Lindsay Whalen steps down from Minnesota

[Blakeon18]

Says the crawl on ESPN.
Overall record 71-76.

I'm surprised she didn't do better. My impression is that the homestate elite
went elsewhere...notably a couple from Hopkins High.

I can't imagine they will get a bigger name...but who might be a good fit?
Lots of talent in the midwest...LOTS!

 

[BBallF]

I loved her as a player, especially on our National Team. What an incredible back up to Sue. You went from pure finesse and skill to power and physicality at the same position. I thought she would be a great coach but you have to get the players and maybe she couldn't succeed at that aspect of the job. For Xs and Os I couldn't imagine anyone better. Such a smart player.

 

[Galaxyshooter]

Once again this shows that great players don't make great coaches. For every Bill Russell, there are countless Larry Bird's and now after Cynthia Cooper we have Lindsay Whalen...The best coaches seem to be role players who sat and watched a lot and can teach the game to others great players don't have the communication skills to explain how to do something that was natural to them and can't deal with the effects of losing especially winning do much in their careers.

 

[Charliebball]

that's a shame...........it just illustrates how challenging it can be to be a head coach today at a major university even for a well-known former player

 

[huskeynut]

This is not surprising. Lindsay had no coaching experience when she took the job. The "name recognition" only goes so far.

Being a head coach at a D1 school or any level is so much more than playing skills. Many greats were talented and gifted as players. And that talent is not easily transferred to others. Coaching/ teaching - and coaches are teachers first, is a completely different set of skills. It is much more than X's and O's.

How do you teach rebounding? Just saying it's blocking out your opponent is not even close to enough instruction. Body position, moving and planting your feet, awareness of your opponent's position, watching the travel and arc of the shot - that's just the start. What drills do you have and/or develop to teach the skill with constant repetition.

And I haven't even started on recruiting. That is a whole other set of skills a coach needs. Professional playing doesn't teach that at all.

And how to select assistant coaches. The list goes on and on. Being a head coach is one tough job.

 

[BBallF]

Once again this shows that great players don't make great coaches. For every Bill Russell, there are countless Larry Bird's and now after Cynthia Cooper we have Lindsay Whalen...The best coaches seem to be role players who sat and watched a lot and can teach the game to others great players don't have the communication skills to explain how to do something that was natural to them and can't deal with the effects of losing especially winning do much in their careers.

That lousy coach-great player phenomenon is certainly a theme that many embrace. You can name many including Rollie Massimino, Coach K, Rick Pitino, Bill Self etc. There are very glaring exceptions and I don't necessarily include Russell in them as a perfect counter to that because he was a player/coach and still the greatest team player in the League and it was only three years with the Celtics. He did win it all 2 out of 3 years though losing only the first year to that incredible 76er team. His stint at Seattle afterwards was lackluster. The best counter example is John Wooden. The best player in the country at Purdue and the greatest men's coach of all time. Tom Heinsohn was also both a great player and a great coach. Patrick Ewing is far from a great coach.

I think when the game doesn't come naturally to you, you understand the fundamentals and building blocks better. The same reason why a Ted Williams could not be a great hitting coach. How do you teach an eye so great that the umpires often deferred to him on the call? If he didn't swing it must be a ball. I just thought that Whalen would be an exception just like I think that Sue would be a great coach. However, on the flip side, though Shea Ralph was a great player at one time, her injury changed her. She became more of a student of the game and coach in training and will be , I predict, a great college coach once she gets to a place where the recruiting is more effortless and the recognition for the program is historic.

 

[Maine CTFan]

I wonder if they'll take a look at Duffy. Midwest playing career, both high school and college, Midwest coaching career, a marquee win against UCONN, great win loss percentage (108-43). Post season success is not great, only made out of first round of any tournament, but third round of WNIT last year. I think shed be a great hire.

Minnesota could be a good team. Braun and Battle have shown a lot of promise and Hart, who was buried behind numerous posts at NC State, I think can be solid if given playing time.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

This is not surprising. Lindsay had no coaching experience when she took the job. The "name recognition" only goes so far.

Being a head coach at a D1 school or any level is so much more than playing skills. Many greats were talented and gifted as players. And that talent is not easily transferred to others. Coaching/ teaching - and coaches are teachers first, is a completely different set of skills. It is much more than X's and O's.

How do you teach rebounding? Just saying it's blocking out your opponent is not even close to enough instruction. Body position, moving and planting your feet, awareness of your opponent's position, watching the travel and arc of the shot - that's just the start. What drills do you have and/or develop to teach the skill with constant repetition.

