Leave it to Baylor

[southie]

I didn't get to watch the UConn game today, so I have no idea the "strategy" used to just finish the game without pouring it on even more.

Up by like 70 points to begin the 4th quarter, Baylor continued shooting (and making) 3 point shots, and it's not like they were milking the shot clock. I was only half paying attention, but saw them knock down at least five of them. That is my gripe. They were launching shots early and often in that final quarter and determined to stretch out that 70 point lead to 90 points.

In football, when a team is up by like 40 points, they typically just run the ball and play a conservative offense to allow the clock and game to just run out. Most teams aren't throwing long passes towards the end of the game trying to increase their 40 point lead to 60 points. Even as most offense get close to the end zone with less than a minute or two in the game, some will take a knee so as not to inflate the scoring margin.

 

[mhshuskies]

With all these ridiculous blowouts in the first round it may be time to think about cutting back on the number (56, 48 ?) of teams in the tourney. Maybe there should be play-out games? All the lowest seed 16 teams play to get 4 spots in the tourney.

 

[hoophuskee]

I didn't get to watch the UConn game today, so I have no idea the "strategy" used to just finish the game without pouring it on even more.

Up by like 70 points to begin the 4th quarter, Baylor continued shooting (and making) 3 point shots, and it's not like they were milking the shot clock. I was only half paying attention, but saw them knock down at least five of them. That is my gripe. They were launching shots early and often in that final quarter and determined to stretch out that 70 point lead to 90 points.

In football, when a team is up by like 40 points, they typically just run the ball and play a conservative offense to allow the clock and game to just run out. Most teams aren't throwing long passes towards the end of the game trying to increase their 40 point lead to 60 points. Even as most offense get close to the end zone with less than a minute or two in the game, some will take a knee so as not to inflate the scoring margin.

I don't know enough about Baylor but I don't think you're right. Unless Baylor was pressing late? UCONN can't run a lot with their 2nd five this year. Next year UCONN can. But if I were to see players at the end of the bench who don't normally get a lot of minutes have a chance to do some running and taking 3's for UCONN next year, I wouldn't mind one bit. Why can't they have an opportunity to have some fun and play at a fast pace? I'm not suggesting pressing.

For example Kyla Irwin is stroking the ball well. Many of us criticize Molly Bent for not taking shots. Maybe one of our recruits next year AEH who appears to be a terrific shooter maybe she is at the backend of the bench--- so these players can't go out and play their game for most of the 4th quarter and take quick 3's?

And I don't agree with your football analogy. Most real good teams in college have capabilities to both pass and run. My counter to yours is do you tell your 2nd string QB's, rb's and wr's to deliberately not put forth a complete effort to score when they are running the ball or catch a short pass etc? Do you tell your cornerbacks that they can't intercept a pass and try to run for a td?

Next year UCONN is going to be a beast with a deep bench. We'll have some 70+ point wins imo. Are you going to come after UCONN then?

 

[hoophuskee]

With all these ridiculous blowouts in the first round it may be time to think about cutting back on the number (56, 48 ?) of teams in the tourney. Maybe there should be play-out games? All the lowest seed 16 teams play to get 4 spots in the tourney.

I hope not. Stanford had trouble today. Then more of the smaller teams don't get bids. The teams that got invited from small schools are mostly thrilled. IMO Let it Be. It shouldn't all be about "the score" and we did see this year in fact a 2seed have trouble.

 

[Sonny44]

It's all about guess what; money. The first two games are joke. No way does half those teams belong there. The tournament should be comprised of 16 teams at the most.

 

[huskeynut]

Let it go. Mulley is going to do what she wants.

Some of these 16 seeds are very weak. Albany was not a weak sister.

The committee set the regions. Stop complaining. We have been down that road before. Let's just play ball!

 

[Icebear]

In the end it just draws more attention to Baylor and that means everyone who searches on the net for Baylor sees the hypocritical moral mess that that university is. So in the long long it just hurts themselves more.

 

[TitleTown]

Hampton the 15 seed Duke is playing is always a lot worse than ours lol.

It is quite obvious that geographic location was the main factor in determining the placement of teams. The NCAA felt the need to pinch pennies and keep teams within a bus ride distance, instead of adhering to the S curve. In doing this they also benefit financially from the added ticket sales from local fans.

 

[oldude]

I didn't get to watch the UConn game today, so I have no idea the "strategy" used to just finish the game without pouring it on even more.

