Let's clear up some myths about the Fiesta Bowl

[Jimmy Serrano]

Yup. If enough people say that the world is flat, people start to believe it. Including TV Execs, school Presidents, and conference commissioners.

So TV executives, university presidents, and conference commissioners, who draw 6 or 7 figure salaries, are going to be fooled by some hack reporters on twitter while message board posters can figure out what really happened? Sorry, no sale.

 

[Dooley]

So TV executives, university presidents, and conference commissioners, who draw 6 or 7 figure salaries, are going to be fooled by some hack reporters on twitter while message board posters can figure out what really happened? Sorry, no sale.

The story I linked was from the AP, as in the Associated Press. Not a twitter hack. Not a guy on his Droid in his mama's basement. Not a low level car wash employee who heard from a bar of soap that UConn doesn't draw. The Associated Press. You know, actual journalists who hide behind an oath of professional objectivism to influence people. Don't you think ESPN and other TV outlets have a relationship with the Associated Press? Don't you think that, over the course of the past 5 years, the message that the AP sent to press a few days ago has been hashed over at those same TV outlets?? Journalists have relationships with one another. And yes, the folks who work at ESPN consider themselves "sports journalists". You have your head buried in the sand if you don't think so.

 

[J187Money]

The story I linked was from the AP, as in the Associated Press. Not a twitter hack. Not a guy on his Droid in his mama's basement. Not a low level car wash employee who heard from a bar of soap that UConn doesn't draw. The Associated Press. You know, actual journalists who hide behind an oath of professional objectivism to influence people. Don't you think ESPN and other TV outlets have a relationship with the Associated Press? Don't you think that, over the course of the past 5 years, the message that the AP sent to press a few days ago has been hashed over at those same TV outlets?? Journalists have relationships with one another. And yes, the folks who work at ESPN consider themselves "sports journalists". You have your head buried in the sand if you don't think so.

I think you are all missing the point:

If, in the eyes of the bowls, the criteria for "traveling well" is that fans buy the tickets through the school - and the fans don't buy the tickets through the school, the school does not "travel well" no matter how many people end up in the stadium. It's great that 5/8/10K people bought tickets on StubHub etc. And it didn't matter to the Fiesta Bowl in that instance per se, because it was sold out regardless given it was tied to the NC game. BUT, if you are the operator of another bowl, and you look at what happened, you can draw the following conclusions:

- UCONN is a tough sell when it is not an East Coast bowl
- UCONN fans are very price sensitive (which seems counterintuitive given that CT is regarded as one of the richest states in the country)
- UCONN fans may not buy tickets through the school in large numbers, meaning that if you have a bowl that doesn't sell out you may end up with a lots of fans buying through resellers thereby lowering your revenue
- UCONN fans are more interested in their own cost than supporting the school (i.e. if the school loses $2M that's fine as long as I save $200 as an example)
- UCONN fans don't love football nearly as much as they love basketball

It would be VERY difficult to dispute ANY of these things. BTW I don't think that means that UCONN fans have it wrong, as it comes to maximizing the event for their own enjoyment / economics. However, if there are rules to a game, and you don't follow them, you don't get to whine about the outcome - if you don't have the power to change the game.

And in a VACUUM, we can say that UCONN did a great job supporting the team. But when UCONN is compared to USC / WISCONSIN / TEXAS / ETC... we look like a bush league fan base. And if you don't think so, you aren't paying attention.

 

[Santini35]

I think you are all missing the point:

If, in the eyes of the bowls, the criteria for "traveling well" is that fans buy the tickets through the school

So Oklahoma must be a school that doesn't travel well either seeing as they sold a whopping 967 tickets more than we did....

 

[Santini35]

The real problem with that AP article is that they didn't include the OU side as well, as a counter example of how one conference absorbed the loss and one didnt. The fact that in a story about that exact topic he didn't bring that up makes me think that maybe he was writting out of his parents basement, AP or not.

