Limited Mins as Freshman to Major Contributor

[knicksin7]

I am so impressed with Hurley's ability to retain players who played sparingly freshman year, and on top of that, recruiting top tier talent that will compete with them. Ball, Stewart and Ross would all start and play major minutes for any other Big East team, and possibly any other program. However, it got me thinking, which players in the past have played sub 10 mins a game freshman year, and then ended up having big careers? Hilton, Stanley, and maybe Gavin Edwards? And what about the reverse?

 

[Excalibur]

I am so impressed with Hurley's ability to retain players who played sparingly freshman year, and on top of that, recruiting top tier talent that will compete with them. Ball, Stewart and Ross would all start and play major minutes for any other Big East team, and possibly any other program. However, it got me thinking, which players in the past have played sub 10 mins a game freshman year, and then ended up having big careers? Hilton, Stanley, and maybe Gavin Edwards? And what about the reverse?

Feel like we've had this conversation before.

Stanley played 17+ minutes per game as a freshman, so he doesn't qualify.
Armstrong was actually over 10 mpg as a freshman.
Kirk King would be a good one (less than 7 mpg as a freshman).
Kentan Facey played 4 mpg on the 2014 title team and finished his career averaging 8.5 points in 25+ minutes as a senior (on a bad team)
Niels Giffey played 9.9 and 11.7 minutes per game as a Freshman and Sophomore.
Kevin Ollie was right around 10 mpg as a freshman but it was obvious he was the heir apparent at point guard.
Donny Marshall played less than 9 mpg as a freshman and was the second best player on the 95 team.


The obvious reverse is Rashamel Jones, who went from scoring 13+ per game as a sophomore to a spot sub as a junior and senior on top teams.

 

[jibsey]

I am so impressed with Hurley's ability to retain players who played sparingly freshman year, and on top of that, recruiting top tier talent that will compete with them. Ball, Stewart and Ross would all start and play major minutes for any other Big East team, and possibly any other program. However, it got me thinking, which players in the past have played sub 10 mins a game freshman year, and then ended up having big careers? Hilton, Stanley, and maybe Gavin Edwards? And what about the reverse?

would love to see Stew breakout.

 

[upstater]

Deandre Daniels

The reverse was true for Rashamel Jones and Omar Calhoun

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

Did Hawk play more than 10 ? I thought he was just under.

 

[Excalibur]

Here’s an interesting “reverse” option. Antric Klaiber played over 13 minutes as a sophomore and junior before being pinned to the bench his senior season.

Speaking of Antric, I wonder how his deportation case ended?

 

[Excalibur]

Did Hawk play more than 10 ? I thought he was just under.

He was around 14 mpg.

 

[boog204]

Here’s an interesting “reverse” option. Antric Klaiber played over 13 minutes as a sophomore and junior before being pinned to the bench his senior season.

Speaking of Antric, I wonder how his deportation case ended?

I always kinda felt like Antric got screwed here. He was a top 50ish recruit as a skinny, stretch 4. He was not a center or an under the basket big and out of necessity he became a screener and backup 4 and 5 here. And that was so far from his skillset. It also didn't help that he started his career here like 0-20 from the field or something absurd and had some off the court stuff. He was compared to Donyell when he committed and was a big get. I honestly thought JC was going to punch him in the face during one timeout tirade.

 

[RichZ]

Speaking of Antric, I wonder how his deportation case ended?

Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696 | Casetext Search + Citator

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[HuskyWarrior611]

Deandre Daniels

The reverse was true for Rashamel Jones and Omar Calhoun

Deandre Daniels played 12 mins a game and started 12 of them.

 

[Excalibur]

Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696 | Casetext Search + Citator

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I knew about the dismissal, but didn’t know if ICE kept at it.

 

[alexd]

The obvious reverse is Rashamel Jones, who went from scoring 13+ per game as a sophomore to a spot sub as a junior and senior on top teams

Rash knew that when we got Khalid, we'd be playing him alongside Ricky Moore. He stuck around and still played a major roll. It was great to see him end up with the ball as time expired when Langdon tripped in 77-74.

 

[boog204]

Rash knew that when we got Khalid, we'd be playing him alongside Ricky Moore. He stuck around and still played a major roll. It was great to see him end up with the ball as time expired when Langdon tripped in 77-74.

