Let's talk punt returns

[CTMike]

Noeynox is dead on! Go back and watch tape of our punt returns. There is literally no blocking scheme in place to set up a return. Watch the Marshall game, we have a second tier of three players about 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Not sure what their job is as they literally just stand there and watch Marshall players run past them at full speed. It all starts with blocking!!

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Its not even about who the returner is. They haven't set up for a return all year. There was generally no blocking scheme, no wall set up. They blocked for 1-2 seconds at the line and that was it. It didn't matter who was back there. It appears that the return man was told to field the punt with a fair catch. Period.

agreed, that's what it looks like. But here's the thing - Vitale was on the weekly radio program a few weeks ago with Joe D. He was specifically asked about his decision making on the field when it comes to fielding punts and he was very specific about his progression. Unless he was told to lie on the radio, he said he's got the choice to return a punt on every kick. He's using visual skills and instinct to determine if he should fair catch or return a kick or not. He's got cues he's using to determine that. The fact that he's seeing people running at him in his peripheral vision while focusing on the ball, was a big part of it. As it always should be. Is it any wonder he's fair catching everything if we're not blocking?

Here's the thing though too - if not for fair catches - we most likely don't win the game in New Orleans. HUGE part of that game. So the punt return game contributed hugely, to at least one win this season in squeezing out the bowl game.

DIaco? I wanted to wring this guy's neck last year with his approach, and the only reason he can rebuild the way he's going about it UCONN is because we don't have the fan and alumni base to put up enough of an uproar based on what he did last season. But he's got a plan and it's working. Sometimes when people with good plans and understanding and leadership do things, good things happen by accident. I have no idea if there is a plan for a punt game or not - but I'll tell you this - based on what I heard that kid say on the radio, there is potential for good things to happen as we recruit back up to speed with numbers and talent, and start to play every detail of the game - including punt returns.

Given the way that Vitale developed over the season, and that we get I think another year out of him, and that other players have got to be practicing the same way - when we actually do start blocking, and there aren't people running down on him (or anyone else) in their field of vision, they'll be well practiced in actually making the catch and securing the ball, before starting to run.

That's an important part of the punt return don't ya think? Making the catch and securing the ball? Because chances are you're going to get hit hard, quick, if you don't make the first guy miss.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Bingo.

 

[Carl Spackler]

[

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

I seem to recall a problem with blocking on PAT's at some point. That's when the guys are lined up in right in front of you, and everybody moves together off the snap - never mind setting up in a full field while running full speed.

 

[noeynox]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Mike your a great poster, but UCF was horrendous this year and the managed 200 yds in punt return yardage this year. You can't convince me our talent and depth is that much worse than theirs that the we can only muster 2yds by comparison.

I think @Carl Spackler nailed it. Diaco took this year to fundamentally practice securing punt returns. My guess is next year you will start seeing returns.

I get we are lacking depth, but the roster is not entirely constructed of 175 lb walkons either. I think it has more to do with approach than anything else.

 

[Confident Carl]

Do we have anybody on our roster or coming in that can return punts? As constructed, none of our current players could do it.. Instead of having punt returners we had designated fair catchers.. Does that make sense? When the goal of a football team to be complete is to be able to perform on offense, defense and on special teams? I know we're still only going into year 3, but do we have anybody (somebody) we can look towards who could potentially provide that ability to at least having opposing teams fear us with the ability to take it to the house? Just sayin... A designated faircatcher? huh???

Quayvon Skanes looks like a candidate.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Mike your a great poster, but UCF was horrendous this year and the managed 200 yds in punt return yardage this year. You can't convince me our talent and depth is that much worse than theirs that the we can only muster 2yds by comparison.

I think @Carl Spackler nailed it. Diaco took this year to fundamentally practice securing punt returns. My guess is next year you will start seeing returns.

I get we are lacking depth, but the roster is not entirely constructed of 175 lb walkons either. I think it has more to do with approach than anything else.

