Let Common Sense Prevail

[FrostyNuggets]

Common sense would be treating it like finding pine tar on a bat.

This comment destroys your argument

 

[Nostical]

Common sense means it's all about the science. If the balls are inflated in a hot room and are then taken outdoors to 50 degrees they will "deflate". No needles, no tampering. And there is NO rule preventing you from inflating the balls in a hot room. They will read 12.5 and pass the inspection. It is an ingenious way--within the rules---of making the balls conform to your liking. It's what the Patriots do. They think outside the box. It's equivilent to the Seattle owner telling his architect to design the new stadium for the specific purpose of trapping as much fan noise as possible--so that visiting teams will find it almost impossible to hear, thus giving the Seahawks an unfair advantage. Having vocal fans and encouraging them to get louder is fine, but designing your stadium purposely and precisely to confuse and distract the opponent? And to be so proud of it that a 12th man flag is raised? Where is the NFL rule on a more uniform decibel range? You see, creative and innovative NFL owners and coaches push the envelope and win championships. The ones who don't become irate and jealous and whine to the media. What we never hear is what happens next. The losing owners gather their staffs in private and proclaim, "I'm paying you lots of money, why didn't we think of that!"

 

[RedSoloCup]

Common sense means it's all about the science. If the balls are inflated in a hot room and are then taken outdoors to 50 degrees they will "deflate". No needles, no tampering. And there is NO rule preventing you from inflating the balls in a hot room. They will read 12.5 and pass the inspection. It is an ingenious way--within the rules---of making the balls conform to your liking. It's what the Patriots do. They think outside the box. It's equivilent to the Seattle owner telling his architect to design the new stadium for the specific purpose of trapping as much fan noise as possible--so that visiting teams will find it almost impossible to hear, thus giving the Seahawks an unfair advantage. Having vocal fans and encouraging them to get louder is fine, but designing your stadium purposely and precisely to confuse and distract the opponent? And to be so proud of it that a 12th man flag is raised? Where is the NFL rule on a more uniform decibel range? You see, creative and innovative NFL owners and coaches push the envelope and win championships. The ones who don't become irate and jealous and whine to the media. What we never hear is what happens next. The losing owners gather their staffs in private and proclaim, "I'm paying you lots of money, why didn't we think of that!"

And so right now, inFoxboro, some equipment guy is in the doghouse because the 12th ball didn't soften up properly... LOL

 

[Palatine]

And so right now, inFoxboro, some equipment guy is in the doghouse because the 12th ball didn't soften up properly... LOL

The 12th ball was for the kicker. It had yo hard.

 

[Palatine]

This comment destroys your argument

Putting pine tar on a bat to gain advantage in a way the league has described as illegal is tampering with equipment.

Deflating balls to gain advantage in a way the league has defined as illegal is also tampering with equipment.

How does that destroy my argument that the penalties should be similar and the player should be tossed?

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Putting pine tar on a bat to gain advantage in a way the league has described as illegal is tampering with equipment.

Deflating balls to gain advantage in a way the league has defined as illegal is also tampering with equipment.

How does that destroy my argument that the penalties should be similar and the player should be tossed?

1. The homerun was reinstated, the game was completed at later date.
2. The Yankees lost, Royals won.
3. George Brett was not suspended. (he was thrown out of the game for arguing the ruling)
4. Dick Howser (Royals Manager) was not suspended.

American League President Lee McPhail's ruling essentially said a team cannot lie in wait for an adverse outcome and then try to use something like pine tar negate a completed play. A team can ask that the bat be measured and removed from play at anytime, but it cannot be used as the basis to negate a completed play.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Maybe you can hire this guy.

 

[StoweD210]

The 12th ball was for the kicker. It had yo hard.

The balls used in the kicking game are kept separate from "regular" game balls.

 

[Palatine]

1. The homerun was reinstated, the game was completed at later date.
2. The Yankees lost, Royals won.
3. George Brett was not suspended. (he was thrown out of the game for arguing the ruling)
4. Dick Howser (Royals Manager) was not suspended.

