Liberty wakes up; plays Nurse!!!!!

[SVCBeercats]

I was thinking today the Liberty is playing terrible. Why is Nurse not playing. She is the future. The so-called veterans aren't getting it done. So Nurse gets 26 minutes and 25 points!!!!!!!!!

BENCH      MIN    FG    3PT    FT    REB    AST    STL     PTS
K. Nurse    26   7-11   4-6   7-7     2      2      1      25

 

[EricLA]

In fairness, and this is just my impression from seeing the games and box scores, she has not done much with her time on the court in the past 3-5 games or so. If she produces like she did today, they won't be able to keep her off the court...

 

[SVCBeercats]

In fairness, and this is just my impression from seeing the games and box scores, she has not done much with her time on the court in the past 3-5 games or so. If she produces like she did today, they won't be able to keep her off the court...

She played 30-31 minutes in the last three games 2 minutes here, 3 minutes there. Put her in for 25 minutes and let develop. SOme of veteran guards aren't getting any better. They picked in the first round and she proved herself before the veteran guards showed. The vets can come off the bench develop your 1st round pick.

 

[Shorty Dee]

Kia had a nice game against Dallas. I really thought New York Liberty would have a better season.

 

[bballnut90]

In fairness, and this is just my impression from seeing the games and box scores, she has not done much with her time on the court in the past 3-5 games or so. If she produces like she did today, they won't be able to keep her off the court...

Today was the most aggressive I’ve seen her play. Had a couple of good takes to the basket and a step back three. She really looked for her shot and was quite active offensively. Last 5-10 games she has been very passive and didn’t seem to flow with her teammates. I think she’s their best guard if she’s looking to score and knows she needs to put up points. Has to be somewhat of a weird dynamic competing for PT with a bunch of vets on a struggling team and trying to figure out her role on the court. Smith doesn’t strike me as the best coach either to manage this, which can make Nurse’s situation more difficult. I think Smith should give Kia big minutes since she’s been effective when she gets them, or just bench her if she isn’t effective right away since Kia’s had a lot of “all or nothing” type of performances, which is quite common with rookies.

 

[Jaybird65]

Heard Katie Smith say in an interview blip on one of the sports talking head shows that Kia has hit the rookie wall coming off a long collegiate season; she's feeling run down physically & mentally; trying to work through it & recharge. I don't think this is surprising since she plays so hard all of the time.

 

[Roger G]

She played a great game. Her last shot was terrific. A great move and a shot with authority.

 

[oldude]

Heard Katie Smith say in an interview blip on one of the sports talking head shows that Kia has hit the rookie wall coming off a long collegiate season; she's feeling run down physically & mentally; trying to work through it & recharge. I don't think this is surprising since she plays so hard all of the time.

You highlight a real problem with the WNBA and women’s basketball. Almost immediately after the end of the collegiate season, players get drafted and they’re on the court as professionals in the WNBA. Right after the end of the WNBA season, players are overseas playing internationally. Throw in Worlds & Olympics for the very best, and there is very little down time for players to rest, recover and recharge from an increasingly physical game.

Just thinking back to 2016, UConn’s Big 3 were coming off their 4th straight national championship. Stewie, Mo & Tuck were the first 3 picks in the draft. All of them were soon dealing with injuries that required surgery and/or lengthy rehabilitation.

I think it’s great that the NBA subsidizes professional WBB in the US. But the real money is overseas. DT and other top players have wrestled with this dilemma, alternately skipping either the WNBA season or the international season. Top WBB players are the only professional athletes that realistically have to play year round to maximize their earnings, promotional opportunities and continue to be eligible to participate on national teams.

 

[Carnac]

I was thinking today the Liberty is playing terrible. Why is Nurse not playing. She is the future. The so-called veterans aren't getting it done. So Nurse gets 26 minutes and 25 points!!!!!!!!!

BENCH      MIN    FG    3PT    FT    REB    AST    STL     PTS
K. Nurse    26   7-11   4-6   7-7     2      2      1      25

Why not let Nurse play? The Liberty are stalled, and going nowhere. Let Kia get as many minutes under her belt for however many games they have left. Those extra minutes will make her a little bit better next year.

There's no substitute for experience. The Liberty ARE a 2019 draft lottery pick team this year. I say let her start the rest of the year, they have absolutely nothing to lose. As Beercats said, she is the future, and the future will arrive sooner than you think.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

In fairness, and this is just my impression from seeing the games and box scores, she has not done much with her time on the court in the past 3-5 games or so. If she produces like she did today, they won't be able to keep her off the court...