 

[Dooley]

I think you are all missing the point:

If, in the eyes of the bowls, the criteria for "traveling well" is that fans buy the tickets through the school - and the fans don't buy the tickets through the school, the school does not "travel well" no matter how many people end up in the stadium. It's great that 5/8/10K people bought tickets on StubHub etc. And it didn't matter to the Fiesta Bowl in that instance per se, because it was sold out regardless given it was tied to the NC game. BUT, if you are the operator of another bowl, and you look at what happened, you can draw the following conclusions:

- UCONN is a tough sell when it is not an East Coast bowl
- UCONN fans are very price sensitive (which seems counterintuitive given that CT is regarded as one of the richest states in the country)
- UCONN fans may not buy tickets through the school in large numbers, meaning that if you have a bowl that doesn't sell out you may end up with a lots of fans buying through resellers thereby lowering your revenue
- UCONN fans are more interested in their own cost than supporting the school (i.e. if the school loses $2M that's fine as long as I save $200 as an example)
- UCONN fans don't love football nearly as much as they love basketball

It would be VERY difficult to dispute ANY of these things. BTW I don't think that means that UCONN fans have it wrong, as it comes to maximizing the event for their own enjoyment / economics. However, if there are rules to a game, and you don't follow them, you don't get to whine about the outcome - if you don't have the power to change the game.

And in a VACUUM, we can say that UCONN did a great job supporting the team. But when UCONN is compared to USC / WISCONSIN / TEXAS / ETC... we look like a bush league fan base. And if you don't think so, you aren't paying attention.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I'm not disputing any of it. I'm just trying to point out that the narrative of UConn fans "don't travel well" is more widespread than a couple of UConn obsessed haters in Oklahoma and moonshiners on Twitter.

Truth is, this reputation applies to more fanbases than our own. It's just magnified and dug out of the closet more often because of our Fiesta Bowl tickets sold through the school. And unfortunately for us, many of those fanbases with a poor travel reputation are already grandfathered into a power conference. We have to do something to try and change that. Rutgers brought down a healthy contingent to the St Pete bowl against UCF a few years ago under Schiano. We have to try to come close to that - whether it's by going or donating. Obviously, the most important people's opinions are that of TV Execs, school Presidents and Conference Commissioners. But if news outlets like the AP are still digging out our Fiesta Bowl some 5 years after that fact, then I think others do too.

 

[Dooley]

The real problem with that AP article is that they didn't include the OU side as well, as a counter example of how one conference absorbed the loss and one didnt. The fact that in a story about that exact topic he didn't bring that up makes me think that maybe he was writting out of his parents basement, AP or not.

There are scores of schools that don't come anywhere near to selling out their full allotment. Fair or not, this fracking story gets unEarthed every time someone from the press corps wants to write about conferences covering costs from unsold tickets OR fans that don't travel. We all know that there were tens of thousands of UConn fans in attendance that night but people around the country don't. But because they didn't buy their tickets in the "old money" way of overpaying for a ticket, UConn is penalized.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

The real problem with that AP article is that they didn't include the OU side as well, as a counter example of how one conference absorbed the loss and one didnt. The fact that in a story about that exact topic he didn't bring that up makes me think that maybe he was writting out of his parents basement, AP or not.

It was an issue for the bowl that hosted the BCS Championship game. If you wanted to buy a ticket to the BCS Championship game in Glendale, you had to buy a ticket to the Fiesta Bowl game. Those were the tickets that flooded the secondary market that were (1) 1/3 price of tickets allotted to UCONN, and (2) Significantly better seats.

If memory serves me correct....the next year New Orleans had the BCS Championship game and the Sugar Bowl. It was the same deal, if you wanted to buy BCS tickets, you had to buy Sugar Bowl tickets, and those tickets flooded the secondary market. Florida (repeat, Florida) did not sellout their seat allotment, but they were able to chalk it up to a crummy ticket policy.

