on the women's side. That said, my point was, the 'witness to greatness' factor is mitigated by the overall top heavy disparity in talent among the women.
I follow men's basketball more than women's and again, in general, the top few freshman are studs. This year:
Name Pts Reb Asts Stls Blks
Julius Randle 15 10.4 1.4 0.5 0.8
Andrew Wiggins 17.1 5.9 1.5 1.2 1
Jabari Parker 19.1 8.7 1.2 1.1 1.2
Those are good numbers. Your Kevin Durants, your Anthony Davis's, etc. Most of the big players put up really good numbers. There was only hand ringing because the media thought they score 30pts per game and were shocked when they did not.
MoJett, the #2 recruit, averaged less than 5 pts per game. Breanna averaged a good 14.8 and 6.3. But remember, Breanna is supposed to be the most transcendent player to ever step on the court. A comparable talent, Kevin Durant, averaged 18.5pt, 11.1reb, 1.3/1.9/1.9. And that didn't even reflect how dominant he was.
I have no idea where you got that last statement from. What is that based on?
will return it's top 9 scorers from last season. Montout was the 10th...
I've already stated it here before that PG Sessions and SF Dozier were weaknesses to the team last season. PG Cuevas and W Wilson would fit into those roles perfectly. Both Sessions and Dozier were highly rated prep players (not as high as the youngsters of course) and will each have 2 seasons in the program. Last season was the first for each as predominant starters. They could continue to develop this off-season and fight for their positions on the depth charts. But they better get to work...
In either case we'll probably just see a lot more rotation at the positions, at the least. I expect to see Wilson rotated often at the SF/3 spot that's Dozier's and at /4 spot that's Aleighsa Welch's position. Also Welch could get a rest at times and let a combo "Big Girl" package between Ibiam/Coates/White at times. Having them on the floor however along with Wilson - who's big girl herself - at the 3 would be pretty intimidating to say the least for opponents, but it would also make our team fairly slow, and they better make their shot attempts or get the caroms or they will be left behind a lot of fast-break transitions to other way. But it'll be a way to give Wilson more minutes while giving Welch some rest.
Beyond them we have reserves PG Tiffany Davis, PG Olivia Gaines, and SG/SF Tina Roy who probably were going to be reserves no matter what...
The problem in the analogy is on the women's side imo. You don't get to see a ton of these 'greatness' matchups in WCBB because there aren't enough great players to go around. You say the Men play watered down teams, well it's even WORSE in a sense on the women's side, but for different reasons. The opposition is basically JV most of the time. It's practically a scrimmage. There's usually 3 or 4 potentially good games a year.
You would be witnessing greatness if Maya Moore & Breanna Stewart was going up against Diana Taurasi and Candace Parker. That sort of spectacle rarely exists in women's bball. The problem is there is not enough great players.
I'd also argue that the girls who come in aren't as dominant as freshman coming in. There are a couple of players who were great from the start. Parker, Maya, DT. But most, not so much. Moriah Jefferson was #2 in the country and she looked pedestrian her freshman year (which is fine btw); but that player would be an absolute stud on the men's side. Even Breanna wasn't phenomenal as a freshman until late in the year.
I love how people throw the 1980s as an example of "greatness" in MCBB compared to today.
Several champions that decade were lower seeded "cinderellas". NC State. Villanova. Kansas. All lower seeds who won. Several cinderellas made the Final 4 like Georgia, LSU, Providence, etc.
There was also no 3 point shot or shot clock for much of the decade either. Let's not over look that little fact.
This year men's tournament was fantastic and had great play level of play. Feel bad for anyone so jaded they couldn't enjoy it. Especially when our school ended up winning.
The same thing they say every year: UConn wins because they get all the top players and Geno can pretty much hand pick his roster of all-stars.What will the experts say when we win again next year? What would be good for WBB is promoting coaches based on their ability and not their connections or genes, ie Tyler Summitt.
You are missing the point. A supreme great team can lose in a super basketball game. That's my point. Which is why I not only brought up the NC State/Houston game but the womens's game of Louisville/Baylor. That was an all-time great game because of the quality and the surprise. Stanford lost as a number 1 seed one year to a 16-seed I believe. THAT was not an all-time great game. Suprise outcomes alone don't make a great game. You need quality too. The mens game was NOT super quality compared to Georgetown/UNC. . To think Nolan and Brimah are part of an all-time great team that could have matched up with Worthy and Perkins imo is wrong. What they did was play against lower quality front line and held up. That was remarkable and exciting. That's different than being all-time great. Which you get every so often when you watch the UCONN women. All-time greatness like we were witnesses to this year.
Kind of like what NC State did with Phi Slamma Jamma. I'll take the Houston frontline all-day any day over the freshmen Kentucky frontline.
As far as the 3 point shot- it makes NC State winning even more remarkable.
By the way- if you were talking about me- again you missed the point. All I said is their quality isn't as great as the women's quality. That means I didn't enjoy the men winning? I was jumpin' up and down yelling at the tv the whole time. I couldn't be happier OR MORE PROUD!!!