She played 30-31 minutes in the last three games 2 minutes here, 3 minutes there. Put her in for 25 minutes and let develop. SOme of veteran guards aren't getting any better. They picked in the first round and she proved herself before the veteran guards showed. The vets can come off the bench develop your 1st round pick.

Kia Nurse is averaging 8.8 ppg (3rd best on the Liberty), while shooting 40.1 percent from the floor, 31.2 percent from three, and 86.4 percent from the line. She plays 20.6 minutes per game off the bench.

The thing is that Nurse scored 34 points and 25 points in two games (29.5 ppg). In her other 20 games, she scored 134 points (6.7 ppg). And in those other 20 games, she shot 44-120 (36.67 percent) from the floor and 17-63 (26.98 percent from three) while playing 19.35 minutes per game -- which is a pretty decent sample size.

And if you look at NY's lineups, you will see that the minutes per game are pretty well distributed at the shooting guard/wing positions:

Epiphanny Prince - 20.1 minutes per game
Kia Nurse - 20.6 minutes per game
Shavonte Zellous - 24.7 minutes per game

The other key is that Prince and Zellous give more in other areas. Prince, for example, averages 9.1 ppg, but also is shooting 45 percent from three. Zellous is not shooting well from three, but she averages 3.0 rebounds (to Nurse's 2.1) and 3.1 assists (to Nurse's 1.5), in only 4 minutes more per game.

The keys for Kia, going forward, are to contribute in other areas when the ball is not in her hands and to develop consistency with her shooting. This is not a result of a lack of playing time; this is what happens at the next level, in terms of having to make adjustments to playing against great players every night.

 

[Rixxx]

I missed the second quarter. Is that when Kia started to light it up? When I returned, she had 18 points and I didn't recall seeing all those points.
Where is Katie Smith going to find minutes for Coleman when she is ready? I assume she will play some the rest of the season. I too agree, let's pay Kia.

 

[baggerbob]

Why not let Nurse play? The Liberty are stalled, and going nowhere. Let Kia get as many minutes under her belt For however many games they have left. Those extra minutes will make her a little bit better next year. There's no substitute for experience. The Liberty are a draft lottery pick team this year. I say let her start the rest of the year. As Beercats said, she is the future, and the future will arrive sooner than you think.

Prince, Rogers, Zellous, and Coleman are near the end of their careers, as is Vaughn, so play the younger players.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Prince, Rogers, Zellous, and Coleman are near the end of their careers, as is Vaughn, so play the younger players.

Prince - 30 years old
Rodgers - 28 years old
Zellous - 31 years old
Coleman - 31 years old
Vaughn - 31 years old

I think it is a big difference between 28-31, as opposed to 35 and up. If Rogers (28) and Prince (30) are "near the end of their careers," so are Maya Moore (29) and Tina Charles (29).

 

[SVCBeercats]

"CamrnCrz1974, post: 2785428, member: 1052"]And if you look at NY's lineups, you will see that the minutes per game are pretty well distributed at the shooting guard/wing positions:
Epiphanny Prince - 20.1 minutes per game
Kia Nurse - 20.6 minutes per game
Shavonte Zellous - 24.7 minutes per game
This is not a result of a lack of playing time; this is what happens at the next level, in terms of having to make adjustments to playing against great players every night.

My complaint was in the 6 games prior to the Dallas game she was averaging 11:11 per game. Liberty is going nowhere so play the kid and let her learn. Besides she does give in other areas as in her defense is better than most of the other guards.

 

[Carnac]

Prince, Rogers, Zellous, and Coleman are near the end of their careers, as is Vaughn, so play the younger players.

True. Kia will still be in the league after all of the players mentioned above are gone. Just for fun, go back and look at the first round draft picks from the last 6-7 years, and see how many of them are still in the league. Hardly any 2nd rounders left. Unless you are an "established" star (Maya, Dee, Candace Parker, Nneka O, EDD, K. McBride, etc. in the W, your spot on a roster is not guaranteed. There are 36 new draftees coming in to the league every year wanting desperately to make a roster, along with the undrafted free agents, and former WNBA players looking to get back into the league. If you're a reserve, you have to fight hard for a roster spot every year.

 

[baggerbob]

True. Kia will still be in the league after all of the players mentioned above are gone. Just for fun, go back and look at the first round draft picks from the last 6-7 years, and see how many of them are still in the league. Hardly any 2nd rounders left. Unless you are an "established" star (Maya, Dee, Candace Parker, Nneka O, EDD, K. McBride, etc. in the W, your spot on a roster is not guaranteed. There are 36 new draftees coming in to the league every year wanting desperately to make a roster, along with the undrafted free agents, and former WNBA players looking to get back into the league. If you're a reserve, you have to fight hard for a roster spot every year.