And I haven't even started on recruiting. That is a whole other set of skills a coach needs. Professional playing doesn't teach that at all.

And how to select assistant coaches. The list goes on and on. Being a head coach is one tough job.

Yes. It is knowing what you don't know, what you aren't good at and finding the right pieces to fill in the holes whether that be players, staff or asst coaches. Then being able to manage those pieces to be successful. When you look at the whole job, the basketball is really just a small part of it.

 

[Dillon77]

Says the crawl on ESPN.
Overall record 71-76.

I'm surprised she didn't do better. My impression is that the homestate elite
went elsewhere...notably a couple from Hopkins High.

I can't imagine they will get a bigger name...but who might be a good fit?
Lots of talent in the midwest...LOTS!

Thanks: As an FYI, The General Board has had posts on this on two coaching changing threads if anyone wants to see posts from the previous day.
(Kind of keeps a lot of these ideas in one "more manageable" place....there are going to be a number of changes this month.)

 

[bballnut90]

This is not surprising. Lindsay had no coaching experience when she took the job. The "name recognition" only goes so far.

Being a head coach at a D1 school or any level is so much more than playing skills. Many greats were talented and gifted as players. And that talent is not easily transferred to others. Coaching/ teaching - and coaches are teachers first, is a completely different set of skills. It is much more than X's and O's.

How do you teach rebounding? Just saying it's blocking out your opponent is not even close to enough instruction. Body position, moving and planting your feet, awareness of your opponent's position, watching the travel and arc of the shot - that's just the start. What drills do you have and/or develop to teach the skill with constant repetition.

And I haven't even started on recruiting. That is a whole other set of skills a coach needs. Professional playing doesn't teach that at all.

And how to select assistant coaches. The list goes on and on. Being a head coach is one tough job.

This 100%. A lot of great players have struggled finding success in the coaching ranks (Swoopes, Cooper, Thompson, Katie Smith, T-Spoon, now Lindsay Whalen). Dawn Staley/Becky Hammon types don't grow on trees. Hopefully we see Ivey/Lawson join that mix too.

 

[Dillon77]

I wonder if they'll take a look at Duffy. Midwest playing career, both high school and college, Midwest coaching career, a marquee win against UCONN, great win loss percentage (108-43). Post season success is not great, only made out of first round of any tournament, but third round of WNIT last year. I think shed be a great hire.

Minnesota could be a good team. Braun and Battle have shown a lot of promise and Hart, who was buried behind numerous posts at NC State, I think can be solid if given playing time.

I posted this earlier on the P5 Coaching Changes, where there is also a discussion:

I thought about that for a second, but ...

• My McGraw's Bench colleague, Raoul (not that one), who follows Midwest Hoops a bunch, thinks Whelan was "only" making some $550,000 this year, as opposed to Duffy's $750-$800,00 base at Marquette. For B1G comparison, he also thinks Coquese Washington is making around $750K base at Rutgers. So, Minnesota, if they want to get up to speed with B1G rivals and/or Big East, for that matter, need to up the ante.
• His suggestion? Dawn Plitzuweit, who was earning $250K at South Dakota, before heading to West Virginia at some $500K. And she's done a pretty good job in a "new" area of the country. After those years in the Plains, she obviously has contacts in the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.
• The shelves aren't bare at Marquette either: Duffy had two of her recruits earn All-freshmen honors and Liz Karlen has improved every year at the power forward slot. Like a few posters here, I think Duffy should work on developing that program and keep her eyes out very selectively (Hint: I'm thinking Northwestern in a few years). However, her agent....

 

[JellyBean]

Definitely not what I was expecting but I could tell something was up this season, just from watching from the sidelines. Coach Whalen knows basketball and is one heck of a person and a decent coach. Here in Minnesota, she is a legend. Like a lot of people in Minnesota, I was cheering for her and for her to get the Gophers WBB program into that middle ground of the Big Ten, if not better. Sometimes, things just don't work out. Coach Whalen gave coaching a decent shot and hired some decent coaches for her coaching staff.

I read and heard a lot of people saying how "She did not have enough coaching experience." or "She did not have any coaching experience" that is why things did not work out. Maybe so, maybe not. All I can say is, there are coaches who have college coaching experience and things do not work out and there are coaches who have little to no college coaching experience and things work out. A good example that comes to mind of a coach who had no college coaching experience, and she was able to boost a program, C. Vivian Stringer. Of course, I had to go waaaaaay back, but she is always my go to when I bring up a coach with no experience and she developed Cheyney State into a decent program. I am sure there are some current coaches but Coach Stringer works just fine. Sometimes, things work out and sometimes, things don't. You have to try.