Yes! Loved Rash. He had huge games for us in the BET, too, I remember. There was times he was playing at the 4, too, I think.

 

[upstater]

Deandre Daniels played 12 mins a game and started 12 of them.

Yes, but Ball is one of those mentioned as making a jump after not playing much freshman year.

Ball averaged 11.5 minutes a game and started 10 of them.

In that respect, Ball and Daniels are exactly similar.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Yes, but Ball is one of those mentioned as making a jump after not playing much freshman year.

Ball averaged 11.5 minutes a game and started 10 of them.

In that respect, Ball and Daniels are exactly similar.

They are, they started for different reasons though.

I don’t think Daniels started because of an injury. He legitimately started over guys like Roscoe Smith and Niels Giffey.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I always kinda felt like Antric got screwed here. He was a top 50ish recruit as a skinny, stretch 4. He was not a center or an under the basket big and out of necessity he became a screener and backup 4 and 5 here. And that was so far from his skillset. It also didn't help that he started his career here like 0-20 from the field or something absurd and had some off the court stuff. He was compared to Donyell when he committed and was a big get. I honestly thought JC was going to punch him in the face during one timeout tirade.

Played against him in a summer league at Conn College. He wasn’t screwed, he stunk.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696 | Casetext Search + Citator

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Thank you for posting this.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696 | Casetext Search + Citator

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Holy s. Frightening to believe you're a US citizen for 20 years (with a valid US passport that was renewed multiple times) only to have the rug pulled out from under you and face assured deportation to a country you have no connection to. Talk about ineffective counsel. It's nothing short of incredible that he was able to prevail despite the odds.

I had no idea.

"Klaiber presented this situation. Klaiber had been in the United States since he was eight-years old. Ex. 2; ECF No. 166 Tr. 71:10-17. His entire nuclear and extended family are United States Citizens. Id. at 114:3-12. For nearly four decades, he has embraced the United States as his home. Id. He knows no one in Guyana. Id. ; see also Lee , 137 S. Ct. at 1963 (petitioner immigrated at the age of 13 and has lived here for three decades); see id. at 1968 (entire family lived in the U.S. and has no ties to home country); Swaby , 855 F.3d at 243 (noting defendant has "long familial ties to the United States, including a wife and children").

Accordingly, and understandably, Klaiber also confirmed that his desire to remain in this country was of "paramount importance." Lee , 137 S. Ct. at 1965 ; ECF No. 166 Tr. 114:3-20 ("t's been a complete shock and a life-changing situation for me .... I'm fighting for my life right now.")."

 

[dennismenace]

Rash knew that when we got Khalid, we'd be playing him alongside Ricky Moore. He stuck around and still played a major roll. It was great to see him end up with the ball as time expired when Langdon tripped in 77-74.

Rash is one of the finest examples of a young man accepting a situation and making the best of it. Truly unselfish and fine example of great character. Made a heck of an impression on everyone at that time and to this day.

 

[temery]

Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Klaiber v. United States, 471 F. Supp. 3d 696, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

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TL:dr.

III. Conclusion​

In sum, Klaiber has prevailed on his ineffective assistance of counsel claims. His conviction cannot stand. See Ross v. Wolfe , 942 F. Supp. 2d 573, 580 (D. Md. 2013) (quoting Lockhart, 474 U.S. at 56, 106 S.Ct. 366 ). The Petition is, therefore, GRANTED and his convictions are VACATED.

 

[Methalius]

I am so impressed with Hurley's ability to retain players who played sparingly freshman year, and on top of that, recruiting top tier talent that will compete with them. Ball, Stewart and Ross would all start and play major minutes for any other Big East team, and possibly any other program. However, it got me thinking, which players in the past have played sub 10 mins a game freshman year, and then ended up having big careers? Hilton, Stanley, and maybe Gavin Edwards? And what about the reverse?

The 2023-24 Huskies were LOADED with talent and they had 2 Graduate Seniors in Spencer and Newton. As talented as they are do you think or did you think that Ball, Ross or Stewart should have started or logged additional minutes over what they did? I think 5 years ago all 3 of them would have started for the Huskies or would have been key contributors off of the bench. Thanks to what Hurley and his staff have built we now have an embarrassment of riches especially at wing. I think now we will start to see more of a next up or wait your turn mentality. Even in this transfer/NIL era. If you want to develop and play at the Basketball Capital of the World unless you are Castle or McNeeley, you are going to have to wait your turn.