American League President Lee McPhail's ruling essentially said a team cannot lie in wait for an adverse outcome and then try to use something like pine tar negate a completed play. A team can ask that the bat be measured and removed from play at anytime, but it cannot be used as the basis to negate a completed play.

Then use the spit ball analogy. I postured both pine tar and spit balls, you ignored my spitball pitcher analogy.

If a pitcher gets caught throwing a spit ball, he is tampering with the ball, an even more exact analogy, that player is tampering with equipment in an illegal way and he gets tossed.

 

[CL82]

My car's INFLATE YOUR DAMNED TIRES light goes on every January.

Do you see a Pat's ball boy running away from them, because apparently that's the most logical reason why they would lose air pressure in the cold.

 

[Bonehead]

So it seems there might be an employee, equipment assistant, moving balls to a special room and possibly deflating them on his own?

Can't wait to hear the reason he was doing this - he was a disgruntled employee???

 

[pj]

So you're saying it's more likely that the NFL officials responsible for watching the balls to keep them from being tampered with are the ones who tampered with the balls. And only with the Patriots' footballs.

You may want to google "motive".

Aaron Rodgers prefers high pressure. The refs couldn't know that Brady and the Patriots preferred underpressure unless they were in cahoots with the Patriots. Also the balls were in the Patriots custody so the refs still would have had to be in cahoots with the Patriots. So if the refs are guilty, the Patriots are guilty too.

 

[Husky25]

Aaron Rodgers prefers high pressure. The refs couldn't know that Brady and the Patriots preferred underpressure unless they were in cahoots with the Patriots. Also the balls were in the Patriots custody so the refs still would have had to be in cahoots with the Patriots. So if the refs are guilty, the Patriots are guilty too.

That's quite the leap...and completely illogical.

 

[formerlurker]

Make them play the NY GIANTS in the Super Bowl.

 

[J187Money]

It pains me. But right now I need the Seahawks to lose more than I need the Pats to lose.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

The NFL has video of a guy walking into a bathroom to take a dump. This is all a bunch of crap.

 

[StoweD210]

The NFL has video of a guy walking into a bathroom to take a dump. This is all a bunch of crap.

I see what you did there...

 

[CL82]

Aaron Rodgers prefers high pressure. The refs couldn't know that Brady and the Patriots preferred underpressure unless they were in cahoots with the Patriots. Also the balls were in the Patriots custody so the refs still would have had to be in cahoots with the Patriots. So if the refs are guilty, the Patriots are guilty too.

 

[CL82]

I see what you did there...

A ninety second dump? Man he really hit that window just about perfect.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Still going on about this? From jumpstreet the only people who didn't think the Pats did anything intentionally had an IQ below 20. The science presented by Belichick has been debunked. Belichick went from knowing nothing about the handling of the balls before the game to giving a detailed soliliquy about the process 2 days later. It's comical. They, specifically Brady, did this. How anyone could question it is beyond comprehension.

 

[Husky25]

Still going on about this? From jumpstreet the only people who didn't think the Pats did anything intentionally had an IQ below 20. The science presented by Belichick has been debunked. Belichick went from knowing nothing about the handling of the balls before the game to giving a detailed soliliquy about the process 2 days later. It's comical. They, specifically Brady, did this. How anyone could question it is beyond comprehension.

The funny thing is those who have already convicted the Patriots have done so based on innuendo and unsubstantiated reports from unnamed NFL sources. In other words, circumstantial at best.

It doesn't matter anyway. The Patriots will forever be guilty to those who have already convicted them, regardless of what the NFL concludes.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The funny thing is those who have already convicted the Patriots have done so based on innuendo and unsubstantiated reports from unnamed NFL sources. In other words, circumstantial at best.

It doesn't matter anyway. The Patriots will forever be guilty to those who have already convicted them, regardless of what the NFL concludes.

This isn't a court of law. Someone deflated the footballs. The science behind the theory that weather played a role is laughable to everyone in the real world. Forget innuendo and unsubstantiated reports. Use some friggin common sense.

Who benefited?

Was there motive?

