Looking at the Defense | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Looking at the Defense

gopher2 said:
Is Levenberry coming back? For some reason I thought he was out for the year. That will certainly help if he does return. As far as the DBs go I can't tell which ones might be the best 5. Summers had a bunch of picks a couple of years ago and has experience so I presume he is one our 5 best but beyond that I don't know.
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I'm not sure either but I do know that the normal recovery time is about 6 months for a torn ACL, meaning mid October.
 
RSTuthill said:
OK, pick somebody. Just used him as an example. It also lets your DEs line up just a little wider to get a more unimpeded route to the QB if you want to do that.
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In the 3-4 DEs don’t line up any wider. If anything, in the 3-4 you can roll a LB up closer to the LOS to the strength of the formation. The DEs are still head up to outside shoulder of the OT, as they would be in a 3-3. So, they wouldn’t rush unimpeded to the QB. The only change in the 3-4 is where the LBs are aligned and adding a 7th defender in the box. In the 3-3 the LBs are almost always stacked. This allows for blitz deception and is suppose keep offensive lineman from free releasing to run block them, if the DL does it’s job. In the 3-4 an OLB is a hybrid defender that can rush or cover. Essentially, he’s a LB with the ability to rush the QB like a DE.
 
Stairmaster said:
You want to propose something different? Sure. But just because it's "different" doesn't exclude it from being mind-numbingly stupid.
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If someone wants to play, plenty of open positions on D. What’s to lose?
 
RSTuthill said:
OK, pick somebody. Just used him as an example. It also lets your DEs line up just a little wider to get a more unimpeded route to the QB if you want to do that.
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The Dline is getting gashed regularly, and you want bigger gaps on the line?
 
kemba said:
So your solution to getting upfront pressure and leverage on the end is to throw some backup tight ends out there and hope they can do it?
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They can do it. It's not that hard to learn that position and outside leverage technique. Most of these kids are football players, I believe. So, the idea of tackling is not a foreign concept. I have faith in these kids as football players. They are not specialists with sacrosanct positions where they turn into jelly in another position. Will it be rough around the edges? Yes, but with reps one or even two might emerge as having the aptitude to be effective. A kid like Rose is riding the bench and his natural athleticism is being grossly under utilized. Give him a shot.

I find it fascinating that some fear change as if we might break what we have. Believe me, we could install a new scheme tomorrow and shuffle personnel and they would fair no worse. It's a tall order to give up 70. It requires a special degree of incompetence. Heck Southern Illinois held them to 44 and La. Monroe to 38. Apparently, we are worse than these second teir schools. No. I don't logically get there. Make changes in the D scheme. We might have a better shot... or do nothing and suffer.
 
gioff23 said:
This is the 3rd coach this decade who gets to use the "cupboard is bare" line. I'm exhausted. Each coach took over a squad with talent and made it worse in Y1. We are the only program in the country who can't seem to change coaches and move forward. We had a lot of issues last year, D was not one of them. Overnight we have no talent, no depth, no hitters, no tacklers, no pass coverage guys. I was not expecting a top 10 D, but there is simply no excuse for this.
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This is it 2017 in a nutshell. Great post. The D was good last year and have players back, but the cupboard is bare? I am calling bullsh$t
 
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hardcorehusky said:
And there is talent there- young talent. Young talent does not translate into results. Mature talent does. As I said in another thread- Obi was terrible his first two and half years. He had the talent- but once his game caught up to his talent, he became a force. Herring - Wilson, Fortt, Coyle, Swenson have talent.
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I believe the point above plus the OP makes things pretty clear but for some reason, those advocating for a change in scheme can't recognize it. As the OP made perfectly clear, we recruited for the 3-3-5 by focusing on bringing in a lot of DBs and those recruits are getting significant playing time (and getting burned regularly) already. The decision to recruit this way has effectively limited our ability to run other schemes (see OP's analysis of lack of depth on the DL). While it would have been great to see better results, we don't have much choice other than to take our lumps, give the young guys valuable game-time experience in the scheme that we plan on running longer-term, and see them improve over time. It should reap dividends.

Calling for change is all well and good when there is alternative that would represent improvement. By recruiting the way we did this past year, the decision was made a long time ago.

It isn't a talent issue, it's an experience issue.
 
uconnfan68 said:
The Dline is getting gashed regularly, and you want bigger gaps on the line?
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Got an extra LB in the middle. Not suggesting that would be a base set. You would do it only if and when you wanted to. Maybe never, who the heck knows. Just gives some extra flexibility.
 
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The people that are focusing more on the box and less on theDBs have got it. QBs have way too much time to find an open receiver and just as importantly, usually have wide open throwing lanes to deliver the ball. Crocker has to find ways to fill gaps against the run so we don't get savaged. Then he has find ways to fill those gaps with pressure and hands when the QB has to pass. If you don't have gap integrity you don't have a defense and we dont have gap integrity. Ever.
 