Up by like 70 points to begin the 4th quarter, Baylor continued shooting (and making) 3 point shots, and it's not like they were milking the shot clock. I was only half paying attention, but saw them knock down at least five of them. That is my gripe. They were launching shots early and often in that final quarter and determined to stretch out that 70 point lead to 90 points.

In football, when a team is up by like 40 points, they typically just run the ball and play a conservative offense to allow the clock and game to just run out. Most teams aren't throwing long passes towards the end of the game trying to increase their 40 point lead to 60 points. Even as most offense get close to the end zone with less than a minute or two in the game, some will take a knee so as not to inflate the scoring margin.

For what it's worth, UConn scored 33 pts in the 4th qtr, most of which came from beyond the arc. Basketball is different than football. I don't think you stop running your offense when you're up. Maybe you stop pressing on defense, and UConn stopped pressing in the 1st half.

There are lots of things to get on Baylor about, but running up the score is not one of them. As for UConn's draw in the tournament, it's time to get over it. I could be wrong, but I don't see a single team in UConn's bracket that will push the Huskies in a close game, including MD.

 

[connboy77]

Baylor is the only team in the tournament that I think has a reasonable chance of beating UCONN. It is unfortunate that they are on the same side of the bracket as UCONN.

 

[oldude]

Baylor is the only team in the tournament that I think has a reasonable chance of beating UCONN. It is unfortunate that they are on the same side of the bracket as UCONN.

I would add ND as the other team besides Baylor capable of beating the Huskies. Still, I like UConn's chances for #12.

 

[eebmg]

Baylor is the only team in the tournament that I think has a reasonable chance of beating UCONN. It is unfortunate that they are on the same side of the bracket as UCONN.

I still think ND is a team that can give us trouble.

 

[JFC613]

I didn't see the game, but the box score tells us a lot. Mulkey played her entire bench; everyone. Twelve players played. The lowest two off the bench played 12 minutes a piece. Of the starters, only two played over 20 minutes; 21 & 22. Texas S. shot 13.8% and had 21 TOs. Baylor had 11 blocks, 60 rebounds and shot 63% with 50% threes. Looks like the bench could have played the game and hit 90 points. Texas S. didn't belong on the same floor with Baylor. I think she took adavantage of the opportunity to get solid minutes for her role players and the score was what it was?

 

[UcMiami]

My point is why go out and schedule the toughest out of confrence schedule if the committee isn't going to reward!! No one seems to answer my single question. The committee did a hack job on the huskies ... No way South Carolina gets a easier path to the final four!!! The committee has no clue on what they are doing its all about location ... So maybe next year geno schedules all cupcakes And still end up
Getting screwed next year!!! When a team wins as much as UCONN deep down inside people want to see someone else win!!!

Because the committee this year decided that travel distance was a more important consideration than getting the seeding order correct, next year they will decide the most important consideration is ______________. And the year after, they will decide something else completely. This year, if they could place a team within 300 miles in a first round location, or in a regional location, then they would figure out a way to do so regardless of proper seeding.

As far as Syracuse - they chose RPI as justification to give them an 8 seed and keep them within 'driving distance', like they did with Maryland to give them a three seed. Of course RPI didn't help Temple, Elon, or Drake who all had better RPI than Syracuse. The committee has about six criteria they are looking at when evaluating schools, and they seemingly do a mix and match process to justify sending schools where they want to send them and giving them the seeding that makes that decision work. It is what it is and the same kinds of issues exist every year. And no, beyond getting you into the tournament, the regular season does not seem to make much difference when you look at position within say 10 seed spots once you get outside the top 16.

What I said in another thread is the committee claims to have watched 1200+ WCBB games this year in aggregate and yet you cannot look at a single decision they have made that suggests that the 'eye test' was involved with a single one of those decisions. In fact the opposite - they seem to have closed their eyes to actual play and looked only at numbers on a piece of paper. So one wonders why they all waste so many hours watching games and taking supposedly copious notes.

 

[CocoHusky]

I didn't get to watch the UConn game today, so I have no idea the "strategy" used to just finish the game without pouring it on even more.

Up by like 70 points to begin the 4th quarter, Baylor continued shooting (and making) 3 point shots, and it's not like they were milking the shot clock. I was only half paying attention, but saw them knock down at least five of them. That is my gripe. They were launching shots early and often in that final quarter and determined to stretch out that 70 point lead to 90 points.