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

 

[CTMike]

I think the only rational hope is that this year was another foundational / development year and that next year we've reached basic proficiency and can resume normal returns.

 

[noeynox]

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

No, I don't think he was brain dead. Just saying it was choice to totally disregard punt returns. Even a much worse roster like the one at ucf could muster some semblance of a return game.

Like I said I believe Spackler nailed it, it was a developmental choice. Perhaps to limit turnovers. You don't need as many big OL types for punt returns like you need for PATs. You need more LB types for punt returns so the 2 comparisons are not apples to apples.

 

[Palatine]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Because virtually every other college team does it. Or, at least, attempts it.

 

[Carl Spackler]

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

Interesting questions and points. There is only so much time that players and coaches have per week to be in contact and practice and it's highly regulated - if you're going to follow rules.

It's quite reasonable and logical to conclude that the amount of practice time and practice periods dedicated to practicing punt returns as an 11 man unit was minimized in an effort to focus more time on something else. Why that decision would have been made is up for speculation, and if that was the case, whether or not it will change next season is a good question.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No, I don't think he was brain dead. Just saying it was choice to totally disregard punt returns. Even a much worse roster like the one at ucf could muster some semblance of a return game.

Like I said I believe Spackler nailed it, it was a developmental choice. Perhaps to limit turnovers. You don't need as many big OL types for punt returns like you need for PATs. You need more LB types for punt returns so the 2 comparisons are not apples to apples.

Just to be clear, I did write that I have no idea if it was planned, or if it happened by accident, but I do think that we'll have players that are actually better prepared to actually return kicks, IF we set up decent blocking on return units - based on the way things happened this season - and my interpretation comes just from listening to our actual punt returner talk.

 

[Palatine]

Interesting questions and points. There is only so much time that players and coaches have per week to be in contact and practice and it's highly regulated - if you're going to follow rules.

It's quite reasonable and logical to conclude that the amount of practice time and practice periods dedicated to practicing punt returns as an 11 man unit was minimized in an effort to focus more time on something else. Why that decision would have been made is up for speculation, and if that was the case, whether or not it will change next season is a good question.

Once again, other college teams are able to work punt return drills into their practice week. That includes lower levels of college football like DII and DIII who have less time to practice.

Reading this thread you would think the Huskies are a nonathletic group of mental deficients that are not up to the task of blocking for punt returns. Which I do not believe is the case. I agree this is a choice by Diaco. But I find it a strange one.

I wish one of the media covering the team would ask Bob about this, but that's probably asking too much.

 

[hardcorehusky]

If you win two of the three phases - you can win games. SO that means if you win with defense and special teams, you can have a UCONN like offense and win close games. Not shootouts, but low scoring games.
Here is why I think Diaco went from not trying to win games in 14 to moderately trying to win games in 15.
In 14, Diaco claims he was building infrastructure and a way of living.
In 15, Diaco relied on his defense and improved on the offense - the QB was better(not Cochran), and we moved the ball better but could not finish off drives. The special teams started off abysmally and ultimately, we could kick extra points and field goals.
But here is why it is moderately, we don't try to block punts and we don't return punts. IF we actually set up blocks for punts and got let's say 10 yards every 4 th kick, that could translate in a shorter field and maybe at least an extra field goal attempt or even a touchdown as opposed to fg. My point is winning the game of field position is not just having your punter average 37 yards a kick with the return factored in. You have to help with punt return yardage, coverage, etc.

Randy Edsall, except for the Orlovsky years, relied on defense and special teams and look what he was able to accomplish. We couldn't throw the ball consistently, but we could run and we could defend and we had killer special teams.

I watched Poe from Army- who is slow, return a kick against Navy for 45-50 yards because the blocking was executed perfectly. I don't buy we don't have talent - we might not have 5* Madden types who can create on their own, but we do have athletes who can (as Hank Stram used to say) matriculate up the field.