Husky68 said:
Just put them where they can be of some use. Don't tell me DB's are playing too far off, they play for you, put them where they should be, that's on you.
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You know the difference between real life and Madden, right?
 
jbdphi said:
Calling for change is all well and good when there is alternative that would represent improvement.
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Instead of radical change, how about keeping your scheme, keeping your personnel and making coaching adjustments? Isn't that coaching? I am not expecting to shut the other teams out. Heck, I am fine going 1-11 but the lack of coaching, discipline, stressing fundamentals and making adjustments is all on the coach IMO. Not to mention the D giving up on the coach against Memphis. Very bad signs. I am not buying zero talent - young inexperienced talent, yes. But let's see some signs that the DC can coach. That is what has bothered me so far. Not the scheme, not the talent, not the losing.
 
gioff23 said:
This is the 3rd coach this decade who gets to use the "cupboard is bare" line. I'm exhausted. Each coach took over a squad with talent and made it worse in Y1. We are the only program in the country who can't seem to change coaches and move forward. We had a lot of issues last year, D was not one of them. Overnight we have no talent, no depth, no hitters, no tacklers, no pass coverage guys. I was not expecting a top 10 D, but there is simply no excuse for this.
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Yep. Exactly how I feel.
 
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uconnfan68 said:
The Dline is getting gashed regularly, and you want bigger gaps on the line?
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I think he was just explaining, not suggesting, and if you roll up an OLB in a 3-4 to the string side to LoS, you effectively get a 4 front with outside leverage.
 
huskyrob1 said:
I'm surprised no on is counting the days that EJ is cleared to play. We can get that pressure with him at 100%. He may be listed as a linebacker but he is a big guy, 6'3"-260, he's really a small DL, and he's not slow either. Crocker's defense might work with him in there. Also the Herring-Wilson and Marshe Terry experiment has to end now. We need DB's who can pound the crap out of opposing receivers, don't run like ground sloths, and aren't afraid to steal a pick six. Please put Coyle and Bell back in as starters asap.
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I agree with you on Coyle vs. Terry. Coyle didn't look all that bad this year until he took out Tre Bell instead of the East Carolina receiver on the 75 yard touchdown pass on the first play in the second half of that game. I haven't seen Coyle on the field since that play other than on special teams. Considering how badly our defense has played since than maybe this was an over reaction by Edsall. Terry looks completely lost out there and has struggled with both tackling and pass coverage.
Bell vs Herring-Wilson I'm not sure about. Bell has been the most disappointing player on the team this year in my mind. He has struggled with both pass coverage and tackling. Herring-Wilson appears to be a better tackler than Bell although like Bell has trouble covering anybody out there.
Omar Fortt has been our most consistent DB this year. Watkins and McAllister are both hard nose tacklers but neither excel in pass coverage.
Hard to really know who to play but since Coyle is supposed to be our best athlete and is only a red shirt freshman I would like see him on the field this week instead of Terry.
Lets see what the depth chart shows this week.
 
uconnfan68 said:
The Dline is getting gashed regularly, and you want bigger gaps on the line?
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We need to get some JUCOs/Grad Transfers to fill in the rotation up front... Edge rushing specialist would be HUGE along with somebody with the size of Foley... We suck up front right now... I know coach says guys are not consistently using technique and all that crap, but fact is we are light in the a## up front... Fact....
 
gopher2 said:
Is Levenberry coming back? For some reason I thought he was out for the year. That will certainly help if he does return. As far as the DBs go I can't tell which ones might be the best 5. Summers had a bunch of picks a couple of years ago and has experience so I presume he is one our 5 best but beyond that I don't know.
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He should stay out for the rest of the year and then come back on a medical hardship... I'd like to see him go out on a high note then this mess...
 
The Funster said:
The people that are focusing more on the box and less on theDBs have got it. QBs have way too much time to find an open receiver and just as importantly, usually have wide open throwing lanes to deliver the ball. Crocker has to find ways to fill gaps against the run so we don't get savaged. Then he has find ways to fill those gaps with pressure and hands when the QB has to pass. If you don't have gap integrity you don't have a defense and we dont have gap integrity. Ever.
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You bring up a good point and we discussed it in our tailgate group. We’re clearly not getting pressure with the front three. Essentially in this defense those guys are not pass rushers anyway. They’re gap players who need to keep the LBs clean to make plays. But, I think one of the issues is our DL not getting hands in the passing lanes. If you can’t get to the QB at least get your hands up.

I’d also like to see us be more physical with WRs at the LOS to throw off the timing of the offense, especially in short yardage situations. Maybe the staff doesn’t feel the secondary is physically strong enough to do that and/or doesn’t trust them in man coverage.
 
Crocker and Edsall who is involved with defense more than offense need to coach better period. A top coach coaches with what you got and what would work now, not your ideal future state. Our linebacker unit is much better than our DB unit so if we want to stop being embarrassed need to go 3-4 rest of season with at least one of them blitzing on pass downs as former DC Brown says you play defense on your toes, not your heels as we are with this scheme with inexperienced secondary. Combination of Joseph, Diggs, Britton, Stapleton, Santana and Beavers are strongest overall position unit on defense. Noticed Stapleton playing time is down and he has always seems to be a disruptive force when on field and playing with pressure, so they need to get him on field in 3-4 and let him attack. If going to play Summers 8 yards of ball at corner might as we move him to safety as did OK there last year and has better instincts than the guys out there.
 