In football, when a team is up by like 40 points, they typically just run the ball and play a conservative offense to allow the clock and game to just run out. Most teams aren't throwing long passes towards the end of the game trying to increase their 40 point lead to 60 points. Even as most offense get close to the end zone with less than a minute or two in the game, some will take a knee so as not to inflate the scoring margin.

In the last five minutes of the UCONN vs Albany game Crystal made Three 3PT FG and Kyla made another. I double check to make sure Albany had 5 defenders on the floor and sure enough they did. I hope Crystal's shooting carries over to the next game.

 

[UcMiami]

On the OP - no problem with Baylor's score. They are a long team that is just the kind of team that 16 seeds can find impossible to score against or defend as the shooting percentage for all the Baylor bigs points to. Baylor used the entire bench for extended minutes and at some point you just can't stop scoring (it is why some HS leagues implement mercy rules.)

What I will say is that there are a number of coaches who do not coach the way Geno does in blow out situations. When Uconn is in one of those ridiculous games, most of the time the team specifically shuts down all transition offense and all pressure defense - they work on zone on defense and half court offense using 20+ seconds off the shot clock, as if it were an extension of a practice session. A lot of other teams and coaches just continue running their normal game offense with their bench players in - if they get a transition chance they take it. And final score to some extent depends on the other team's choice of offense - if they choose to run and take quick shots, then you get a lot more offensive possessions even if you are trying to take 20 seconds on each one.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Set a NCAA's tourney record with largest win a 89 point blow out!! 119-30. I really can't stand Baylor and I really can't stand Mulky!! I hope they get knocked out before Dallas!!! Why anyone would want to play for her or that university especially after all the scandals and investigations going on. She has no class .. Really 89 point win... Don't call the dogs off? She's all about making records and when something goes wrong she's the first to cry and blame someone!! They by far are my most hated program... If UCONN doesn't win it all I hope anyone but Baylor cuts down the nets!!!

Does the embarrassment for the losing team get better if you only beat them by 45 or 50 points?? What is the cut off point--60, 70, 80??
I truly hate drubbing opponents into the ground---but Uconn can't stand tall in this--they are not alone however. My formative BB coach Father Taylor--told us it is enough to win the game --you should not embarrass an opponent. Obviously this wasn't big time BB.
A team should not need to be up by more than 30 to put in the second line of players--they need PT and in game learning time--whether you are in the 4 quarter or not.

 

[BroadwayVa]

On the OP - no problem with Baylor's score. They are a long team that is just the kind of team that 16 seeds can find impossible to score against or defend as the shooting percentage for all the Baylor bigs points to. Baylor used the entire bench for extended minutes and at some point you just can't stop scoring (it is why some HS leagues implement mercy rules.)

What I will say is that there are a number of coaches who do not coach the way Geno does in blow out situations. When Uconn is in one of those ridiculous games, most of the time the team specifically shuts down all transition offense and all pressure defense - they work on zone on defense and half court offense using 20+ seconds off the shot clock, as if it were an extension of a practice session. A lot of other teams and coaches just continue running their normal game offense with their bench players in - if they get a transition chance they take it. And final score to some extent depends on the other team's choice of offense - if they choose to run and take quick shots, then you get a lot more offensive possessions even if you are trying to take 20 seconds on each one.

1
I agree if you use your whole bench long before you reach 40 points --the coaching staff has done all it can to keep the score reasonable.
Then that really asks the question should that badly beaten team been in the tournament.
These--blowouts---are an exceptional chance to give the end of the bench load of "in-game" experience--I still am not a fan of them. Albeit--I like comfortable leads--

 

[UConnNick]

You have a shot clock in any BB game. You have to take a shot within the prescribed time or the ball goes over to the other team. Therefore, you only have three ways to keep from running up the score. You either don't take any shots and just play defense, you deliberately miss shots, or you slow the pace of the game and only take shots late on the shot clock.

The first two choices are not viable alternatives, particularly when you've inserted your second teamers. They deserve the chance to play the game normally. They don't get to play much so they want to do all the things that constitute playing BB. You also need to give them the experience of playing the game normally.

The best example I remember about it was a season many years ago when Teresa Grentz was coaching at Illinois. They had played Tennessee earlier that season and then played us. Both games were blowout losses, but after our game, when asked about the two lopsided losses, she said "Geno is a gentleman." It was a not-too-subtle dig at Pat Summit because she used a full court press right up until the last minute of their game against Illinois while ahead by over 50 points. Grentz didn't appreciate it. I recall Pat once defending her practice of doing that by saying she never stops working on things she thinks her team needs practice with, no matter what the score of the game is.