If someone starts in on an anti-UCONN chicken na-na-na-na-na rant that has all the nuance of something you'd recall from 5th grade recess...their mind is made up, no amount of reason matters. I actually had someone from Rice give me s h it in the LAX American Airlines on this very issue not too long ago. That's right, freaking Rice.

 

[J187Money]

So Oklahoma must be a school that doesn't travel well either seeing as they sold a whopping 967 tickets more than we did....

Victoria's Secret models don't need to prove to people that they are hot. People just accept that. When you draw over 80K per game at home you don't need to prove yourself to anyone.

If you were running a bowl in Birmingham or El Paso or wherever, you would honestly look at OK and UCONN as the same? Good thing you don't have that job.

 

[Dooley]

I actually had someone from Rice give me s h it in the LAX American Airlines on this very issue not too long ago. That's right, freaking Rice.

Rice...

 

[uconnell]

If the conference had taken care of the unsold tickets, dollar wise, as other conferences had, it wouldn't be an issue and made the papers. The amount of money UConn had to cough up was the headlines.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

So TV executives, university presidents, and conference commissioners, who draw 6 or 7 figure salaries, are going to be fooled by some hack reporters on twitter while message board posters can figure out what really happened? Sorry, no sale.

In this day and age, it doesn't work from the top, down, i.e. smart management directing solid journalist to reveal the truth. Now that news is considered entertainment and required to make money, the tail is wagging the dog. If, in order to watch/read, the interest of the vox populi requires that a flawed bowl selection system be tied to, in this case, a University, so be it. Even uninformed TV watchers and print media readers create ratings/circulation. Reporters like the Murrow's, Collingwood's, Cronkite's and Friendly's and management like William Paley are gone. Now, it's hold your nose and give them what they want to believe. Then react to popular opinion you've helped create.

The six and seven figure types you mention above can't help but be swayed by popular opinion. Some make a living by feeding it. Other, more political types, by heeding it. In the three or four weeks leading up the Fiesta Bowl, UCONN took a significant, and undeserved, PR hit.

Removing those predisposed to trash UCONN and staunch defenders leaves significant numbers of people who's entire knowledge of UCONN football was derived from agenda driven/slanted two-minute sound bites generated as part of BCS/Fiesta Bowl related coverage. People, regardless of where they sit on the IQ scale, are going to have their perceptions tainted when under constant bombardment by negative non-contextual information. Especially when the subject is not all that important, to them, in the first place. Still, damage done. No thought required.

Our side was virtually silent until Randy voiced a barely covered, by the media, mini-diatribe about it being wrong to trash his team and players because of a dislike for the system. Too little, to late. But the lack a counter-strike is a whole different and angry beast.

 

[Palatine]

I think you are all missing the point:

If, in the eyes of the bowls, the criteria for "traveling well" is that fans buy the tickets through the school - and the fans don't buy the tickets through the school, the school does not "travel well" no matter how many people end up in the stadium. It's great that 5/8/10K people bought tickets on StubHub etc. And it didn't matter to the Fiesta Bowl in that instance per se, because it was sold out regardless given it was tied to the NC game. BUT, if you are the operator of another bowl, and you look at what happened, you can draw the following conclusions:

- UCONN is a tough sell when it is not an East Coast bowl
- UCONN fans are very price sensitive (which seems counterintuitive given that CT is regarded as one of the richest states in the country)
- UCONN fans may not buy tickets through the school in large numbers, meaning that if you have a bowl that doesn't sell out you may end up with a lots of fans buying through resellers thereby lowering your revenue
- UCONN fans are more interested in their own cost than supporting the school (i.e. if the school loses $2M that's fine as long as I save $200 as an example)
- UCONN fans don't love football nearly as much as they love basketball

It would be VERY difficult to dispute ANY of these things. BTW I don't think that means that UCONN fans have it wrong, as it comes to maximizing the event for their own enjoyment / economics. However, if there are rules to a game, and you don't follow them, you don't get to whine about the outcome - if you don't have the power to change the game.