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Tdaley said:
I agree with you on Coyle vs. Terry. Coyle didn't look all that bad this year until he took out Tre Bell instead of the East Carolina receiver on the 75 yard touchdown pass on the first play in the second half of that game. I haven't seen Coyle on the field since that play other than on special teams. Considering how badly our defense has played since than maybe this was an over reaction by Edsall. Terry looks completely lost out there and has struggled with both tackling and pass coverage.
Bell vs Herring-Wilson I'm not sure about. Bell has been the most disappointing player on the team this year in my mind. He has struggled with both pass coverage and tackling. Herring-Wilson appears to be a better tackler than Bell although like Bell has trouble covering anybody out there.
Omar Fortt has been our most consistent DB this year. Watkins and McAllister are both hard nose tacklers but neither excel in pass coverage.
Hard to really know who to play but since Coyle is supposed to be our best athlete and is only a red shirt freshman I would like see him on the field this week instead of Terry.
Lets see what the depth chart shows this week.
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Bell has his weaknesses, but he is still head and shoulders above Herring-Wilson, who moves like in slow motion, and I've yet to see him bat a ball down. He tackles ok but only after the receiver has already caught the ball right in front of him. Herring-Wilson plays like a ballerina and Terry plays like turtle.
 
huskymedic said:
Tough turtle. Terry is the second leading DB in tackles (#4 overall after Joseph, Summers and Diggs)
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Doesn't mean squat if the receiver he's supposed to cover already caught the ball 12 yards or more up the field. I've yet to see him or Herring-Wilson bat away a pass. Terry and Herring-Wilson play much to passively IMO, I'd rather have Coyle and Bell in there on pass plays, they both hit harder and are willing to take chances pick 6 wise. Terry and Herring-Wilson might work on running plays, both are good tacklers, but in pass coverage both suck.
 
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Marty Jackson said:
how is the fact that our defense is now last, directly correlated to the boost we're seeing from Lashlee's offense?
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Hurry up offense provides the other team with more possessions. Diaco did the opposite. Playing as slowly as possible to shorten the game.
 
If only Jesus were in the huddle. Oh wait, even Jesus couldn't fix this.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Hurry up offense provides the other team with more possessions. Diaco did the opposite. Playing as slowly as possible to shorten the game.
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I mentioned this in another thread, but the difference in time of possession is pretty small (29 min/game vs. 25min/game this year). That explains very little of what is going on here. Our offense runs much faster, but they now get first downs and long sustained drives, so the time of possession stays close.

The biggest thing for this defense is getting off the field on third down. We're horrible at it. Memphis was 13 for 20 on third down, and they picked up 2 additional conversions from those stops on fourth down anyway. You can't have your opponents be successfully bailed out on 75% of the times you were actually doing well... (since I'm not counting when they convert on first or second down)
 
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UConnDan97 said:
And it's oddly the thing that gives me hope for future games. Get off the field on a 3rd and 5 or longer, and we're in business again. Small adjustments could have a big impact here...
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Well, you got to find some sort of angle to justify fandom and hope. I'll go with this for watching the Temple game. Bonus, if we win, its nice (better than losing) for the local recruiting trail.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I mentioned this in another thread, but the difference in time of possession is pretty small (29 min/game vs. 25min/game this year). That explains very little of what is going on here. Our offense runs much faster, but they now get first downs and long sustained drives, so the time of possession stays close.

The biggest thing for this defense is getting off the field on third down. We're horrible at it. Memphis was 13 for 20 on third down, and they picked up 2 additional conversions from those stops on fourth down anyway. You can't have your opponents be successfully bailed out on 75% of the times you were actually doing well... (since I'm not counting when they convert on first or second down)
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Good points. I hadn't seen the time of possession stats. I definitely noticed the failure on third down, and I've attributed some of that to terrible short yardage run defense. We don't seem to be able to put big bodies up on the line of scrimmage in that situation.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Good points. I hadn't seen the time of possession stats. I definitely noticed the failure on third down, and I've attributed some of that to terrible short yardage run defense. We don't seem to be able to put big bodies up on the line of scrimmage in that situation.
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You can live with the 3rd and 2s. But I pull out my last 7 hairs over the 3rd and 10s that get converted. Absolute back-breakers...
 
huskyrob1 said:
Bell has his weaknesses, but he is still head and shoulders above Herring-Wilson, who moves like in slow motion, and I've yet to see him bat a ball down. He tackles ok but only after the receiver has already caught the ball right in front of him. Herring-Wilson plays like a ballerina and Terry plays like turtle.
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Herring-Wilson problem may be a lack of confidence or lack of an ability to make the right reads. He often hesitates before attempting to make a play. Bell doesn't lack confidence but he has played terribly so far. In the SMU game he allowed their running back to run untouched on his side of the field 15 yards for a touchdown where it appeared that he had a good angle to a least knock him out of bounds. Nevertheless, maybe this benching will light a fire under Bell's butt and we get better play from him going forward.
 
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