 

[UcMiami]

There is another consideration specific to the first round game that gets lost in scores and looking at minutes - it comes after a long layoff from games, one that is unique for most teams from November to March. Coaches are always concerned with how their team responds, and a lot of them even in blow outs are more concerned with the timing and flow of their starters and primary bench than their are with anything else. And they are going to play those players until they think the rust has been knocked off and they are ready for the next game regardless of score.

 

[hoophuskee]

1
I agree if you use your whole bench long before you reach 40 points --the coaching staff has done all it can to keep the score reasonable.
Then that really asks the question should that badly beaten team been in the tournament.
These--blowouts---are an exceptional chance to give the end of the bench load of "in-game" experience--I still am not a fan of them. Albeit--I like comfortable leads--

I don't agree. Each game is different, each team is different, each circumstance is different. I can't let my fandom cloud what a coach feels needs to be done-- give the coach's his players what he or she feels needs or deserves court time to get it. My fandom is not more important than what a coach feels needs to be done. A point measurement shouldn't be the sole barometer.

If UCONN takes a 30-40 point lead in the 1st half, the top tier starters don't get to play in the 2nd half just because the 2nd and third teams can hold the 30 point lead?

Next year as a guess UCONN will be trying to push into the rotation Stevens, Camara and Walker. How many games will opposing teams be close to UCONN? So are you suggesting that you'll want for example Molly Bent to have near the same minutes (after the 1st half blowout) as some of the top 6-8 players?

IMO next year's one weakness is the integration of the main top players while trying to also have player's such as Gabby and/or Collier expand their games (frankly I would keep Gabby right where she is -- just hopeful she becomes even more effective shooting from the outside. Though if she hits from the outside . . . ) while they learn to play with Stevens -- and the other impact new players. Not only that but they need minutes with variations of starters and non-starter combinations. UCONN will be pressing in the 1st half a lot thus wipe out teams early. Limiting their time by playing the last couple of players on the bench imo would be a huge mistake.

Next year for example, Notre Dames is getting Stanford's prior pg (a 5th year senior and a very good player) along with everyone coming back other than their pg, Allen. Also, they lose Nelson and Thompson who aren't getting significant minutes. Many of their top players would have already played 2 and in some cases 3 years together. With the many tough games in their conference their top tier players will be fully integrated by the end of the year. UCONN needs to integrate their top players too beyond who is coming back. To limit them and the integration of the team because they are too good would be a huge mistake imo.

Not only that - this year looks like we'll have 3 All-Americans in some form. Right now the elite UCONN players that start ---depending on their health get 25-30 minutes a night. The elite recruits that come to UCONN probably expect that's what they'll eventually see good minutes (that they earned) as they get older. We know players love to play. I think of the story last year that a player knew she was coming out and deliberately missed a ft so she could stay in even a little extra time. If UCONN starts dropping below the 25 minute barrier for the elite players that are healthy, then gradually UCONN will start to lose out on getting the elite recruits. And next year if the starters get at least 25 minutes along with the next few players off the bench get 2nd tier type of minutes- leads will be a lot of times in that over 40 point range early. Plus we are going to press (i.e put games away early so we don't have any "Tulane" relapse.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I don't agree. Each game is different, each team is different, each circumstance is different. I can't let my fandom cloud what a coach feels needs to be done-- give the coach's his players what he or she feels needs or deserves court time to get it. My fandom is not more important than what a coach feels needs to be done. A point measurement shouldn't be the sole barometer.

If UCONN takes a 30-40 point lead in the 1st half, the top tier starters don't get to play in the 2nd half just because the 2nd and third teams can hold the 30 point lead?

Next year as a guess UCONN will be trying to push into the rotation Stevens, Camara and Walker. How many games will opposing teams be close to UCONN? So are you suggesting that you'll want for example Molly Bent to have near the same minutes (after the 1st half blowout) as some of the top 6-8 players?

IMO next year's one weakness is the integration of the main top players while trying to also have player's such as Gabby and/or Collier expand their games (frankly I would keep Gabby right where she is -- just hopeful she becomes even more effective shooting from the outside. Though if she hits from the outside . . . ) while they learn to play with Stevens -- and the other impact new players. Not only that but they need minutes with variations of starters and non-starter combinations. UCONN will be pressing in the 1st half a lot thus wipe out teams early. Limiting their time by playing the last couple of players on the bench imo would be a huge mistake.