I wish Coach Whalen all the best. Whoever we get here in Minnesota to coach the women's program, they have some decent pieces in place and a few on the horizon, that could develop into something and help build the program.

 

[Maine CTFan]

I posted this earlier on the P5 Coaching Changes, where there is also a discussion:

I thought about that for a second, but ...

• My McGraw's Bench colleague, Raoul (not that one), who follows Midwest Hoops a bunch, thinks Whelan was "only" making some $550,000 this year, as opposed to Duffy's $750-$800,00 base at Marquette. For B1G comparison, he also thinks Coquese Washington is making around $750K base at Rutgers. So, Minnesota, if they want to get up to speed with B1G rivals and/or Big East, for that matter, need to up the ante.
• His suggestion? Dawn Plitzuweit, who was earning $250K at South Dakota, before heading to West Virginia at some $500K. And she's done a pretty good job in a "new" area of the country. After those years in the Plains, she obviously has contacts in the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.
• The shelves aren't bare at Marquette either: Duffy had two of her recruits earn All-freshmen honors and Liz Karlen has improved every year at the power forward slot. Like a few posters here, I think Duffy should work on developing that program and keep her eyes out very selectively (Hint: I'm thinking Northwestern in a few years). However, her agent....

I didn't know Marquette was paying her so much more than MN. MN better open those purse strings.

 

[Puppy Love]

I really like Megan Duffy. She’d be on my short list if/when Geno retires.

 

[Dillon77]

Here's an idea for Minnesota: Kamie Ethridge, currently performing miracles at Washington State, after she nailed it at Northern Colorado. Great player, teacher and now coach. Credibility and contacts all over the map...well globe.

According to the WSU bio: "Ethridge has recruited elite talent from all over the globe during her tenure at Washington State, which includes New Zealand native Charlisse Leger-Walker, who was a 2020-21 USBWA All-American Honorable Mention selection and the 2020-21 Pac-12 Freshman of the Year. Players such as Ula Motuga (Australia), Johanna Teder (Estonia), Bella Murekatete (Rwanda), Krystal Leger-Walker (New Zealand) Jessica Clarke (Canada) and Tara Wallack (Canada) have went on to play for their national team programs."

Why is this important? While it's acknowledged there's good talent in Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc., it takes time and effort to build up contacts and establish connections. Ethridge could rely on her international contacts to bring in players until she establishes said connections.

Plus, she's done all this...well...all her life.

 

[visitingcock]

The State has produced a lot of talent. She has failed to capitalize on that in recruiting. That alone is enough to give up the clipboard. No need to go into xs and Os

 

[UcMiami]

Let's face it, Minnesota as a women's basketball program has only made any noise when Lindsay was convinced to stay home and play for them and Janel McCarville from neighboring WI followed the next year. There are some schools like that - Cincinnati is another - where administration, AD, whatever, make it a 'not a destination' for WCBB talent. They have had a team since AIAW days and except for Lindsay's and Janel's overlapping 5 years they have made it to only 6 other NCAAs and won a total of 3 games. And the best seeding achieved was an eight.

So while Lindsay didn't change the results I am not sure it says anything else about her skill as a coach. It takes more than a coach to change a program with little history of success.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Once again this shows that great players don't make great coaches. For every Bill Russell, there are countless Larry Bird's and now after Cynthia Cooper we have Lindsay Whalen...The best coaches seem to be role players who sat and watched a lot and can teach the game to others great players don't have the communication skills to explain how to do something that was natural to them and can't deal with the effects of losing especially winning do much in their careers.

Others have covered this in general - but I want to say about Larry Bird - he chose to coach only 3 years, he coached only 3 years, his record was 147-67, he lost twice in conference finals and once in the NBA finals. Sorry, he was successful.

 

[ISUnorth]

Thought comment from Frese was weird considering he bailed after one year at Minnesota. I get she's in town for the tournament and coached Whalen (but didn't recruit her) and it's a Big Ten job and all, but saying less would be better.

"It's a very attractive job,'' Frese said, "[if] you can get the best players in the state of Minnesota and the surrounding area to stay home. You see where the Big Ten is right now and all the great teams. So this is where recruits want to play.'' - Star Tribune 3/4/2023​

With Lindsay Whalen out, what's left behind for Gophers women's basketball?