The other reason is the veterans aren't making the Liberty a better team, since they came back the wheels have fallen off. If you are going to lose, see if the younger players can make you a better team. Katie needs to build for the future, not live in the past.

 

[bbsamjj]

To follow up on CamrnCrz's post, the Liberty guards' stats are actually incredibly similar overall. I've put in bold who has the best stat among the four below.

Prince: 20.1mpg, 9.1ppg, 1.7rpg, 1.8apg, 40.2% FG, 45% 3-pt FG, 86.4% FT
Nurse: 20.6mpg, 8.8ppg, 2.1rpg, 1.5apg, 40.1% FG, 31.2% 3-pt FG, 86.4% FT
Hartley: 23.6mpg, 8.6ppg, 3rpg, 3.6apg, 42.5% FG, 33.8% 3-pt FG, 68.8% FT
Zellous: 24.7mpg, 8.5ppg, 3rpg, 3.1apg, 42.6% FG, 27.6% 3-pt FG, 74.5% FT

Sugar Rodgers is not having a comparable year stats wise, but she's also only playing 15mpg.

Based on the above, it's hard to argue that Nurse isn't playing enough (her playing time is similar to the other vet guards) or that she should necessarily be playing more (in every category but FT shooting, there is another guard outperforming her). I get the argument that if the Liberty are doomed to fail this year, why not just let Nurse get a ton of experience, but if she's truly hit a wall, letting her flounder on her own isn't helpful either.

 

[Carnac]

To follow up on CamrnCrz's post, the Liberty guards' stats are actually incredibly similar overall. I've put in bold who has the best stat among the four below.

Prince: 20.1mpg, 9.1ppg, 1.7rpg, 1.8apg, 40.2% FG, 45% 3-pt FG, 86.4% FT
Nurse: 20.6mpg, 8.8ppg, 2.1rpg, 1.5apg, 40.1% FG, 31.2% 3-pt FG, 86.4% FT
Hartley: 23.6mpg, 8.6ppg, 3rpg, 3.6apg, 42.5% FG, 33.8% 3-pt FG, 68.8% FT
Zellous: 24.7mpg, 8.5ppg, 3rpg, 3.1apg, 42.6% FG, 27.6% 3-pt FG, 74.5% FT

Sugar Rodgers is not having a comparable year stats wise, but she's also only playing 15mpg.

Based on the above, it's hard to argue that Nurse isn't playing enough (her playing time is similar to the other vet guards) or that she should necessarily be playing more (in every category but FT shooting, there is another guard outperforming her). I get the argument that if the Liberty are doomed to fail this year, why not just let Nurse get at on of experience, but if she's truly hit a wall, letting her flounder on her own isn't helpful either.

IF she's hit the wall, I would agree. I've been following the Liberty closely the last 3 years. I like all of their players but, I like Kia too, and want to see her get the opportunity to do well, and get more reps.

Looking at your graph, it appears that Kia is getting her share of minutes. After looking at the standings, I see that the Liberty are 7-15 (12 games left on their schedule), in 10th place and out of the playoffs.

Effective with the 2016 season, the WNBA implemented changes to playoff seeding and qualification procedures as well as the postseason format. Under the new postseason structure, the eight teams with the highest winning percentages regardless of conference qualify for the playoffs and are seeded based on their record.

Additional features of the reconfigured playoff structure are as follows:

• The number of playoff rounds increased from three to four. The top two seeds receive a bye to the semifinals (third round), and the third and fourth seeds receive a bye to the second round.

• Teams will be re-seeded after each postseason round.

• The first and second rounds are single elimination. In the first round, the No. 5 seed hosts the No. 8 seed and the No. 6 seed hosts the No. 7 seed. In the second round, the No. 3 seed hosts the lowest-seeded first-round winner and the No. 4 seed hosts the other first-round winner.

• The semifinals feature a best-of-five format, with the No. 1 overall seed playing the lowest remaining seed and the No. 2 overall seed meeting the remaining team. The Nos. 1 and 2 seeds will host Games 1, 2 and 5, and the lower-seeded teams will host Games 3 and 4 in their respective series. The WNBA Finals remain best-of-five and follow the same 2-2-1 format.

Just because I would like to see them do that does not mean they should, just something I as a fan would like to see them do. We want ALL of our (UConn) young ladies do well. From Sue Bird (the oldest UConn alum in the league - 2002 draft, and the last remaining player still active from her draft class, to the rookies Nurse and Gabby Williams.

 

[baggerbob]

The top 8 teams regardless of conference make the playoffs. The Liberty have little chance, so build for the future.