Next year for example, Notre Dames is getting Stanford's prior pg (a 5th year senior and a very good player) along with everyone coming back other than their pg, Allen. Also, they lose Nelson and Thompson who aren't getting significant minutes. Many of their top players would have already played 2 and in some cases 3 years together. With the many tough games in their conference their top tier players will be fully integrated by the end of the year. UCONN needs to integrate their top players too beyond who is coming back. To limit them and the integration of the team because they are too good would be a huge mistake imo.

Not only that - this year looks like we'll have 3 All-Americans in some form. Right now the elite UCONN players that start ---depending on their health get 25-30 minutes a night. The elite recruits that come to UCONN probably expect that's what they'll eventually see good minutes (that they earned) as they get older. We know players love to play. I think of the story last year that a player knew she was coming out and deliberately missed a ft so she could stay in even a little extra time. If UCONN starts dropping below the 25 minute barrier for the elite players that are healthy, then gradually UCONN will start to lose out on getting the elite recruits. And next year if the starters get at least 25 minutes along with the next few players off the bench get 2nd tier type of minutes- leads will be a lot of times in that over 40 point range early. Plus we are going to press (i.e put games away early so we don't have any "Tulane" relapse.[/QUOTE

Seems your computer got stuck in gear. Your--I disagree says it all.
Obviously, I disagree with your disagree. Next time find the O. F. F. button earlier.

 

[tonehill68]

But.... but... but.... Hampton beat the #2 team in the AAC (Temple) earlier in the season.

True indeed and definitely congratulations to Hampton for that huge win but I was talking "tournament time" ball.

 

[UcMiami]

But.... but... but.... Hampton beat the #2 team in the AAC (Temple) earlier in the season.

And let me see, Vanderbilt beat the #2 team in the ACC, so why aren't they dancing ... oh yeah they were the 13th ranked team in the SEC - that SEC conference must be killer! Now who was that #2 team in the ACC, hmmm .....

 

[hoophuskee]

Every time you make a post about 40 point and the starters shouldn't be in etc- expect a reply in kind because I think you're wrong. And I'll post however long for not only you but maybe one other person who might be on the fence whether they think you're right or I am. All in fun here. I hope you feel the same. It won't be the last time there are disagreements.

 

[ASweet3781]

In Baylor's defense, I've noticed in recent years that the mid major teams from their neck of the woods that get the automatic bid, are usually the worst teams in the tournament. Northeastern mid majors seem to be better.

 

[triaddukefan]

True indeed and definitely congratulations to Hampton for that huge win but I was talking "tournament time" ball.

Well in defense to Hampton.... they lost 4 players to season ending injuries... including the conference player of the year and a few other key members. Im sure they were alot better when they beat Temple than they were last night.

And let me see, Vanderbilt beat the #2 team in the ACC, so why aren't they dancing ... oh yeah they were the 13th ranked team in the SEC - that SEC conference must be killer! Now who was that #2 team in the ACC, hmmm .....

1) that game was before thanksgiving

2) technically Duke tied for #2.... but FSU beat us head to head so really it was #3

 

[JoePgh]

What I will say is that there are a number of coaches who do not coach the way Geno does in blow out situations. When Uconn is in one of those ridiculous games, most of the time the team specifically shuts down all transition offense and all pressure defense - they work on zone on defense and half court offense using 20+ seconds off the shot clock, as if it were an extension of a practice session. A lot of other teams and coaches just continue running their normal game offense with their bench players in - if they get a transition chance they take it. And final score to some extent depends on the other team's choice of offense - if they choose to run and take quick shots, then you get a lot more offensive possessions even if you are trying to take 20 seconds on each one.

"Most of the time", however, was not yesterday. I presume it was because of the long layoff prior to the game and the need to get the bench players some minutes in case they are needed, but Geno did not do any of the things you mentioned in yesterday's game. As noted, the Huskies scored 33 points in the final quarter. The Top 6 players played until almost the 5-minute mark approaching the end of the game (which was particularly surprising to me). Even after the bench players came in, there was no milking the shot clock or slowing the game down; it continued to be business as usual.

I think this is justifiable because they are playing in the NCAA tournament where there are no tomorrows, and there is a genuine need to keep the players as sharp as possible and prepare for any contingency.

And I do think it is hypocritical to criticize Baylor for doing the same thing, especially since there starters appear to have played fewer minutes yesterday than UConn's starters.

 

[Paesano]

Don't care about their blow out.

It is obvious that the NCAA did everything they could to increase the probability of us getting upset.