And in a VACUUM, we can say that UCONN did a great job supporting the team. But when UCONN is compared to USC / WISCONSIN / TEXAS / ETC... we look like a bush league fan base. And if you don't think so, you aren't paying attention.

The single most important thing to the bowls is not tickets bought through the schools.

It's heads in beds. If you sold your entire ticket allotment and rented zero hotel rooms, it would be considered a colossal failure. And the bowls are sophisticated enough to know how well a school did in that regard.

 

[J187Money]

The single most important thing to the bowls is not tickets bought through the schools.

It's heads in beds. If you sold your entire ticket allotment and rented zero hotel rooms, it would be considered a colossal failure. And the bowls are sophisticated enough to know how well a school did in that regard.

That makes sense - but do the bowls actually get paid out by the hotels?

 

[Husky25]

The single most important thing to the bowls is not tickets bought through the schools.

It's heads in beds. If you sold your entire ticket allotment and rented zero hotel rooms, it would be considered a colossal failure. And the bowls are sophisticated enough to know how well a school did in that regard.

Perception is set by the media, not how sophisticated some obscure metric measured by bowl officials may or may not be. You made that clear in your original post.

The media jumped all over the fact that only 2,800 tickets were sold in the overpriced packages through the school for a game 3,500 miles away over a holiday weekend during the slowest recovery from the worst economic downtown since 1934. The media did not cover the fact that Oklahoma sold an immaterially greater amount of tickets or that the Big XII covered their allotment.

Perception becomes reality. The truth doesn't matter so much in the court of public opinion.

 

[J187Money]

Can't blame holiday weekend. Pretty much all bowls are on holiday weekends.

Can't complain when it is Christmas weekend, complain when it is New Year's weekend, complain when it is the week before Christmas (because it is a crappy bowl)...

 

[Husky25]

I'm not complaining. That wasn't the point of the post.

 

[J187Money]

I'm not complaining. That wasn't the point of the post.

That wasn't really directed at you. But that gets said a lot here.

I also don't really worry a lot about any of this. It is an actual problem when we actually have a good enough team to go to a good bowl and get passed over for it. Worrying about this when we are 6-6 or for the last 4 years when we weren't bowl eligible anyway is a nice thing to do to pass the time, but we actually don't know what XYZ bowl director is going to do next year or the year after. And BTW - if we win the league and get the NY6 bowl like Houston did this year - we can (hopefully) prove this to be a false narrative.

 

[HartfordHank]

That makes sense - but do the bowls actually get paid out by the hotels?

From my business experience I know that Conventions regularly get kickbacks, rather commissions, on hotel rooms. Of course when a hotel can generate triple their normal rate they are happy to pay a commission to the convention. I am confident the same thing is happening with bowl games. Harder to do in some cities, New York or Orlando, easier to do in others, New Orleans.

 

[J187Money]

From my business experience I know that Conventions regularly get kickbacks, rather commissions, on hotel rooms. Of course when a hotel can generate triple their normal rate they are happy to pay a commission to the convention. I am confident the same thing is happening with bowl games. Harder to do in some cities, New York or Orlando, easier to do in others, New Orleans.

But in Tampa for example - doesn't seem to be a hot spot like Miami. So sure they fill some rooms, but at $1-200/night not much money to kick back.

 

[HartfordHank]

But in Tampa for example - doesn't seem to be a hot spot like Miami. So sure they fill some rooms, but at $1-200/night not much money to kick back.

The bigger the event/bowl the bigger the kickbacks. Most of the money being paid is based upon how much a hotel can increase their rates during the event/bowl. If minimal increase minimal payback. I am sure a few hotels sign up to be "Host Hotels" and I am sure you pay a premium to stay there. Avoid them and you can save some money.

 

[IMind]

From my business experience I know that Conventions regularly get kickbacks, rather commissions, on hotel rooms. Of course when a hotel can generate triple their normal rate they are happy to pay a commission to the convention. I am confident the same thing is happening with bowl games. Harder to do in some cities, New York or Orlando, easier to do in others, New Orleans.

