LMFAO!

[champs99and04]

I'm not Mau, but I think what you have to keep in mind about Calipari is that out of his 9 final four games he's coached in, he's been favored in 8 of them. And he's only 4-4 in those games. Izzo hasn't been favored in a FF game since 2000(can't find data going back further than 2001). Roy is 5-3. Calhoun was 4-1.

Obviously the spread isn't the end all be all, but Calipari's dropped probably 2 games in the final four that he shouldn't have. Not to mention the 2010 EE loss to WVU, which looked bad at the time and will look worse as time goes on and Wall and Cousins' NBA careers play out.

The Cal numbers regarding the spread are a bit flimsy given that three of the match-ups he was favored in (both games vs. us, and the '08 title vs. Kansas) were essentially toss-ups, and he was actually the lower of the seeds in two of them.

He got outcoached against Wisconsin, I won't disagree with you there. As far as 2011 is concerned, that was basically a complete rock fight, and in 2014 I just don't think they were that good (if you're into the point spreads, he won two games as underdogs to get there).

 

[David 76]

He is not a great game coach, but he is not a bad coach.

 

[TheChamps990411]

You have way to much time on your hands...

Obviously! I spent a lot of time writing a couple of sentences.

 

[TheChamps990411]

No, it isn't. It's the best resume anyone has over that stretch. Trying to say that Calipari has underachieved at Kentucky is ludicrous. If that's the case, who has ever been successful there? That's a better run than Pitino ever had. Certainly better than Tubby Smith or Gillespie.

Im not going to say he has underachieved but i will say that Calipari as far as x`s and o`s go has been outcoached in big spots time and time again especially having the advantage of talent by a large margin. I look at it like this could Calipari lead Uconn `14 to a national title like KO did? From his history problably not. Could KO put up those numbers at UK with that amount of talent? More likely. Imo you give Guillesppie the talent Squid has had recently and he likely has a few final fours and a title himself. That being said its all speculation. Whats not speculative is Uconn has two national titles with FAR less talent in recent years and that has everything to do with coaching.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The Cal numbers regarding the spread are a bit flimsy given that three of the match-ups he was favored in (both games vs. us, and the '08 title vs. Kansas) were essentially toss-ups, and he was actually the lower of the seeds in two of them.

He got outcoached against Wisconsin, I won't disagree with you there. As far as 2011 is concerned, that was basically a complete rock fight, and in 2014 I just don't think they were that good (if you're into the point spreads, he won two games as underdogs to get there).

That's the point though, if you're favored in three games you should win at least one of them. Coach K's been favored in 5 FF games since the turn of the century and he's won all 5. Pitino is at least 5-1 in his career(can't find the '93 Kentucky-Michigan spread).

I think most of Cal's supporters would consider him a top 5 active head coach at least(I'm not a fan of his but I think he's a top 5 coach) and his peers have generally done better than him as favorites at the final four. Maybe it's not a huge knock on him, but I don't think it's insignificant.

 

[UCHuskies08]

As I stated earlier, only 50% of top ten prospects (RSCI) go on to be lottery picks. Cal's conversion rate? 72%. Every one of his guys that was not a lottery pick ended up as a first round pick. These percentages are not final however, some players are still in college and others are in this year's draft class.

Do you plan on using any facts, or will you continue to value your perception over reality?


I don't dispute that guys like Anthony Davis, Wall, etc will go to the NBA no matter what. However, he is the most successful coach in D1 in regards to converting top 10 players into lottery picks. You can't rip away what he does as far as getting guys to the NBA. Only judging him off of players he develops for 3-4 years isn't fair since he operates a program that typically churns out kids in 2 years or less. It would be like judging Calhoun's NBA players solely off guys who came here as one and dones.

I don't like Calipari or UK. But I love the history of college basketball. Disregarding the accomplishments of Cal and UK because of how he operates or what people think of him is just plain stupid. Not directed at you mau, but the greater Boneyard in general.

Name a UK player who became a top 10 pick due to the coaching of the Squid, who otherwise might not have been

 

[formerlurker]

You're calling Cal a "C" coach because you are setting a standard for him -- based on recruiting success -- that leaves no one to compare it to. Why don't you compare his track record at Memphis and UMass to coaches who preceeded and followed him there and explain to everyone how he's average.

He cheated at UMass and Memphis.

 

[champs99and04]

That's the point though, if you're favored in three games you should win at least one of them. Coach K's been favored in 5 FF games since the turn of the century and he's won all 5. Pitino is at least 5-1 in his career(can't find the '93 Kentucky-Michigan spread).

I think most of Cal's supporters would consider him a top 5 active head coach at least(I'm not a fan of his but I think he's a top 5 coach) and his peers have generally done better than him as favorites at the final four. Maybe it's not a huge knock on him, but I don't think it's insignificant.

My point is, though, that not all favorites are created equal, so comparing the records of head coaches as favorites at the final four is not apples to apples. Did you really consider Kentucky a favorite over UConn in 2011? Did you consider them a favorite over UConn in 2014? What about Memphis over Kansas? Not rhetorical, legitimately curious. I personally viewed them as toss-ups - now, it's a fair point to say he should win at least 1 of 3 50/50 games - particularly because that's when coaches are most integral to the outcome - but still, I don't see Cal as a lesser coach because Derrick Rose missed a free throw or because Shabazz was hitting 30 footers.

 

[Brochacho]

Name a UK player who became a top 10 pick due to the coaching of the Squid, who otherwise might not have been

I can't operate on a continuum like that, especially since you said his players would be in the NBA no matter what. If your argument depends on subjective, hypothetical scenarios then you don't have an argument.

 

[businesslawyer]

He cheated at UMass and Memphis.

No . But people on your side of this debate want it both ways. You want to (accurately) say he cheated so ignore his achievements coaching as to whether or not he's a good coach, but his unbelievable successes (recruiting) have to be considered so we don't consider him a good "coach" even when he wins.

One can defend Calipari as a coach and still believe he is pond scum. He is pond scum. But even if you want to ignore what he's accomplished at UK, the man can coach and he proved that at UMass and Memphis.

 

[johnhuskies95]

My point is, though, that not all favorites are created equal, so comparing the records of head coaches as favorites at the final four is not apples to apples. Did you really consider Kentucky a favorite over UConn in 2011? Did you consider them a favorite over UConn in 2014? What about Memphis over Kansas? Not rhetorical, legitimately curious. I personally viewed them as toss-ups - now, it's a fair point to say he should win at least 1 of 3 50/50 games - particularly because that's when coaches are most integral to the outcome - but still, I don't see Cal as a lesser coach because Derrick Rose missed a free throw or because Shabazz was hitting 30 footers.

I would probably agree that the two UConn games should've been toss-ups, but I'm also a UConn fan. I mean the guys who set the lines are going off of way more data and considering way more things than we laypeople are. I was very surprised at the time to see UConn as an underdog in 2014, but at the same time I thought Memphis was about 4 or 5 points better than Kansas in '08. And when Calipari's teams are consistently poor free throw shooters, I think a little bit of that has to fall on him.

I'm not even really arguing that he got out coached in those games like you seem to think I am. I thought Wisconsin was better than Kentucky last year, all things considered, although UK did have some downright horrible offensive possessions in the last 5 minutes. What I'm saying is that the coaches that are the best of the best find ways to win at least a couple of those games.

 

[David 76]

Bet your Ky was "supposed" to beat us in 14.

 

[DogMania]

It's not a bad thing to have an unexpressed thought every now and again.

LOL. Just another gem, Fishy.