In 16, Diaco better account for punt returns, because some of the close games can be turned by a little better field position. If he wants to win 8 games plus and a title, we have to be at least competant in all 3 phases. Rant over.

 

[J187Money]

I wish one of the media covering the team would ask Bob about this, but that's probably asking too much.

I can at least agree with Palatine on something.

 

[Carl Spackler]

We were a Deshon Foxx punt return for a TD agsinst Stony Brook, and a November nor'easter away from 0-12 last season.

I highly doubt that we have coaches that don't understand football.

Last season, 2014, was a full season of division of reps and division of practice time periods thst turned games into 60 minute evaluation scrimmages.

If in this 2015 season just concluded, sacrificing punt return practice periods was determined necessary to prepare prooperly to actually compete. I'm fine with it. I would have been fine with it before the season, and I certainly am now, because we squeezed a bowl game out. They had to sdjust something with PAT's practice and it worked. They had to take practice time away from something else to make thst happen - maybe it was practice period time allocated for 11 man punt return blocking that got sacrificed? Couldn't be. These coaches have no idea whst they're doing snd they are mismanaging our loaded roster -according to the insiders on the boneyard.

If adding the sacrificed punt return practice periods is the only aspect of the game and the only thing we need to incorporate into a complete team practice week, and not take away more important practice time elsewhere next year, to actuslly have a competitive team (like the frigging offense) for 2016, that would be great.

 

[Palatine]

We were a Deshon Foxx punt return for a TD agsinst Stony Brook, and a November nor'easter away from 0-12 last season.

All the more reason to work on creating a healthy return game.

I highly doubt that we have coaches that don't understand football.

Has anyone said that or anything remotely like it?

Last season, 2014, was a full season of division of reps and division of practice time periods thst turned games into 60 minute evaluation scrimmages.

Which called into question Diaco's judgement as many first year coaches are successful. But this thread is not about that.

If in this 2015 season just concluded, sacrificing punt return practice periods was determined necessary to prepare prooperly to actually compete. I'm fine with it.

I'm not. I think Diaco vastly under estimates the abilities of these players. They competed with Missouri, BYU and beat Houston.

I would have been fine with it before the season, and I certainly am now, because we squeezed a bowl game out. They had to sdjust something with PAT's practice and it worked.

PATs were never a problem before Diaco. He fixed something that wasn't broken until he appeared.

They had to take practice time away from something else to make thst happen - maybe it was practice period time allocated for 11 man punt return blocking that got sacrificed? Couldn't be.

I don't think so. BP got into a bad habit and failed to elevate the ball. It could have been solved with a five minute conversation. The idea this was some huge deal that need to be addressed and cut into practice time doesn't really wash.

These coaches have no idea whst they're doing snd they are mismanaging our loaded roster -according to the insiders on the boneyard.

Once again, this is a straw man that you are creating. Most posters virtually libel our players and their abilities. The roster isn't loaded but it isn't completely incompetent either. As I pointed out they competed with Missouri, BYU and beat Houston. The truth is in the middle.

If adding the sacrificed punt return practice periods is the only aspect of the game and the only thing we need to incorporate into a complete team practice week, and not take away more important practice time elsewhere next year, to actuslly have a competitive team (like the frigging offense) for 2016, that would be great.

The concept is absurd. The previous year under Diaco we averaged 6+ yards per return. We took a dramatic step backward this year. Why did Diaco have enough time to teach punt blocking in 2014 and then in his second year not have enough time? It's a non sequitur. It's also a complete conundrum. As is your defense of it.

Look, I am not a Diaco hater. I wish him every success. But it is reasonable to question his method when he produces a punt return team that finishes dead last in the BCS. I question many of the things he does and the choices he makes. I have a higher opinion of our players than most on this board. I think 6-6 is the floor not the ceiling. I thought that under P and I think it under BD.

To me the biggest impediment to a better record is Diaco's game planning, adjustments, and game management skills. They have not been very good. They need to get better. That will make the biggest improvement in the team.