Hell hockey rinks do for tournaments played by 10 year olds. Teams are generally required to stay at hotels listed by the rinks if they require a night stay. I'm pretty sure if hotels around hockey rinks have figured this out, then hotels around bowl games have managed to put two and two together as well.

 

[junglehusky]

In the MBB matchup vs Maryland at the Garden, the narrative from Reece Davis before the game was that UConn fans show up in droves in NYC. So there's that.

Honestly even if there is a biased and factually innacurate narrative out there about the Fiesta, I think it's mostly moot when it comes to 2nd tier and mid-tier bowls. Our reputation from games like the Motor City, International and Pizza bowl games among bowl chairmen is likely competitive with our peers like Pitt, Cuse, etc. Which is fine. We can worry about our travelling reputation versus the Wisconsins and Florida States of the world hopefully in a few years.

 

[businesslawyer]

In the MBB matchup vs Maryland at the Garden, the narrative from Reece Davis before the game was that UConn fans show up in droves in NYC. So there's that.

Honestly even if there is a biased and factually innacurate narrative out there about the Fiesta, I think it's mostly moot when it comes to 2nd tier and mid-tier bowls. Our reputation from games like the Motor City, International and Pizza bowl games among bowl chairmen is likely competitive with our peers like Pitt, Cuse, etc. Which is fine. We can worry about our travelling reputation versus the Wisconsins and Florida States of the world hopefully in a few years.

I hope to God some ESPN head was on the 12:07 back to New Haven, because if he was it would have looked lke the entire State was crammed into that train.

Our reputation from Charlotte and Detroit especially was not like our Pitt and Syracuse and BC peers -- it was far above it. Given expectations for those games, we did great. And we did fine getting people into the stadium at Glendale. There was an anomaly with ticket pricing that caused the school to take a hit that the media focused on. . The Big Ten and the ACC care about fanbase -- whether UConn took a hit one time due to a pricing anomaly is just not a concern.

 

[Palatine]

Perception is set by the media, not how sophisticated some obscure metric measured by bowl officials may or may not be. You made that clear in your original post.

The media jumped all over the fact that only 2,800 tickets were sold in the overpriced packages through the school for a game 3,500 miles away over a holiday weekend during the slowest recovery from the worst economic downtown since 1934. The media did not cover the fact that Oklahoma sold an immaterially greater amount of tickets or that the Big XII covered their allotment.

Perception becomes reality. The truth doesn't matter so much in the court of public opinion.

Heads in beds is not some obscure metric. It is the most important metric in travel and tourism.

 

[Husky25]

Heads in beds is not some obscure metric. It is the most important metric in travel and tourism.

That is a completely different discussion all together.

The reality for the general public is influenced by the perception set by the media, who jumped all over UConn returning 14,500+ tickets. There were no stories, nor one talking head mentioning the multitude of sold out Holiday Inn Expresses occupied by mostly National Flag Blue & White.

Whether Fiesta Bowl officials cared about hotel occupancy or not (highly debatable whether it's the "single most important thing" to them in particular.), the negative stories about UConn returning 84% of their allotment shape the opinion of fans outside of Southern New England, casual and non-fans in the region, and (most importantly) future potential bowl officials. I.e. the not-so-insignificant portion of the public who probably did not tune in that Saturday Evening.

At the end of the day, the actual number of UConn fans at the game is inconsequential. The narrative was already set and while Junker had bigger fish to fry at the time, neither he or any of his minions came even remotely close to attempting to un-ring that bell.

 

[cabbie191]

I was a Wisconsin resident for decades - was there when Alvarez was hired in 1990 and turned the football program around and the Badgers went to the Rose Bowl in 1994 - first time in over 30 years. Funny thing - even though Wisconsin fans have a well-earned reputation for traveling well, the school took a financial bath on the bowl game. Lost close to a million dollars if I recall the dollar amount correct.y.