Members of Minnesota's basketball community believe the decision came too soon and wonder what effect that could have on finding her replacement.

www.startribune.com

 

[ISUnorth]

Definitely not what I was expecting but I could tell something was up this season, just from watching from the sidelines. Coach Whalen knows basketball and is one heck of a person and a decent coach. Here in Minnesota, she is a legend. Like a lot of people in Minnesota, I was cheering for her and for her to get the Gophers WBB program into that middle ground of the Big Ten, if not better. Sometimes, things just don't work out. Coach Whalen gave coaching a decent shot and hired some decent coaches for her coaching staff.

I read and heard a lot of people saying how "She did not have enough coaching experience." or "She did not have any coaching experience" that is why things did not work out. Maybe so, maybe not. All I can say is, there are coaches who have college coaching experience and things do not work out and there are coaches who have little to no college coaching experience and things work out. A good example that comes to mind of a coach who had no college coaching experience, and she was able to boost a program, C. Vivian Stringer. Of course, I had to go waaaaaay back, but she is always my go to when I bring up a coach with no experience and she developed Cheyney State into a decent program. I am sure there are some current coaches but Coach Stringer works just fine. Sometimes, things work out and sometimes, things don't. You have to try.

I wish Coach Whalen all the best. Whoever we get here in Minnesota to coach the women's program, they have some decent pieces in place and a few on the horizon, that could develop into something and help build the program.

New coach will have to do some fast recruiting. By recruiting I mean retaining the freshman. It's a good class and a solid base to build on but they can easily just leave like Sara Scalia did. Not sure there is even roster space for a portal recruit but I sort of stopped paying attention mid-season to those details.

 

[GoldenGophs]

Got some good news on players returning this morning.

 

[GoldenGophs]

 

[JellyBean]

Thanks @GoldenGophs for sharing the good news about Mallory and Mara. Plus, I read somewhere that Niamaya Holloway is staying as well. Not sure how she is on the recovery scale but getting her back and having her play along with Battle, Heyer, and Braun, could be helpful next season.

 

[GoldenGophs]

Now we just need Rose, Battle, and Borowicz to commit to returning.

 

[JellyBean]

Now we just need Rose, Battle, and Borowicz to commit to returning.

Yes. Hopefully we hear from them. I believe all of the incoming 23-24 freshmen are still on track for the year. Coach Whalen was loading up. She had some pieces this year to blend with the current roster and then new faces to blend with the sophomore group. Looking forward to seeing how Dominika Paurova, Ajok Madol, MyKynnlie Dalan, and Kennedy Klick all work together next year. Whoever the new coach is, they will have some decent players to build around.

 

[Coler]

Any early front runners for the job?

 

[JellyBean]

Any early front runners for the job?

Nothing on the radar yet. There are always a list of candidates and potential hires but nothing brewing yet...on the front burner. On the backend, I am sure there are phone calls being made.

 

[Littlemin]

Once again this shows that great players don't make great coaches. For every Bill Russell, there are countless Larry Bird's and now after Cynthia Cooper we have Lindsay Whalen...The best coaches seem to be role players who sat and watched a lot and can teach the game to others great players don't have the communication skills to explain how to do something that was natural to them and can't deal with the effects of losing especially winning do much in their careers.

I agree 100% with your premise but not necessarily your choices cited to prove your point; Bird coached three years and won over 2/3 of his regular season games and over 60% of playoff games, including winning a conference championship. Russell had great success coaching the Celtics, no question, but that was a unique situation, taking over as player / coach of a team he had played with and led for 10 seasons prior. He had virtually no real success during his 5 year tenure at Seattle, finishing 4 games under .500 his first 4 years, and leaving during his 5th after 58 games with a 17-41 record.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

We all know great players don't always make great coaches. Dawn Staley has of course been phenomenal but I think it helped she was at Temple for a few years, which frankly had less of a spotlight placed on her despite being a Philly native. Whalen grew up in MN, played at the school, won titles with the Lynx, and was a newbie entering a job in a major conference so the spotlight and expectations on her were large. I suspect Dawn learned some things in her time at Temple, plus it appears she's surrounded herself with good people both there and SC.

Tina Thompson did very poorly at UVA, NMP didn't do very well at MSU, Rizzoti struggled at GW after being moderately successful at Hartford, Stephanie White was terrible at Vandy, and there are of course plenty of others. Whalen won't be the last coach at all who gets hired on name only to underperform.