Has Brady stated in the past that he prefers deflated balls? (insert joke here)

Do the Pats have a history of bending the rules? Have they been fined for anything in the past? Is there a pattern?

Yeah let's use some friggin common sense.

 

[Husky25]

This isn't a court of law.

Which is just the way you like it. but there are a dozen other theories just as simple and plausible as the "Brady Cheated" meme saying he did not. The burden of proof is much lower in the court of public opinion.

I'm not saying that Brady and the Patriots are innocent, but I don't think they are guilty of cheating. I think at least one other party is more culpable than the NFL is letting on.

The Peter King/Chris Mortenson/Jay Glazer reports read like their source is Simone from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. No one is taking responsibility for the reports and there are enough buffers and hearsay to reduce everyone's culpability to zero regardless of their potential responsibility.

 

[pj]

We don't know by how much the balls were underinflated. But the NFL knows.

A small underinflation could have been the result of taking the balls from room temperature to cold air. A large underinflation would have to be tampering.

Why don't we let the investigation play out before jumping to conclusions.

 

[pj]

Just objecting to the idiot who blamed the referees. Either the Patriots were guilty or no one was guilty. The refs were blameless.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Serrano is using Fruit Loop's logic. Assume its what Fatso is saying too, but haven't heard him this week.

Here is all we need to know.....What was the PSI reading of the Patriots and Colts footballs pregame? What was the PSI reading for the same balls at half time?

I will have no problem hammering the Pats if that reveals anything. Until then, this is all crap.

 

[Husky25]

Just objecting to the idiot who blamed the referees. Either the Patriots were guilty or no one was guilty. The refs were blameless.

So the refs are infallible because they say they are? That makes a ton of sense.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Serrano is using Fruit Loop's logic. Assume its what Fatso is saying too, but haven't heard him this week.

Here is all we need to know.....What was the PSI reading of the Patriots and Colts footballs pregame? What was the PSI reading for the same balls at half time?

I will have no problem hammering the Pats if that reveals anything. Until then, this is all crap.

Yes the NFL is investigating the Patriots because the PSI on their footballs were exactly the same pregame, halftime, and postgame. Makes sense.

 

[Carl Spackler]

From what I've gathered on this, which isn't much, both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season, were vocal and instrumental in creating rules changes regarding handling of game balls, such that the way that footballs are handled now exists. My initial thought, and I wrote it somewhere, was the rule as it exists today - was some archaic rule that dates back to when football teams actually had tight budgets and the numbers of balls provided by each team was something that was actually considered - much like tight budget youth sports. that was incorrect - the rule exists today, because of lobbying led primarily by Tom Brady and Peyton Manning after the 2006 season. NFL QB's do indeed like to have control over the condition of the balls they handle, and for the past 7 years, they've had more control and influence to do that, than ever.

My other position on this, I still hold firmly that I wrote about before. The Patriots, comparably across the NFL, have enjoyed very low rates of fumbling since 2006. There is no doubt that ball that is inflated at 10.5 lbs pressure or less, is easier to squeeze and hold onto, than a ball that is regulation pressure. What seems to have begun by the whims of the QB in handling the ball, seems to have had greater effect, and whether or not the effect on fumbling became a purpose for the intention of deflating game balls or not?

Debateable, it could have been entirely unintended and unknown consequence - of cheating the rules by the QB for his own purposes. But I find it very hard to believe that nobody internally for the Patriots put the two things together - a deflated ball and decreased fumbling.

 

[CL82]

This isn't a court of law. Someone deflated the footballs. The science behind the theory that weather played a role is laughable to everyone in the real world. Forget innuendo and unsubstantiated reports. Use some friggin common sense.

Who benefited?

Was there motive?

Has Brady stated in the past that he prefers deflated balls? (insert joke here)

Do the Pats have a history of bending the rules? Have they been fined for anything in the past? Is there a pattern?

Yeah let's use some friggin common sense.

You could not be more right! Let's throw out the legal system and reject science and instead just decide "the truth" base on our own prejudices. I mean what could possibly go wrong with that?