 

[Nostical]

To me the biggest impediment to a better record is Diaco's game planning, adjustments, and game management skills. They have not been very good. They need to get better. That will make the biggest improvement in the team.[/I][/B]

Agree

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I'm still flabbergasted that Pal & Nos haven't landed head coaching gigs by now.

 

[whaler11]

Interesting questions and points. There is only so much time that players and coaches have per week to be in contact and practice and it's highly regulated - if you're going to follow rules.

It's quite reasonable and logical to conclude that the amount of practice time and practice periods dedicated to practicing punt returns as an 11 man unit was minimized in an effort to focus more time on something else. Why that decision would have been made is up for speculation, and if that was the case, whether or not it will change next season is a good question.

Ding ding ding. If you are going to ignore something this would be what to ignore. Especially if you don't think you have anyone who gives you confidence will make plays or not turn the ball over.

No point in turning the ball over or committing penalties if there isn't any reward.

 

[whaler11]

The guy took a tire fire and made them respectible in two years. On paper he's outrecruiting prior coaches in a tougher situation.

And people want to spend a week pi**ing and moaning about punt returns.

A 6-6 team isn't perfect. FILM AT ELEVEN!!!!

 

[Nostical]

I'm still flabbergasted that Pal & Nos haven't landed head coaching gigs by now.

Did the Phila Eagles job just come open?

 

[Palatine]

Ding ding ding. If you are going to ignore something this would be what to ignore. Especially if you don't think you have anyone who gives you confidence will make plays or not turn the ball over.

No point in turning the ball over or committing penalties if there isn't any reward.

Do you really think there isn't time to practice special teams -of which punt returning would be part? Really, you believe that?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Do you really think there isn't time to practice special teams -of which punt returning would be part? Really, you believe that?

There is a cap on practice time. If other areas are in need of the extra work (and clearly, they were), then I'm fine with what he did. You can believe whatever you want. It's usually divorced from reality anyway.

 

[J187Money]

Do you really think there isn't time to practice special teams -of which punt returning would be part? Really, you believe that?

Of course there is time. But if you determine that the only guys (who aren't RS) that could do it are on the offense (which also stinks), where would you spend your time?

 

[Brettloaf]

I kind of like the no punt returns. I think it would hopefully allow us to just secure the ball. It's better to have the ball than a possible turnover even with our anemic offense. I think we may not return many punts because we do not have the right personnel to really try to set up a good return. Hoping next year we will see the development to be able to get a healthy return game going.

 

[Drew]

I kind of like the no punt returns. I think it would hopefully allow us to just secure the ball. It's better to have the ball than a possible turnover even with our anemic offense. I think we may not return many punts because we do not have the right personnel to really try to set up a good return. Hoping next year we will see the development to be able to get a healthy return game going.

Agreed that this year we didn't have a dynamic return man which lead to us just securing punts rather than aggressively pursuing returns. Thinking maybe Skanes can be this guy for us next year

 

[Palatine]

I kind of like the no punt returns. I think it would hopefully allow us to just secure the ball. It's better to have the ball than a possible turnover even with our anemic offense. I think we may not return many punts because we do not have the right personnel to really try to set up a good return. Hoping next year we will see the development to be able to get a healthy return game going.

It guarantees that we lose the field position battle. So, if like Diaco, you have chosen to play conservative offense and depend on your defense, it puts you behind the eight ball. It is a self-defeating strategy

 

[whaler11]

It guarantees that we lose the field position battle. So, if like Diaco, you have chosen to play conservative offense and depend on your defense, it puts you behind the eight ball. It is a self-defeating strategy

If you believe dumb assumptions I guess you can draw conclusions about what is guaranteed.

Christ even the fox stopped trying to reach the grapes when they were too high.

 

[Palatine]

If you believe dumb assumptions I guess you can draw conclusions about what is guaranteed.

Christ even the fox stopped trying to reach the grapes when they were too high.

You're not even making sense. If you are defense oriented, you need to win special teams. This is football not fables.