 

[knicksin7]

Feel like we've had this conversation before.

Stanley played 17+ minutes per game as a freshman, so he doesn't qualify.
Armstrong was actually over 10 mpg as a freshman.
Kirk King would be a good one (less than 7 mpg as a freshman).
Kentan Facey played 4 mpg on the 2014 title team and finished his career averaging 8.5 points in 25+ minutes as a senior (on a bad team)
Niels Giffey played 9.9 and 11.7 minutes per game as a Freshman and Sophomore.
Kevin Ollie was right around 10 mpg as a freshman but it was obvious he was the heir apparent at point guard.
Donny Marshall played less than 9 mpg as a freshman and was the second best player on the 95 team.


The obvious reverse is Rashamel Jones, who went from scoring 13+ per game as a sophomore to a spot sub as a junior and senior on top teams.

I relied on Chat GPT to create a table - I guess it did not work!

 

[Excalibur]

Holy s. Frightening to believe you're a US citizen for 20 years (with a valid US passport that was renewed multiple times) only to have the rug pulled out from under you and face assured deportation to a country you have no connection to. Talk about ineffective counsel. It's nothing short of incredible that he was able to prevail despite the odds.

I had no idea.

"Klaiber presented this situation. Klaiber had been in the United States since he was eight-years old. Ex. 2; ECF No. 166 Tr. 71:10-17. His entire nuclear and extended family are United States Citizens. Id. at 114:3-12. For nearly four decades, he has embraced the United States as his home. Id. He knows no one in Guyana. Id. ; see also Lee , 137 S. Ct. at 1963 (petitioner immigrated at the age of 13 and has lived here for three decades); see id. at 1968 (entire family lived in the U.S. and has no ties to home country); Swaby , 855 F.3d at 243 (noting defendant has "long familial ties to the United States, including a wife and children").

Accordingly, and understandably, Klaiber also confirmed that his desire to remain in this country was of "paramount importance." Lee , 137 S. Ct. at 1965 ; ECF No. 166 Tr. 114:3-20 ("t's been a complete shock and a life-changing situation for me .... I'm fighting for my life right now.")."

Klaiber’s case was an obviously overzealous ICE agent who didn’t bother to read the government’s stipulation that Klaiber was to be treated as a U.S. citizen. Government’s counsel should have been disbarred or sanctioned for even attempting to make the claim, and the judge chickened out by dismissing based on the ineffective assistance of counsel route.

 

[Mike Honcho]

Klaiber’s case was an obviously overzealous ICE agent who didn’t bother to read the government’s stipulation that Klaiber was to be treated as a U.S. citizen. Government’s counsel should have been disbarred or sanctioned for even attempting to make the claim, and the judge chickened out by dismissing based on the ineffective assistance of counsel route.

I'm no lawyer but I read that whole brief and this was not my takeaway. The immigration attorney that his court appointed lawyer hired did come to the right conclusion a decade earlier, it's just that she failed to properly communicate that to Antric, along with the important detail that if he pleads guilty to the drug felonies as a non-citizen he would be automatically deported.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm no lawyer but I read that whole brief and this was not my takeaway. The immigration attorney that his court appointed lawyer hired did come to the right conclusion a decade earlier, it's just that she failed to properly communicate that to Antric, along with the important detail that if he pleads guilty to the drug felonies as a non-citizen he would be automatically deported.

“As Stelzig had urged, the final PSR confirmed that "[a]ccording to ICE, the defendant is a U.S. citizen."

“After Klaiber's sentencing, Stelzig emailed Ragland (ICE agent) to inform him that Klaiber's case concluded with the PSR determining that Klaiber was a United States citizen. ECF No. 158 Tr. 163:3-21. Ragland, responded that this confirmation was "sufficient." Ex. 169. When asked at the evidentiary hearing what he meant by "sufficient," Ragland explained that a "person is a citizen only if the government says so," and that ICE officials had confirmed as much.”